asked the Taoiseach if he will arrange that Cabinet and other official records will be made available after a 30 year period so that these documents may be available to historians and other interested persons.
4.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - State Documents.
3.
asked the Taoiseach if he will take steps to have Cabinet papers and other confidential State documents of interest to historians made available after a 30 year period.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 4 together.
First of all, it is necessary that we should be quite clear about what we mean by "Cabinet and other official records".
The official records in the archives of my Department, the most important of which are the official records of the Cabinet Secretariat, can, broadly, be classified under two headings: Government and Cabinet Minutes on the one hand and official files on the other.
The Government and Cabinet Minutes are records of decisions taken at Government and Cabinet meetings and do not, ordinarily, include any details of the documentation and the discussions leading up to such decisions. The official files in the archives of my Department contain, where relevant to the subject-matter of the file, the memoranda on the basis of which Government and Cabinet decisions are taken, as well as papers dealing with the general functions and work of the Department.
Secondly, I should like to make it clear that it has always been the policy of my Department to be as liberal as reasonably possible in the matter of the making of official papers available to historians. In connection with the celebration of the Golden Jubilee of the Rising of 1916, it was decided in 1966 that the official papers in the State Paper Office would be thrown open up to 1916—an extension of the previous open period, which stopped at 1895, of 21 years. Shortly afterwards, I announced in this House on the 8th February, 1967, that the Irish documents relating to the Anglo-Irish Treaty negotiations of 1921 would be made available for inspection, to bona fide historians.
I have been giving consideration, for some time past, to the extent to which we might further liberalise access to the records in the archives of my Department. I have now decided that a copy of the Cabinet Minutes of the First and Second Dála, covering the period from April, 1919 to April, 1922, and all the original Dáil Cabinet files and other records in the archives of my Department for the period, should be transferred to the State Paper Office, where they will be available for inspection on the usual conditions.
I do not think that we should go beyond this for the present. The years from 1922 onwards—especially the earlier years—cover a particularly controversial period of our domestic history, and I think it might be better if the Cabinet records in regard to that period were not open to public inspection for some further time.
So far as official records other than those in the custody of my Department are concerned, I am making arrangements to have the position examined.
Is the Taoiseach aware that on 28th February, 1968, the then Taoiseach informed this House that the release of any papers more than 30 years old "Will have to depend upon the Lord Chancellor in Britain"? Now that the Lord Chancellor has released these papers why are the Government reneging on the promise they then made that they would release them if the Lord Chancellor——
Surely that question referred solely to the release of papers in the possession of the British Government. I cannot read anything else into it.
No, it did not.
Within the terms of the reply which the Taoiseach has given, is the Taoiseach aware that in certain circumstances papers have been published in Britain dealing with matters that had been the subject of discussions between the Irish and the British Governments and, in cases of that sort, does he not consider that there are strong grounds for publishing the Irish papers in connection with these instead of having papers published only on the British side?
There may be a case for that, but the Deputy will appreciate that it would prejudice a decision in relation to an earlier period, and that earlier period to which I have already referred was controversial in our history, and the release of papers dealing with that period might give rise to further controversy and, in my opinion, unnecessarily so. However, the suggestion made by the Deputy is worthy of examination, and I can have it looked into.
In view of the fact that questions have been put down by Members of both Opposition parties, surely the Taoiseach would agree that up to 1941 would be an appropriate period for full publication, bearing in mind that there is no limit whatever in this country and that this publication of documents is done purely on an arbitrary basis by the Government, at the sole discretion of the Government? That is rather an undesirable situation.
It is my responsibility mainly, as Taoiseach, and as long as I have that responsibility, it is not my intention to exacerbate any situation or position. The matters which were controversial are not yet above controversy. Many of the people who were engaged in these controversial matters in the early twenties are still alive, and I do not think it would be fair to them and certainly not fair to the equanimity of the country, that these documents concerning this period should be thrown open.
Would the Taoiseach not accept that we are mature enough to know the facts about what happened 46 to 48 years ago? Would the Taoiseach not agree that his suggestion, that the publication of them would in some way exacerbate bitterness or something, suggests that we are living in the past, which the younger generation in this country could not accept? Will he not agree that we in this country are as mature as people in other countries, where very controversial documents relating to periods as recent as 30 years ago are published?
The Deputy was born, I think, after the Civil War. Remember there was a civil war in this country, and it cost many of those who took part in it their lives. We are moving away from the situation when the Civil War can be a matter of friction between people but I am not satisfied that we are yet far enough from it.
What relevance has the Civil War at this stage? Surely we can hear the facts? It is a reflection on the maturity of the Irish people.
Indeed no, but I would not reflect on the maturity of the people of 1921 and 1922 either, as the Deputy appears to imply.