asked the Minister for Justice if he will state the cost to the State, per week, of the extra bank protection duty being carried out by Garda.
71.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Bank Protection Duty.
70.
asked the Minister for Justice if he will (a) give the number of gardai throughout the country who are engaged in bank protection duty; and (b) what steps are taken to carry out their duty while this extra duty is being performed.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 70 and 71 together.
As indicated previously in answer to parliamentary questions, the extent of any protection to be provided for the banks by the Garda is a matter for determination by the Commissioner and all details of protection must, in the interests of security, be treated as confidential.
Surely the Minister is not asking the House to accept that he has no responsibility for the numerous gardaí who have to stand outside private concerns all day guarding private money. Would the Minister not try to give an explanation as to what is happening and why these gardaí are being made to stand outside the banks? What is happening about the duties they would normally carry out? Will the Minister not agree there are now 1,000 gardaí fewer than there were ten years ago and, that being so, does he not think these private concerns should make other arrangements to have their money protected? Will we have the supermarkets and everybody else claiming the same protection?
It is not correct to say there are 1,000 fewer gardaí now than there were ten years ago. I would like to make it clear that protection duties, whether of life or property, are part of the normal functions and duties of the Garda Síochána. In certain circumstances more attention is quite obviously given to certain places or institutions while those certain circumstances exist.
Would the Minister be in a position to state what number are engaged in this work? Would he also slate why these gardaí are involved in bank protection duty and, as Deputy Tully wanted to know, are the duties they would otherwise be discharging being carried out? Have extra gardaí in fact been taken into the force to carry out the work?
The gardaí on bank protection duty are by no means exclusively on that duty.
They are able to be in two places at the one time?
When a garda patrols a beat which includes a bank, a post office or similar institution, he is instructed to give particular attention to the institution if it is felt by his superior officers that this is necessary.
All over the country, in every town and city, we see a garda standing all day outside a bank——
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Every bank has at least one garda outside it. If the whole town were being knocked down or stolen, this garda cannot leave the place. I am not being unhelpful to the Minister. Would it not be an idea if the Minister discussed this with his colleague, the Minister for Defence, to see if some of those duties could not be carried out by armed military, if we have reached the stage that we cannot leave a bank open without a garda outside it? In view of the increasing crime figures in this city and in this country, it is ridiculous that gardaí should be left standing all day in the cold outside a private institution. The banks are not State owned.
I cannot accept that gardaí are expected to stand outside a bank all day. They are in the vicinity of banks while the banks are open.
Do the banks pay any money for this protection?
No.
If any private individual asks for the same protection he has to pay for it. Furthermore, supermarkets and other businesses have to pay a firm—Securicor, and so on—but the banks are getting this for nothing.
The Garda authorities have a duty to protect places or institutions which they feel are particularly vulnerable at a certain time. I am not going to quarrel with the Commissioner's judgment that, at present, banks are in need of protection. It is part of the duties and functions of the police in this country and in every country to afford that protection.
Is the Minister telling the House that it is the Garda Commissioner who has taken this decision and not the Government?
With my consent. I do not lightly interfere with the professional judgment of the Commissioner or of the senior Garda officers.
Do not cod us. Is it not a Government decision?
It is not a Government decision.
Is the Minister not aware that, from time immemorial, it has been the custom in the Dublin Metropolitan Division, which is still kept separate from the rest of the Garda Síochána, that any person who applies for Garda protection of this sort has to pay for it? This is done regularly at football matches, and so on.
Of course. It is the same with them all except the banks. Why do the banks not pay for it?
Protection is given to banks in the public interest. The gardaí feel it is necessary. Do you want to see the banks robbed? Do you want to see more people murdered?
I want to see the banks paying for the protection they are receiving just as everybody else who gets it has to pay for it.
You want to see more people murdered in this country. That is what you want. It is the duty of the gardaí to protect human life. As Minister for Justice, I shall do that. If you want to see these people murdered——
The Minister is going off his head.
I want to see internment for the Minister for Justice.
(Interruptions.)
Order. Order.
Deputy O'Connell rose.
Will Deputy O'Connell please resume his seat? The Chair would point out that we cannot have a discussion at Question Time on any particular matter. Question Time is for the purpose of eliciting information and not for carrying on a discussion, sometimes acrimonious, on this matter.
The Minister is talking about unarmed gardaí outside banks. He does not give a damn what happens to them.
Does the Minister think it desirable that, while banks are being protected, the homes of private individuals are being broken into and there is a considerable degree of vandalism and housebreaking in areas? Does the Minister consider it is preferable to give priority to the banks and to allow people's houses to be broken into and people beaten up? Is that right?
There is no question of giving priority to one over another. The gardaí give priority to those places where the needs are greatest at a particular time.
Question No. 72.