andMr. Desmond asked the Minister for Education why an employee of the National College of Art (name supplied) was dismissed; and if he will arrange for her reinstatement.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - College of Art Model.
50.
The model named by the Deputy was dismissed on the recommendation of the college authorities. I am satisfied that there were good and sufficient grounds for her dismissal. I am not prepared to have her reinstated.
Would the Minister not think it desirable that the person in question should be given the reason for her dismissal?
I have pointed out to the Deputy that she was not regarded as satisfactory as a model.
She was not told the reason for her dismissal and she was told by the Department that there was no reason for giving her a reason. Would the Minister have a look into the matter or would he have an inquiry in view of the fact that the girl is victimised?
The Deputy can be assured the lady in question was not being victimised. The fact is that she was appointed as a model on the recommendation of the professor and he is obviously the best qualified person to judge the type of individual suitable for this work. The conditions of employment provided that the employment was purely temporary and could be terminated by one week's notice on either side. The professor and other staff expressed their dissatisfaction with the manner in which this lady was carrying out her duties and asked that she be dismissed. As the college authorities are de facto her employers, and they had decided she was not satisfactory, I formally agreed with their proposal. The Deputy will accept that, even had I wished to, I could not insist on the college authorities continuing to employ a person who did not meet their requirements.
The Minister is aware that in many cases employment is from week to week. The Minister mentioned misconduct. Was that suggested?
Certainly not. I did not mention misconduct. The very fact that the lady was given a week's notice precludes any such suggestion.
In view of the fact that five or six people were opposed to her dismissal, would that not seem to justify the suggestion that a wrong decision was made by the college authorities? Was the decision made by all the authorities or by one person?
The signatures of five teachers were appended to a document but one of those has since stated that he did not sign the document. In any case these teachers are in the Foundation School and they would have no knowledge as to whether or not the model was satisfactory.
In view of the fact that the girl feels victimised will the Minister have another look at this?
No. I have examined this very carefully and, as I stated, even if I wished to, I could not insist on the college authorities retaining her in employment.
May I ask the Minister whether there is anything alleged against her other than intervening to express her opinion on a matter? Is that not the issue at stake, that this is considered to be such an impertinence that she must be dismissed on the spot?
In fact that is not the reason.
I see. Could the Minister tell us the reason then?
I have already stated that she was not satisfactory as a model.
To whom? To the people for whom she was modelling?
To the people in charge of the painting school. I want to make this clear. I read in the newspapers a suggestion that this young lady was dismissed because of a particular incident which is alleged to have occurred. This is not so because, in actual fact, before the incident occurred a letter requesting that she be replaced was sent to my Department.
Would the Minister not agree that the situation in the National College of Art at the moment is an intolerable one? The police have been brought in there over the last week or so. The police have been in and out constantly and the students cannot possibly work under these conditions. Would the Minister not agree that for an educational body under his control to give the example of bringing the police in, which no other educational institution here has done, is to give very bad example and to make conditions impossible for the students to work whatever the difficulties may have been?
I am very interested in what the Deputy has to say when he states that, because the police go into the College of Art, the students cannot study. Perhaps he might look at it the other way around for a change and ask himself why it was necessary to bring them in.
I have asked myself, but would the Minister not agree that even if there are internal difficulties in an educational institution it is well established that they cannot be dealt with by bringing in the police and that no institution of higher education here has ever attempted to do that? In the universities if there was any suggestion of that the first thing the authorities would do would be to send the police out, and they have done it.
If the night students were to be prevented from doing their examination students who had nothing at all to do with what is going on at the present time in the College of Art, would the Deputy think that it would be preferable to allow those who would wish to disrupt these examinations to continue or to permit the students who have studied all year to do their examinations?
That is not the issue. It is the bringing in of the police to an educational institution.
Question No. 51.
I am not asking a question. I am just saying that the Minister has not given a satisfactory reply, and in view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply I propose reluctantly to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.