Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 15 Dec 1970

Vol. 250 No. 7

Committee on Finance. - Finance (No. 2) Bill, 1970 : Committee Stage (Resumed) and Final Stages.

Debate resumed on the following amendment:

To add to the section a new sub-section as follows:—

(2) The provisions of the foregoing subsection shall not apply in any case where it is shown to the satisfaction of the Revenue Commissioners that a caravan (including a mobile home) has been or is being purchased by or on behalf of a person either as a permanent home or as a temporary home while such person is awaiting housing or rehousing.

—(Deputy Kavanagh).

Mr. J. Lenehan

It is very wrong that taxation should be imposed on any material used in the construction of houses. It is even more wrong to impose taxation on caravans and mobile homes. Nobody knows more about housing than I do. Instead of putting an imposition on these things, we should do everything possible to give people an incentive towards providing their own homes. I can see no reason why we should not do that. There are fairly good houses in my county, but in places like west Limerick housing conditions are very poor. In times of by-elections one sees the real conditions. By all means let the Minister tax luxury articles. No one can object to that. There are luxury fittings in houses. Some lady paid £600 for a two-seater bath. I would have no objection to taxing that lady.

We are the first who offered to pay the full cost of housing the itinerants and I congratulate Fianna Fáil on that policy. It is vital that people should be provided with homes. I go the whole way with the Minister in taxing luxuries

Mr. Tully

This is not a tax on luxury goods. It is a tax on a necesity. The Minister for Local Government is reported as saying that he is prepared to pay the full cost of housing the itinerants. That is not true; he is not prepared to pay the full cost of building houses for itinerants or for anybody else. I got that straightened out yesterday in reference to something being done by my own county council. Different interpretations can be put on words, but this is not the place to take that up now and so I shall not develop the particular argument. If that were true, then the same thing should be done for those who are unable to provide houses for themselves. I appeal to the Minister to use his ingenuity in trying to bring in an amendment in the Seanad which will cover the points we make. I think the Minister realises from what was said on this side of the House and what was said from his own benches that the problem is a serious one. We all believe there is a solution to it and I ask the Minister now if he would be prepared to bring in an amendment to cover the points we made. He himself said he believed the problem should be dealt with and, if he is prepared to bring in an amendment, then we are prepared to withdraw our amendment.

Mr. Colley

I am quite prepared to do the best I can, but I do not want the Deputy to be misled because I might well come up with the same situation.

Mr. Tully

We will never let the Minister forget it if he does.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the amendment withdrawn?

Dr. O'Donovan

I should like a more definite assurance from the Minister.

An Ceann Comhairle

I understand the amendment is withdrawn and, if that is so, we cannot discuss it.

Dr. O'Donovan

If the Chair does not mind my saying so, what my colleague said was that, if we got a definite assurance from the Minister, we would withdraw the amendment. I do not think we got that definite assurance. I was for a long enough period of my life an administrator and I know all the difficulties administrators can put up in a situation like this. I appeal to the Minister to be slightly more definite. I remember a promise I got on one occasion from one of the Minister's colleagues; it did not work out and that is why I am concerned about this now. Since there is so much talk about conscience, I would like the Minister to say to me that he, in his own conscience, will think about this matter and, if he does that, I will be prepared to withdraw the amendment.

Mr. Colley

If I understand the Deputy aright, yes.

Mr. Clinton

How are we to know?

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Section 3 put and agreed to.

Sections 4 and 5, inclusive, agreed to.

SECTION 6.

Question proposed: "That section 6 stand part of the Bill."

Dr. O'Donovan

This seems to be a new idea. I have not seen it before in a Finance Bill. I assume it has something to do with operating in circumstances that have not been a fact so far in this country. How can the circumstances arise in which he would have to pay, so to speak, some token money? It is rather like an option.

Mr. Colley

The Deputy is right in thinking that the circumstances were such as had not arisen before. The circumstances were the closure of banks and the possibility that, as a result, the Exchequer might be left in certain circumstances without the necessary resources. A stand-by credit to cover this was negotiated. It was in those circumstances the commitment fee became payable.

Dr. O'Donovan

I was thinking of a different situation. I thought the Minister was providing that, if we wanted to borrow money on the continent, we would have to pay some deposit, so to speak. I am quite satisfied with the Minister's explanation.

Question put and agreed to.

Sections 7 and 8 agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.

An Ceann Comhairle

This Bill is certified a Money Bill in accordance with Article 22 of the Constitution.