asked the Minister for Defence the regulations governing the issue of application forms in respect of free electricity and free radio licences where holders of IRA pensions are concerned.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - IRA Pensioners: Free Electricity and Radio Licences.
20.
There are no particular regulations governing the issue of these forms. All that is required is a request for the form by or on behalf of an intending applicant. The form is then sent direct to him.
Is the Minister aware—perhaps not—that I applied twice for application forms when people had asked me and that on both occasions I was refused? On the first occasion I was told that they would only be sent to applicants. I had applied for something like six. On the next occasion I applied for four and I was again refused.
That is correct. I am aware of that. Does the Deputy think that I am going to instruct the Department to send out forms in bulk to Deputies or anybody else?
But the Minister has said that there are no regulations governing this.
That is right.
If there are no regulations and if four people ask me for forms, am I not entitled to get them?
Is the Deputy losing his support in County Westmeath that he wants to go around with these forms in his pocket?
I am not afraid of losing my support anywhere, but if there are no regulations applying to the issue of forms—we can apply for application forms for land reclamation, for local government reconstruction grants et cetera and give them to the people—and if four people ask me to get forms for them I believe, since there are no rules and regulations against it, I am entitled to get them.
That is not happening with me. Each person will get his form from the Department of Defence as long as I am here as Minister for Defence.
How many did the Minister send to Fianna Fáil TDs?
I did not send any to Fianna Fáil TDs.
How many have they got?
They have not got them at all.
They have.
They have not got any.
(Interruptions.)
They certainly have.
That is not so.
(Interruptions.)
On a point of order, the Deputy is making an allegation that is not true and I think he should withdraw it.
No, I shall not. I know cases where they got them and filled them in.
That is not true. The Deputy has made an allegation that is not true and I know it is not true and he should withdraw it.
I have no intention of withdrawing it because I know the Fianna Fáil Deputies who got forms and filled them in.
Will the Deputy name the Fianna Fáil Deputies who got them?
I know Fianna Fáil Deputies who got them——
(Interruptions.)
Order.
Will the Deputy name them?
If I name them you will come along and——
(Interruptions.)
The Deputy will run away from that, in the same way that he ran away from the other allegation that he made against the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries.
I ran away from no allegation. What allegation did I run away from?
That does not arise.
(Interruptions.)
The Deputy made allegations in relation to the award of pensions in County Westmeath and he ran away from that also.
People got pensions in County Westmeath who never did a day's fighting. The only thing they did was to rob a few banks.
Will the Deputy allow questions to proceed?
On every occasion the Deputy made an allegation he ran away from it.
They got pensions through political influence, people who never did a day's fighting, and people who did fight got no pensions because they were the wrong political colour.
Order.
The Deputy would not know who did any fighting; he did none of it himself.
Question No. 21. It does not arise on these questions.
I was not even born at that time.
He pushed out of Westmeath the man who did the fighting.
Question No. 21. Will the Minister and the Deputy allow questions to continue?
The Deputy is making allegations for which there is no foundation and he is not gentleman enough to withdraw them.
Order.