asked the Minister for External Affairs if he will make a statement regarding his recent discussion on European affairs with West German leaders in Bonn.
48.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Minister's Continental Discussions.
47.
asked the Minister for External Affairs if he will make a statement on his visit to Bonn on 4th February for discussions with members of the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany.
49.
asked the Minister for External Affairs whether he will further elaborate on his statement that formal contacts leading to EEC entry will commence by the middle of this year; and the nature of Chancellor Brandt's support for Irish entry.
50.
asked the Minister for External Affairs if he will make a statement concerning his recent visit to the EEC countries.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 47 to 50 together.
I visited Rome from the 28th to the 30th January where I was received by President Saragat and the Italian Foreign Minister, Signor Aldo Moro. I also met Signor Colombo, Minister of the Treasury and Signor Antoniozzi, Deputy Minister of Agriculture, and high officials. I visited Bonn from the 3rd to the 5th February where I was received by the President of the Federal German Republic, Dr. Gustav Heinemann, and had discussions with Federal German Chancellor, Dr. Willy Brandt, the Foreign Minister, Dr. Walter Scheel and State Secretary, Dr. Gunther Harkort, and senior officials.
In both countries I received warm assurances of support for our candidature for membership of the European Communities. I stressed the importance for Ireland of the simultaneous opening of negotiations on our application with that of Great Britain and our simultaneous accession to the communities. I also urged that there should be consultation on all matters of direct interest to Ireland arising in other negotiations. My views on these points were understood and accepted.
In both countries I found a general expectation that negotiations with the applicant countries will commence this summer.
Is it the Minister's opinion, following his talks with the German statesmen, that they support the idea of no early priority being given to British entry over our own?
The meetings I have had so far coincide with our view that we should commence together and finish together.
What was the duration of your talk?
I do not carry a watch, but I gather it was about 40 minutes.
How long will negotiations go on?
This is a matter of conjecture; obviously they will take some time; difficulties and problems will arise. I have given the guess of 1972, more or less.
Other reputations have been lost in prophecy.
Is the Minister aware it may be proposed that the transitional period will be shortened to three or four years as distinct from the five to six years which has hitherto been generally contemplated? Did he raise this matter with the Italians and Germans and what opinions were expressed on this subject?
No decision has been made about transitional periods. My anxiety was that the balance of advantages in arranging these transitional periods would not be too much in favour of one country or another and would favour our country if possible. The actual time was not mentioned. I do not think it would be wise to say how far the thinking has gone because it has not been completed. What I have been trying to say is that the advantages of the transitional period, whether it is longer in one sector or shorter in another, should not be in our favour too much. I have been seeking to make sure that we would gain whatever advantages could be gained, but there has to be a balance of advantages and these have to be negotiated.
The House appreciates this. Is the Minister aware of this recent report? Is the Minister having inquiries made as to whether, in fact, thinking is shifting to a shorter period which could be more advantageous to our agriculture but would certainly create more problems for our industry? Would the Minister investigate this?
I have very concerned with the transitional period. If the transitional period, as the Deputy says, is a certain number of years for all sectors and for all countries that would not create a major problem for us but different types of transitional periods would create a big problem. The people I have met to date have not come to their final conclusions on what the transitional periods should be, whether they should be equal for all countries and whether they should be for all sectors. I am aware that disadvantages would arise if there was a variation in the transitional period.
Does that apply to the commission as well as to the individual country?
The commission's last opinion was that transitional periods for all countries and for all sectors should be the same.
Does the Minister not feel that five to six years would be preferable to four years for us?
If the Deputy reflects on it——
I have.
——the actual time is not as important as the possibility of a variation in, say, agriculture and industry from country to country.
The Minister has just said that there will not be a variation for all countries.
Deputy Cosgrave was talking about the commissions.
Accepting that the present position is a single period for all countries and all sectors would it not be better for us if it was five to six years instead of four?
We shall have to decide what will be to our best advantage.
Does the Minister not feel it is time we began to think about it?
We have thought about it.
Will the Minister's thought or policy on this matter be incorporated in the forthcoming White Paper?
I do not think we should——
The Minister does not think we should what?
——have it in the White Paper. I think Deputies, who have practical experience, will appreciate that there are areas where you keep your cards close to your chest.
We have kept all ours in our back trouser pocket. I am talking about our whole official policy; it is a mystery between the Minister for External Affairs and the Taoiseach.
I do not think it would be wise, even though it would be desirable, to put in a White Paper for publication, everything——
We should know something anyway.
——we intend to negotiate.
Question No. 51 to the Minister for Finance. We cannot debate these questions all evening.
The Minister should give the House the benefit of it.
The Deputy is worried about something that has not appeared yet. I think he is anticipating the fact that he will not be able to say anything about it when it comes out.