asked the Minister for Justice if he will make a statement on the sharp rise in indictable offences in the Dublin area as revealed in the report of the Garda Commissioner recently published.
67.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Crime Report.
66.
asked the Minister for Justice if in the light of the recently published report of the Garda Commissioner on crime, he will substantially increase the strength of the Garda Síochána.
68.
asked the Minister for Justice what steps he proposes to take to deal with the increasing crime rate.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 66, 67 and 68 together.
While the crime report for the year ended 30th September, 1969, was only recently published, the salient figures from it were already known and were published from time to time. In particular the position as disclosed by the 1969 report was known and fully adverted to in the fairly comprehensive reply given by my predecessor on 3rd March last to a similar question and to which I would refer the Deputies.
An increase in crime is worldwide There is a wide variety of views, even amongst experts, as to what the reasons for this may be and possibly the only point on which there is agreement is that the increase is not due to any single cause.
The deployment of the Garda force and its equipment is under continuous study in the first instance by the research and planning unit of the Garda Síochána, and changes are being made in an effort to secure maximum efficiency. About two-thirds of all indictable crimes known to the gardaí are committed in the Dublin metropolitan area and the present strength of the Garda there is over 2,300. The detection rate in the rest of the country is very high, averaging 80 per cent, and the change in the distribution of the force in favour of increasing the strength in Dublin and in other urban areas will have to continue.
There is no doubt whatsoever that crime could be reduced, at least to some extent, by an increase in the Garda force, but the cost of even a marginal reduction effected by an increase in strength would be great. I certainly do not rule out the possibility of an increase in strength, which would have to be relatively large to have, of itself, much effect, but the cost to the taxpayer would be quite considerable. At present the cost on the Exchequer is about £31 a week in pay and pensionability alone for a garda with 10 years service. I am, therefore, seeking every reasonable alternative including the provision of additional mechanisation and radio equipment before asking for an increase that would mean a very heavy additional burden on the taxpayer.
As my predecessor indicated in reply to a supplementary question on 3rd March, an important factor in recent times in relation to Garda strength has been the necessity to supervise demonstrations of one kind or another, some of them unruly, some perhaps deliberately intended to tax the resources of the Garda, but most of them, even when peaceful, requiring the attendance of large numbers of gardaí whose presence would be required if violence broke out.
Would the Minister not agree that it is rather futile to seek to make demonstrators the scapegoat for the increase in crime in the last year? Further, would he not consider a detection rate of 61 per cent this year as against 66 per cent in 1963 very disquieting? Would he further consider that his policy of bringing gardaí into Dublin at the rate at which they are at present being moved in here unwise in view of the fact that last year there was an increase in crime of 17 per cent outside Dublin as against 9 per cent in Dublin?
Would the Minister say if the returns for Dublin show that there are certain areas in the city which have a higher crime rate than others and would he therefore try to ensure that in these problem areas of the city, gardaí would co-operate more with welfare and youth organisations in an effort to prevent crime rather than to detect it later?
In reply to Deputy Moore's question, the figures provided to me by the commissioner in his annual report deal with the Dublin metropolitan area as a whole and do not differentiate between areas in Dublin. However, if the Deputy is interested in particular areas presumably I will be able to obtain that information for him. In regard to the suggestion of co-operation between the gardaí and local people in an effort to prevent crime, this has always been the policy of the gardaí, which I very strongly support, because I realise and appreciate quite clearly that ultimately the most effective way of combating crime is to stamp it out before it happens rather than be faced with the situation of having to apprehend people who have committed crime. As the Deputy is probably aware, there is a very successful juvenile liaison scheme in operation in the city of Dublin whereby gardaí co-operate with youth clubs and organisations of various kinds.
With regard to Deputy Bruton's questions, he described the detection rate, which is now 61 per cent over the country as a whole, as poor and disturbing. The fact is that this detection rate is one of the highest in the world.
But it has been falling.
Yes, but only marginally, due to the vast increase in crime in the city of Dublin, because two-thirds of indictable crime in this country is committed in the Dublin metropolitan area. Outside Dublin the detection rate of indictable crime is 80 per cent, which, I can say without fear of contradiction, is the highest figure of any police force in the world. It is a well-known fact that in a large area such as Dublin the detection rate must necessarily be lower than in rural areas or small urban areas. The most effective way, as I pointed out in reply to the questions, that I can deal with the problem in Dublin is by continuing the policy of my predecessor to try to increase Garda strength as much as possible in the large urban areas and in Dublin in particular.
With this in mind I have directed that a number of steps be carried out. One of the most important ones which have just started is the recruitment of 100 clerical assistants this year to work in Garda stations. Up to now there has been what seems to me the rather ridiculous situation that police officers who were trained to do police work and not to do clerical or secretarial work have had to spend their entire day very often typing with one or perhaps two fingers reports which a trained typist could do in half an hour. The effect of this will be to put 100 extra men on the beat throughout the country. I propose to recruit a further 50 clerical assistants next year.
Various other efforts are being made to increase the number of gardaí on police work proper and to cut down the number of gardaí involved in a great deal of non-police duties in which they became involved over the years. I am at present conducting negotiations with several other Departments with a view to trying to free the gardaí from such work.
Since the Minister referred to demonstrations, would he confirm that the march of those desperadoes, the Maoists, consisting of 30 people, was supervised by two gardaí?
I do not know which particular march or which particular Maoists the Deputy has in mind.
The Minister did refer to demonstrations.
Not just Maoists.
Would the Minister agree that, despite the detection rate in rural areas of which he is justly proud, there was last year an increase of 17 per cent in crime in the rural areas as against 9 per cent in the cities?
The Deputy has stated that already.
The Minister listed the ways in which he could supplement garda strength in the Dublin metropolitan area. He did not say if the closure of stations in rural areas was still the policy?
As the Deputy is probably aware, the research and planning unit of the force is examining the position of all rural stations and where the commissioner is satisfied that an area which is served by an existing station can be effectively policed from adjoining stations, usually in the public interest he will decide that either the station be closed or the strength reduced.
Is the Minister aware that some gardaí do not agree with that?
I might add that it has been proved that in the vast majority of cases where stations have been closed over the past two years there has been no increase in crime. The commissioner has given me an assurance that in any case where a station has been closed and there is an increase in crime he will take steps to reopen it.
(Interruptions.)
The Chair will allow no further questions. Deputies are engaging in a discussion on the Department of Justice.
(Interruptions.)
I wish to give notice that I wish to raise this matter on the Adjournment.