asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will detail the steps which Ireland may take within the EEC after the end of the transitional period to guard against practices of a dumping nature by other member States.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Membership of EEC.
13.
There are certain provisions in the Treaty of Rome under which action could be taken by us against practices of a dumping nature in the circumstances to which the Deputy refers. These are—
Article 7 which prohibits discrimination on the grounds of nationality;
Article 85 which prohibits certain agreements between enterprises;
Article 86 which prohibits improper exploitation by enterprises of a dominant position within the Common Market, and
Article 92 which prohibits State aids which distort competition.
The precise nature of the action to be taken would depend on the nature of each case that arose.
Is the Minister satisfied that it will be open to us within the EEC to take instant action to prevent the dumping of goods in this country which could have the effect of closing some Irish firms which otherwise would be quite viable? I respectfully suggest that it is not open to this country within the Treaty of Rome and therefore our negotiators should be instructed to ensure that Ireland's special position as an island justifies this country taking steps to prevent dumping by other members of the EEC?
I can see the anxiety, but people in business do not share the Deputy's anxiety about dumping. Members of the EEC and the other applicants do not share anxiety about dumping. There is nothing in either the Treaty of Rome or the secondary legislation arising from it about dumping in a completed Community, because in a single market there can be no dumping between member States.
That is the theory. We are concerned with the practice.
This is not theory; this is the Community as it exists. It would be comparable to say that a factory in Donegal is dumping in Dublin as it would be to say in the Common Market that a factory in France was dumping in Germany.
It cannot be called dumping.
Both existing members of the Community and applicant countries accept that there cannot be dumping unless there are separate markets. I think we are stuck with definitions here.
The Minister is, but I am not.
The definition of dumping is the putting of products in a country other than one's own at a price much lower than the cost or at a price lower than they are being sold at home.
What would the Minister say about Irish jobs being lost?
Deputy Ryan deserves an answer because he has been studying the matter a long time. I should like to say for the information of the House that the rules of trade between members of the Community do not have any anti-dumping content. If an applicant country does not want to join the Community with the rules as they are it need not join. Negotiations will not change the rules of the Community and no action of mine or of any of the other negotiators would change the rules within the Community. I have tried to get special treatment for Ireland because of her small island position but this is not available. I have taken it up again personally since the last time it was raised in this House. It is not possible for us to get special treatment for Ireland in the Common Market.
But the Minister believes we should get special treatment on account of our position?
The options open to me are to accept the rules of the Community as they are or to stay out of it. The Commission and the Community were anxious to make sure that we would be aware of the rules of the Community which would give such protection. A very extensive study was made by officials from this country with officials of the Community of Articles 7, 85, 86 and 92. From consultations they have had with people in industry here the officials have confirmed what the Community officials say their experience is namely, that dumping of that type is very rare. There have been 26 cases in the 12 years the Community have been in existence and 22 of these took place in the first four years. As I say, the Community members themselves already under these rules are quite satisfied that actions of a dumping nature will not take place and are not taking place. The other applicant countries are also satisfied. The Community are positive that they will not be able to treat any nation differently from the other nine members. If we are considering whether we should or should not join the Community with its rules, these Articles are there under which we can find protection. Information available to me from experts in this country about that type of activity is that there is adequate protection in these Articles.
Is it not a fact that there is a specific section in the Treaty of Rome which allows a country six months to reply to an allegation of dumping?
This is during the transitional period.
That is not the case. There is a specific section in the Treaty of Rome which provides that any country against which an allegation of dumping is made has six months to reply.
No. As I said in the beginning, as far as intra-Community trade is concerned, the Common Market is one market and by definition dumping cannot take place from one part of the market to another.
In reply to one of the supplementaries the Minister said he believed there was a special case to be made for Ireland. He also said that under the Treaty of Rome this special pleading for Ireland cannot be accepted.
Special treatment for any one country is not available in the final Community but, during the transitional period, special arrangements will be negotiated to meet the special difficulties.
Sweden found the answer to that one.
That is another question. As I said earlier on, when the Community are fully formed the rules of the Community will apply to the whole Community. It is unrealistic to try to change the rules. One of the principles on which negotiations were opened was the acceptance of the rules of the Community.
One final question——
We cannot debate this question all evening.
——would the Minister not agree that Germany sought and successfully negotiated special treatment terms for West Berlin, the population of which is something equivalent to the population of our Republic? If West Germany can do it for West Berlin it should be possible for us to get similar treatment having regard to the fact that we are an island on the west of the EEC just as West Berlin is an island on the east.
We do not have sufficient communists—I suppose that is the problem.
Certainly such special treatment could not be obtained on a national basis. It may be possible under regional planning to get special consideration for certain areas, but certainly not on a national basis.
I am calling Question No. 14. We cannot discuss this question all evening. There are 78 questions on the Order Paper.
The Minister's ear lobes were affected by a question I asked earlier.
My ear lobes?
Is it the position that the Minister has received certain assurances that Irish jobs will be defended in the transitional period and that he is satisfied with such assurances? Is that the case on which the Minister rests?
I should like to put it in my own words.
I wish the Minister would.
I should like the House to be clear that the assurances I received of the effectiveness of action that could be taken were given to me in the Community, but not as an alternative to anything else. There was nothing else offered. Having studied in depth over a long period the assurances and also the action that can be taken under different clauses, the people here who deal with these matters are quite satisfied that industry will be protected under these clauses without any special anti-dumping measures.
Does that include the Confederation of Irish Industry?
I have quotations from the confederation here.
Whatever about quotations, is that their settled view-point?
(Interruptions.)
The Deputies were never worried about jobs. They were worried only about the rate for the job. The Deputy cannot tell me anything about that. I spent years dealing with it. They never worried about creating or protecting jobs. They worried only about the rate for the job.