asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he will state clearly the policy of the Government in relation to the future of the dairying industry; and what instructions, if any, have been issued to the officers of the advisory services of his Department regarding milk production.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Dairying Industry.
26.
The Government's policy in relation to the dairying industry is fully set out in the Third Programme for Economic and Social Development, and the duties of officers of my Department engaged on advisory work are in accordance with that policy.
Would the Minister give us some information as to what the long term policy of the Government is in relation to the dairying industry because dairy farmers and the farming organisation a siderable doubt as to the policy of the Government even over the next two or three years.
Could I just say that every utterance and every action of this Government in these recent years and, indeed, for years past, would give an assurance to the dairying industry that their future will be at least as good as their present and, perhaps, a lot brighter and that there is no basis for the suggestions by some inspired people that the dairying industry is finished or that it is on its way out or that the Government are trying to kill it. This is totally and absolutely the reverse of what the Government, in fact, are endeavouring to do and are doing very successfully at this time because, as I indicated in reply to Questions Nos. 25 and 27, in this year we are very likely to exceed the targets set as many as five years ago for milk out-turn by the dairying industry. We are most likely to do it and if anybody wanted to bet on it, I would say that he could safely do so in favour of its turning up. More than that nobody can say in regard to the likely out-turn of milk in a given year but we are on target, in fact, slightly above, in the present year and we are likely to be above it next year and that target was not set yesterday or the day before. It was set over five years ago when milk out-turn was somewhere in the region of 300 million gallons a year instead of the 500 million odd that it has reached in the meantime. This should be an assurance, and I hope it is taken as an assurance by the dairying industry, that we are with it, as we have been right over these years in building it up to what it is and that its future is as good now as it may have been seen to be five or two years or even one year ago.
May I ask the Minister a question? If it is increased to 500 million gallons annually, what will the cost to the Exchequer be in that setting?
I did not catch that.
What will the increased cost to the Exchequer be in the event of the projection rising to, say, 550 million gallons annually? I am asking what the increased cost will be in terms of Exchequer subsidy.
Which year?
Annually. Say, for next year.
Annually from what to what? I am not trying to trip the Deputy up.
How much do you expect to put into the Estimate for the subsidy next year? Tell us.
I am afraid I still do not know what the question is.
The Minister does not know what it is about.
Might I ask the Minister one more question in relation to the future of the dairying industry? Would the Minister not think, in view of the fact that we may possibly be entering the EEC in the near future, that it is unwise to penalise efficient milk producers at this stage as he is doing under his new price structure?
May I answer Deputy Barry Desmond, even though I did not quite understand his question which was further confused by Deputy O'Donovan?
I will assist the Minister. I should like to know, very bluntly, how much is likely to be given in the next Budget in terms of anticipated increases of Exchequer subsidy towards milk production.
This will depend entirely on how successful our selling will be on the international market.
The Minister is making projections and said that he is on target.
Yes, but these projections are only carried ultimately in the Budget which we have all got to wait for; otherwise we will be giving away the secrets in advance. We cannot do this, as the Deputy should know.
I do not want to embarrass the Minister. Would he put a figure on the subsidy for increased milk?
I have given the Deputy the real answer to this, that the cost to the Exchequer in any given year is determined as much, and, indeed, more, by the international marketing situation than it is by the actual rise in our total production. This is as true this year as it was in any other year and it will be true in the future. Nobody can put a finger on it and say it will cost us £X.
May I ask one question? Is it true that 80 per cent of this subsidy goes to seven counties and that the rest of the country gets nothing out of it? Is that true or false?
Is the Deputy objecting to the dairying industry being supported?
I asked the Minister a question. If he does not answer it will he shut up?
Hear, hear.
Deputy Coughlan will be here in a minute. He will fix you.
Is it not true that 80 per cent of it goes to seven counties?
Will Deputies please allow Questions to proceed? We have reached only 28 out of 120 Questions.
Will the Minister answer one question in regard to EEC membership?
Deputies have had questions down for weeks and they have not got a reply yet. I will allow Deputy O'Donnell one further supplementary.
I wish to repeat the question I put earlier. In view of our probable entry into the EEC, does the Minister think it right to penalise the more efficient dairy farmers in the country? Is this price structure not aimed definitely at the most efficient producers?
I reject entirely that there is any penalising of anybody in the milk industry. I particularly reject the suggestion that any penalty falls on the efficient farmers. On the contrary, they have been helped to that high degree of efficiency by the kindness and consideration of successive Fianna Fáil Governments during the years. Fianna Fáil have built the efficient farmer up so that his net profit is greater than he ever thought of enjoying in the disastrous year of the Coalition, 1956, when cows as well as people were leaving. A real difficulty here has been a problem which elsewhere has been regarded as being impossible of solution. We have been trying to get more cows while, at the same time, because of the depressed nature of dairy produce and the market therefor, we have been trying not to have too much milk. This is a rather difficult question and the Government have been and are doing everything possible.
Is there any milk producer getting an increase?
There are 109,500 out of 112,000 who are suffering no reduction. There are 90,000 who have been positively increased.
You are helping up the big milk farmer, the big producer.
I am talking of our giving support to milk where it is most needed.