asked the Minister for Local Government if, in view of the statement of the Cork City Manager on 9th March 1970 that a married man with four children of school-going age moving into the largest type newly-built Cork Corporation house would be paying a total of £3 15s Od a week, £2 13s Od of this being rent and the remainder rates, he will indicate, on an estimated basis if necessary, comparative figures under the current rent systems in operation by Dublin Corporation, Dún Laoghaire Borough Corporation, Dublin County Council, and Waterford, Drogheda, Sligo and Galway Corporations.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Local Authority Rents and Rates.
15.
The income of the man to which this statement refers would be about £20 a week or more. The fixing of rents for new houses is a matter for the local authorities concerned in accordance with a rent scheme of which I approve. I indicated to local authorities in circular letter H.7/69 of 20th February, 1969, the general principles I am prepared to follow in approving schemes.
The rent to be charged for a house in accordance with these principles would vary according to how the income is made up, the number of children, cost and standard of the house etc. In general, I may say, however, that a man with a wife and four dependent children earning £20 a week would pay approximately £2 10s a week in rent, in accordance with these principles, for the sort of house which is now costing about £8 a week to provide and maintain in Cork. The rent in Cork at lower income levels or where the income is made up, in part, from the income of subsidiary earners, could be lower than that calculated in accordance with the circular letter.
I have not got comparable figures for the amount of rates in the different areas. However, these are not a payment for housing and they—and the services for which they are paid—vary so much from area to area, that comparisons would be misleading unless they were done in depth.
Does the Minister not consider it would be a rather useful exercise if these comparative figures were brought out generally and made available to the House? Perhaps the Department might try to get this data for people?
I do not think the data would be useful because of the variation in services from area to area.
Does the Minister not agree that the reason for the spectacular increase in rents is simply that, where the Minister and his predecessor formerly paid a subsidy on the total cost of a house, now the Minister is merely paying a subsidy on £1,650, or half the cost of the house, and the remainder must be made up from the rent or rates?
There has not been a spectacular increase in rents and what increase there has been is due to the increased income of the people in these houses. As Deputy Donegan should know, there has been a substantial increase in the amount of subsidy paid by taxpayers and ratepayers towards housing and, as the Deputy also knows, the subsidy element in this country is a lot higher than it is in socialist England.
Does the Minister not agree that there has not been a great increase in taxpayers' money in the subsidy to houses? The only increase in the last seven years has been from £1,450 maximum to £1,650 whereas the cost of the house has increased from £1,700 to £3,500? Does the Minister not agree that the whole kernel of the trouble is that he is paying subsidy on only half the cost of the house?
In my opening and concluding statements I gave the Deputy the figures for the increase in subsidy both from the ratepayers and taxpayers. It is there that the spectacular increase is taking place.
I am calling Question No. 16.
There has been no spectacular increase from taxpayers.
If Deputy Donegan wants the ratepayers and taxpayers to continue to subsidise at an ever-increasing rate houses for people, who in many cases are financially in a better position to pay for their housing than those who are providing the subsidy, that is a matter for him.
I am calling Question No. 16.
Deputy Donegan is arguing that this is what should be done.
16.
asked the Minister for Local Government what information is made available to his Department by local authorities on rents and rates; and how the approximate totals for rents and, especially, rates are calculated.
The abstracts of accounts of local authorities which are submitted to my Department after the close of each financial year include details of the amounts collected in rents and rates. A number of interim periodic returns are also submitted. The totals are obtained by aggregation of the relevant figures.
Is it true that the cost of the house or flat is the point on which calculations are based? Therefore, if a flat costs £6,000 do the Minister and his staff work out the rent of the premises on this basis? The cost of housing at Ballymun per flat or per house is greater than the cost of a corporation house. If the Minister's Department make a mistake regarding the purchase of land or in the construction of huge blocks of flats rather than houses does the tenant have to pay for this mistake?
It is quite clear it is not done that way. The maximum rent fixed bears very little relation to the economic cost of providing the accommodation.
17.
andMr. Corish asked the Minister for Local Government whether it is necessary for him, before approving of rent increases submitted by local authorities, to be given full information as to the number of people paying minimum rent, the number of people paying maximum rent and the number of people not paying rent; and, if not, what information he requires before either approving or rejecting local authority rent increase applications.
It is not necessary. Local authorities are by law responsible for the administration of their houses. They are not required to submit to me proposals for increasing fixed rents, or for increases in the maxima of differential rent scales by 5/- a week or less in any year to meet increases in maintenance, administration, insurance and other costs for which the authority are liable.
If proposals involving other changes in differential rents are submitted, I require information as to the number of houses affected, an estimate of the implications of the revision on the local authority's finances and the estimated number of tenants whose rents will be decreased, increased or will remain unchanged and any other information which I may consider relevant to the particular case.
18.
asked the Minister for Local Government whether he is satisfied that his request to Dublin Corporation to introduce a scheme whereby the weekly receipts for tenants would indicate separately the basic rents and the rates being paid, has been complied with; and whether he proposes to take any steps to ensure that confusion arising from non-compliance with his request is erased.
I would refer the Deputy to my reply to Question No. 32 on 25th February, 1970. As I stated in that reply, the detailed operation of their rent schemes is, by law, a matter for the local authority.
Following my requirement that the existing differential rent scales should be amended as soon as practicable to indicate separately the basic rent and the rates in each case, Dublin Corporation now notify each tenant of the rateable valuation of his dwelling so that he can calculate the rates payable on it. I am not satisfied that this is a sufficient compliance with my requirement and the local authority has been made aware of this. They are being pressed to comply fully with the requirement.
I might, however, point out that the amount paid by tenants on the minimum and lower points of the differential rent scale is, in fact, insufficient to cover the rates so they are paying no rent and only a fraction of the amount due for rates.