asked the Minister for Finance if he will state the policy or legislation under which State or semi-State companies are enabled to purchase holdings in private or public companies and in general the principles that give sanction to the propriety of such dealings by these State or semi-State companies.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Holdings by State and Semi-State Companies.
11.
: There is no general policy or legislation in regard to the purchase of holdings by State-sponsored companies in private or public companies. Each particular case is examined on its merits in the light of the contribution which it might be expected to make in achieving the objects of the State-sponsored company concerned.
: Is not the recent payment by Aer Lingus of £300,000 to Ryan Holdings nothing but a blatant and shameless attempt to give £300,000 to a member of Taca-Ryan hire firm —on whose board sits the Taoiseach's predecessor, Deputy Lemass?
: A gross misuse——
: Does he think it proper that they should be trying to sell Aer Lingus in America when they are giving £300,000 to a gentleman who interfered dangerously in the politics of the United States and made a fool of himself in Chicago a short time ago?
: This was a purely commercial decision indicated to the Minister for Transport and Power and the Minister gave his approval of it.
: Who is he?
Deputies
: Sack him.
(Interruptions.)
: Deputies should allow the Taoiseach to reply.
: Talk about arrogance in Government. What would happen if they were in Government?
: That is what it would be like if they were in power. They do not know how to behave. The Taoiseach knows how to behave.
(Interruptions.)
: Deputy Lindsay should allow Questions to continue.
: The Taoiseach knows how to behave. They do not.
: The rest of the front bench do not.
: Might I be permitted to continue? This decision was made by Aer Lingus or Aerlínte on commercial grounds. Because there was a big investment in new aircraft they needed the type of hotel accommodation that this company offered in order to help to sell seats on this aircraft. I want to say, too, that I knew when I approved this decision that allegations of this nature would be made across the floor of the House. I took the risk of facing these allegations because I felt that the best interests of Aer Lingus would be served and, therefore, the best interest of the economy of the country.
: Did any other group of hotels get an opportunity of tendering for what appears to be a plum?
: The Minister for Transport and Power will answer that in detail and I think he can assure the Deputy they had an opportunity.
: Is it not true that Ryans went into the hotel business only in the past couple of years, and that many other hotel groups were catering for tourists before Ryans, and that the reason why Ryan got it was that he is a member of Taca—that is all over the place—and that an ex-Taoiseach is also on the board?
: It is corrupt.
: That is completely untrue but it is an allegation of the type I expected. I knew the association of my predecessor with this company, and I knew there was political risk involved in accepting what was a good proposition for Aerlínte and for the country.
: The Taoiseach's political judgment has not been so good.
: Accepting all that the Taoiseach has said, would he not agree with me that in a transaction of that character, where an ex-Taoiseach is chairman of a company, and a prominent and influential supporter of the Government is a member of the board of directors, if standards are to be maintained in our public life, the appropriate course would be for the responsible Minister to come in here and move an estimate, or adopt some other appropriate Parliamentary procedure, notifying the House that on its merits a transaction of this kind is under contemplation and is recommended to Dáil Éireann? Otherwise a transaction of this kind is liable to be taken as a precedent for a series of transactions with which influential members of the Government Party are intimately and advantageously associated, which I think the Taoiseach will agree——
: We cannot have a speech on this.
: ——would undermine the whole standards of our public life. I want to ask the Taoiseach if in future circumstances analogous to those obtaining in the case complained of, the wiser course will be adopted of approaching Dáil Éireann for anterior rather than posterior acclamation.
: The position was in the first place that there was no obligation on Aerlínte to notify the Minister of the transaction. Nevertheless, they did notify him and he took the step of formally approving the transaction which was a stock exchange transaction and which perhaps had a certain legal involvement as a result of that. There was no vehicle whereby it could be brought to Dáil Éireann. This took place during the recess, and the Minister himself took the responsibility, with my knowledge, of approving the transaction. I can assure Deputies opposite, even though this assurance will hardly be accepted by them, that there was no question of political patronage or influence.
: Can the Minister say why the CIE chain of hotels was not considered having regard to the fact that they are semi-State concerns?
: The Minister will deal with that. Ryans had accommodation available—and will have more— at prices which are expected to suit passengers that Aer Lingus will be carrying——
(Interruptions.)
: Why will Deputies not wait for the answer?
: Can the Taoiseach say whether this arrangement will put hotels owned by Ryans in a more advantageous position vis-àvis the tourist traffic than the hotels which have catered for it for many years?
: I did not get that.
: Accepting what the Taoiseach says, is it not true that the production of the money means that they would not have had the money if they had not gone to the Minister? Where would they get the money?
: I am calling Question No. 12.