asked the Minister for Health the composition of the Health Boards Staffing Consultative Council; the number of times it has met since its formation and the subjects discussed.
7.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Health Boards Staffing Consultative Council.
6.
asked the Minister for Health if he has received the report of the management consultants on the extent to which the work of the new health boards should be transferred from county to regional level; and if he proposes to consult with staff and local interests prior to the issue of his own recommendations on the subject to the health boards.
8.
asked the Minister for Health if he is in a position to give assurances that members of health authority staffs will not have to move against their wishes to work in towns other than those they are at present working in, as a result of the regionalisation of the health services.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 8 together.
There are 18 members on the Health Boards Staffing Consultative Council, made up of ten staff representatives, four representatives of the City and County Managers Association, one officer of the Department of Local Government and three officers of my Department. Since its formation, the council have met on four occasions. The main subjects discussed to date were a draft scheme of removal expenses and draft directions on the conditions of service which will apply to officers and servants of health boards.
I have not yet received the report of the management consultants which will, inter alia, deal with the extent to which work should continue to be carried out at a local level. I propose to circulate copies of the report to the staff organisations and unions concerned when I am sending the report to members of the health boards. There will be full consultations with these organisations and unions about the implementation of the recommendations in the report.
On the question of the possible movement of health staffs, I am not at this stage in a position to give the assurances which the Deputy seeks. Until decisions have been taken on the recommendations which will be made by the management consultants, it is not possible to say what staff movements will arise from the administrative reorganisation. However, I want to make it clear that it would not be my wish that anyone should have to move unless it is absolutely necessary and I would hope that, as far as possible, those not wishing to move could be accommodated by continuing to work in their present location as officers of the health board or by remaining as local authority officers on other work in their present centres.
Are any members of the staff who are themselves likely to be transferred on the Health Boards Staffing Consultative Council?
I could not say that. We have had a firm of independent consultants, whom I am glad to say have established the most satisfactory relations not only with the health authorities but with the staffs of the health authorities. It is inevitable that a certain number of staff are bound to move. As I have indicated in my reply I hope this will be as small as possible.
I am asking the Minister if there are any members of the staffs on the health boards? The Minister said there were ten staff representatives. Can he state whether they are members of the staffs?
They are representatives of the unions looking after the staffs.
Could the Minister say if it is proposed to publish the results of the study by the management consultants prior to issuing his own recommendations so that he may have the reaction of other interested parties?
Yes, the reports will be published.
Does the Minister mean prior to the issue of his recommendations?
Yes.
Would the Minister not agree that both he and his predecessor assured me in answer to a question in this House that the option to remain in their local areas would be given to each member of the health authority? Does the Minister not remember making that statement in this House and also that his predecessor made a similar statement? Would the Minister like me to supply him with the quotation from the Official Report?
My predecessor was not aware of the details of what would happen.
The Minister himself made the statement.
The Deputy had better supply me with the quotation. I do not remember committing myself completely. There are bound to be some changes when you reduce 27 health authorities to eight regional health boards. The conditions of service of people in the Civil Service and local authorities are such that they can provide for transfer but nevertheless there must be compensation for removal from one place to another. The Deputy is aware of that fact. You could not run either a central civil authority or a local authority unless there was some provision for transfer for officers. I shall be as helpful as I can in this but I do not believe I committed myself completely. I would be very much surprised if I did.
I can supply the Minister with a copy of his reply. I am absolutely sure about this; I supplied it to the local papers a few weeks ago because a similar statement was made by somebody else.
I should certainly like to see the terms. I might even have to take it back.
I would be glad if I thought the Minister was now saying he would take it back.
It is inconceivable that there could be a Civil Service organisation in the world, whether local or national, where there could not be provision for transfer.
I can supply the Minister with his statement.
I should be glad if the Deputy would refer it to me.
We cannot continue with this question all afternoon. Deputy Tully is monopolising questions.
I asked one supplementary question and I was entitled to do this.
The Deputy has paid no attention. He cannot monopolise Question Time.
We are only at Question No. 8; the Minister has spoken for 20 minutes.
At least it is a tribute to the Minister's honesty.
I am not being particularly honest. I have been spelling this out on the whole basis of the health boards.
In the context of Fianna Fáil the Minister is honest.
Nonsense.
In connection with the Minister's statement regarding the management consultants, has he yet any idea what the administration of the new regional boards will cost?
I have not.
Can the Minister state who are the management consultants?
McKinsey.