asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he is aware that voluntary transfer deeds of land and family settlements affecting very small farms are now being sent by the Adjudication Office to the Commissioners of Valuation for the purpose of determining the market value of the land in question for stamping purposes; that owing to shortage of staff there is great delay in having many of the deeds stamped since the new procedure was adopted; that old age pension applicants are refused the pensions to which they are lawfully entitled until such time as the deeds of transfer in question have been stamped and registered in the Land Registry; that grave hardship is caused to old age pension applicants by such long delays; and if he will accordingly direct social welfare officers to accept evidence from the applicant's solicitor that a deed of transfer has been executed and lodged for stamping and to deal with the applicant's old age pension claim as at the date of the deed in question.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Land Transfer Deeds.
Where a deed of transfer has been duly executed and stamped it may be accepted for old age pension purposes if there is evidence that it has been, or is being, lodged for registration. It would, in my view, be unreasonable to expect the deciding authorities to regard a deed as conclusive before it has been stamped.
Is the Minister aware that there is a delay of six to nine months and, in some cases, a year? Surely this is unfair to those who voluntarily sign over their land.
That is not my information.
I have known numerous cases of delays of six to nine months.
It is most unreasonable to expect a transfer to be accepted before stamping takes place. People change their minds. When the deed is lodged for registration we do not wait for registration; we accept the transfer as bona fide.
What has stamping to do with revoking the deed?
In many cases people change their minds.
The power of revocation is there irrespective of whether or not the deed is stamped.
It has to be stamped before it is lodged for registration.
What has that to do with revocation?
We do not accept that the transfer has taken place until stamping is carried out. That shows a genuine desire to transfer and we do not wait for registration.
The Minister will admit that the people concerned are people who do not place the importance they should, perhaps, on having business like that transacted as it should be. Because of the hardship would the Minister be prepared to accept Deputy L'Estrange's suggestion and would he recognise retrospection?
We always pay from the date of the application.
If a person puts in an application he will not lose?
If the application is made at the time the pension claim is lodged and it eventually goes through for registration payment is made from the date of the application.
Is it the date of application for the old age pension or the date of application for the transfer?
It would be the date of the application for transfer, if it is later.
I am calling Question No. 29.
But this is a most important question.
I have already allowed six supplementary questions.
But this is a most important matter. Would the Minister not consider accepting the date of application?
He did not resign as the Taoiseach told us in this House. He was sacked.
He has the right to ask a question if he wants to.
Would the Minister not sympathetically reconsider the position and accept the date of application for the pension as being the qualifying date?
No. This is most unreasonable. A person could apply for a pension today and not apply for transfer of his holding for two years.
That would be exceptional.
We cannot define what is a reasonable period. The type of case to which the Deputy refers is not one about which we have any complaints whatever. The person invariably seeks to transfer his holding before claiming a pension.
Is the Minister disputing that there is substance in Mr. Ó Moráin's question?
The point in Deputy Moran's question——
Ó Moráin.
——is whether we should accept the application for transfer as conclusive rather than wait until it is stamped, not the matter of the timing.