asked the Minister for Education if he will make a statement concerning the current dispute between his Department and the Vocational Teachers Association.
269.
Written Answers. - Teachers Dispute.
268.
asked the Minister for Education if he will make a statement on the dispute between him and the Vocational Teachers Association and as to what steps are being taken to end this dispute.
270.
asked the Minister for Education what is the present position with respect to the secondary teachers salaries dispute.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 268, 269, and 270 together.
As what is involved in all this is essentially a conflict of claims on the part of three groups of teachers, I have refrained from making any statement which would exacerbate matters. I have done this notwithstanding efforts to present a picture which is entirely out of keeping with the facts. I still hesitate to say anything which might in any way delay a rational approach to the problems involved. However, I feel I owe it to the Members of this House to place certain facts before you.
Since 1957 there have been separate schemes of conciliation and arbitration for the three groups of teachers. These produced such a series of claims and counter claims and disunity in the teaching profession over the years that it was decided to set up a teachers salaries tribunal in 1967. This tribunal, which was presided over by Professor Louden Ryan, recommended a common basic scale of salary for all teachers, with additions for qualifications and posts of responsibility. The findings of the tribunal were accepted by the national teachers and the vocational teachers. The secondary teachers refused to accept and as part of the ultimate settlement of their claim the money available to them for posts of responsibility was allocated by way of allowances varying from £100 to £300 added to the common basic scale from the tenth point onwards.
The national and vocational teachers objected to this arrangement and claimed that these allowances were additions to the scale on a seniority basis rather than allowances for posts of responsibility. They took strike action in support of this view. When the matter was referred to Professor Ryan again he shared the view that the allowances as paid to secondary teachers were out of keeping with the concept of a common basic scale with additions for qualifications and for posts of responsibility. He recommended that the £100 to £300 allowances being paid to secondary teachers should be phased out and replaced by allowances for posts to which definite responsibilities would be assigned. He re-affirmed that the degree allowance should be paid in respect of recognised degrees and of qualifications comparable to degrees. He also recommended that the comparable qualifications should be worked out between the three teacher organisations and the Department.
These recommendations were accepted by the Government and by the national and Vocational teachers under conciliation agreements. The secondary teachers want to maintain the position of the allowances with normal percentage increases being paid on a seniority basis, without reference to the pattern of posts of responsibility recommended by the tribunal.
All three groups of teachers joined with representatives of the Department in a comparability committee to determine the qualifications which might be regarded as comparable to a degree for the purpose of the payment of the appropriate allowances. The Vocational Teachers Organisation claimed the £75 degree allowance for all non-degree vocational teachers irrespective of length of training course. The Secondary Teachers Association claimed £100 — the £75 degree allowance and £25 allowance which is being paid for the Higher Diploma in Education — in respect of all non-degree secondary teachers who had pursued a three year training course. When it became obvious in the course of the proceedings of the comparability committee, that no other group would agree to the £75 allowance being given to teachers of woodwork and metalwork, the representatives of the Vocational Teachers Organisation indicated that in the case of these teachers they would be prepared to be a party to an arrangement whereby the degree allowance would be confined to such of them as had passed the appropriate technological examinations at the advanced stage or who after 1970 would pass a special examination to be held under the auspices of a council of national awards. The representatives of the INTO and the Department also indicated that they would be prepared to subscribe to such an arrangement. In the case of domestic science teachers the Department's representatives were willing to agree to a payment of £25 in respect of the third year of training and to the holding of a special advanced examination for those who wished to qualify for the £75 payment.
Both the secondary teachers and the vocational teachers stated at the last meeting of the comparability committee that as the arrangements proposed in the case of the domestic science teachers were unacceptable to them they could not be a party to the arrangements proposed in the case of the teachers of woodwork and metalwork in the matter of payment for qualifications.
The agreement to which I have previously referred in the case of the Vocational Teachers Organisation was made on the 10th October, 1969 having been balloted on and accepted by the members of that organisation. It was accepted by the organisation as having disposed of all claims for responsibility allowances including those which were based on the allowances of £100 to £300 paid to secondary teachers.
The purported reactivating of the claim of £100 to £300 by the Vocational Teachers Organisation is in essence the creation of an unreal situation. The unreality will be seen from the fact that not alone would the purported claim involve the creation of posts of responsibility on the Ryan pattern in vocational schools but would also entail the giving of allowances on the lines of those given to secondary teachers. In fact, it would involve more than double the corresponding expenditure in secondary schools.
In an effort to repudiate the agreement of the 10th October, 1969 the organisation alleged that the failure of the Department to implement that agreement was tantamount to repudiation on the part of the Department. This does not bear examination. In fact, before the circular authorising its implementation could be issued the Department was requested to hold a series of meetings with representatives of the vocational education committees, the Chief Executive Officers Association and the Vocational Teachers Association. The general secretary of the latter association inquired on 18th December, 1969 whether it might be possible to issue the circular in final form before the end of January. It was obviously not considered at that time that there was any unreasonable delay in issuing it. In fact, it issued on 28th January.
As regards the secondary teachers I can only express the hope that they will come to see that the long-term professional and educational considerations in what is proposed for them far outweigh any temporary difficulties that might be experienced in the gradual process of creating real posts of responsibility for them which will carry payments commensurate with the tasks performed.
In relation to a suggestion that the agreement of March, 1969, with the secondary teachers has been broken their association is aware that it was written into that agreement that it was subject to review. The result of this review showed that the agreement could not continue to operate as it stood.
The call now from the Vocational Teachers Organisation for the appointment of a mediator simply ignores reality. Neither of the other two groups of teachers is prepared to agree even to discussing a claim based on seeking for vocational teachers allowances costing over double the corresponding amount for secondary teachers. Neither will they be a party to any agreement giving the degree allowance of £75 to all teachers of woodwork and metalwork. For me to consider offering mediation on these two matters would be open to such misconstruction that I could not contemplate such a course.
In relation to the overall position, a joint scheme of conciliation and arbitration is available for signature by all three groups of teachers. It is designed to cater for every group and to provide proper machinery for dealing with the problems which are at present creating so much unfortunate disunity in the teaching profession.
The Dáil adjourned at 5.10 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 10th February, 1970.