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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 May 1971

Vol. 254 No. 2

Committee on Finance. - Financial Resolution No. 8: General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.
—(Minister for Finance).

In this debate we are discussing the spending by the Government of a sum of £551 million. By the end of the Financial Year we may have another Budget, but if things proceed as they have done in other years, the Government may be spending £560 million or £570 million. On top of that sum there is £217 million in the Capital Budget and £60 million being collected in rates this year. The Government and the local authorities will be spending roughly £827 million. Despite this huge expenditure our country is faced with a crisis. It is still not progressing as all Irishmen would like to see it progress. All our present woes and troubles are due to the fact that we have no leadership from the top. There is no collective responsibility as it is known by other Cabinets and other Governments throughout the world. The Taoiseach must accept full and unmitigated responsibility for the non-performance of many members of his Government at the present time. We are entitled to ask what they are doing. The only reaction we hear from many of them are vague noises and woolly talk, often appealing to the people to save more, to work harder and to practise more self-denial. These are all good and commendable sentiments, but the lead must come from the top and from the members of the Government. We need example from the top and we are certainly not getting it from the present Government. In the words of the Minister for Finance we have at the present time too many low standards in high places. There are Tacateers, racketeers and speculators of every description who can get rich quickly while the poor of the country get poorer. This is completely wrong.

Those of us who are on local authorities know that the road grants have been cut which means that ordinary workers get less work. The Land Commission money has been cut. This means that the ordinary workers who usually get nine or ten months work will be laid off, or fewer men will be employed. There is only half the number of people employed in forestry now as compared with the number working on forestry years ago. It is completely wrong, with an expenditure of £850 millions approximately, that when the Government have to make savings they start at the bottom rung of the ladder. If this continues, if the racketeers, Tacateers and the speculators are allowed to get rich quickly, if the Government crucify the man at the bottom rung of the ladder by taking away the dole, we will have a revolution and the people will go on the streets. The blame can rest only on the shoulders of the Taoiseach and the Government.

Today we are confronted with a crisis in our financial affairs which is more menacing than any we have faced since the war. The situation is grim for the workers and those people on the dole. It is wrong for our Ministers and the Taoiseach to put the blame on the workers and the farmers. The main cause of the crisis is excessive expenditure by the Government and lack of proper planning, programming and leadership. The captain and the crew are arguing with one another while the ship of State is drifting on to the rocks.

It is wrong for the Taoiseach and the Government to continue misleading the people. We know the Taoiseach cannot take the members of the Cabinet or members of his party into his confidence but he should tell the truth to the people. During the last war when the Irish people were told the facts the farmers and the workers did their job and helped the people to survive. The Irish people have always risen to the occasion and I have no doubt they would do so again if the full facts were told to them.

Ministers should stop pretending that prosperity for all is just round the corner. We have been listening to this kind of talk for a long time. I heard the late Mr. Seán Lemass when he was Taoiseach and other Fianna Fáil Ministers say we were going up the hill, that we were ready to go around the corner, but unfortunately Fianna Fáil have never brought us to the top of the bill. The Government cannot regain the confidence of the people because their image is tarnished; they must go before the people if their image is not to be ruined forever.

There are people on this side of the House who can put the economy right; we can have good and honest government by men of integrity. We can encourage our people to work harder in order to face increasing competition; we can give the proper incentives and abolish restrictive practices. In the past this country withstood Cromwell. A member of the Fianna Fáil National Council, Nóirín Ní Scolláin, who resigned recently from the Fianna Fáil organisation, stated in her letter of resignation that the Taoiseach was worse than Cromwell. I should not like to make that statement but this has been said by a person who was on the Fianna Fáil National Executive. In any case, this country withstood Cromwell and I suppose it can withstand those who are supposed to be even worse. There is nothing wrong with our economy that good leadership, sound policies and efficient government will not put right.

It is only right to point out that since Fianna Fáil returned to office some 14 years ago the cost of running the country has increased from £108 million in 1956 to roughly £550 million today. During the same period we borrowed more than £800 million and we are still borrowing. We are sinking this country further into debt. The cost of servicing the public debt has risen from £13 million in 1956 to more than £113 million today, as set out in the recent White Paper. In 1948-51 the Government of the day borrowed money to build hospitals to cure tuberculosis and to build houses. The national debt was less than one-sixteenth what it is today, but when the people went to the polling booths they were met by Fianna Fáil henchmen who told them the country was ruined because the Government had borrowed too much. They had a poster with a pawnbroker's sign on it and Deputy Cunningham, who is now a Parliamentary Secretary, said that next we would be borrowing to buy a cup of tea.

Do Fianna Fáil remember what they said in the past? Why was it wrong to borrow at that time? We borrowed at home but now we are borrowing abroad. We have mortgaged the land, the factories and the forests of Ireland, and now there is very little left apart from the lakes for future loans. Posterity will have to pay dearly for the present incompetent Government.

The cost of living has soared. I do not want to go back and mention what the dear old gentleman in the Park and others said at one time when they shed crocodile tears about the cost of living. The housewife is well aware that the pound is rapidly losing value. In 1969 we had a record adverse balance of trade, reaching about £209 million. When the Government were in Opposition they spoke out loudly against our adverse trade balance. Now that we are negotiating for entry into Europe it might be no harm to mention that many of us believe that the people have not been prepared for the competition they will face in the Common Market. Since 1965 the gap in the balance of trade has been widening.

In 1968 it was £152.9 million, in 1969 it was £209 million and in 1970 it was also £209 million. When I put down a question to the Taoiseach asking the total value of imports from and exports to each country in the EEC since the Community's inception, I was told that imports from the six countries amounted to £702,225,000 while we exported to those countries only £284,604,000 worth, leaving a deficit of approximately £417 million. Surely that is a failure and something of which no Government could be proud. Since those people have exported so much to us in the past we will need to be on our toes to ensure that this type of situation does not occur in the future.

The Government talk about inflation but it is they who should give a lead. The signs of inflation have been evident for the past few years and this is the third consecutive year in which there has been a deficit in the balance of payments. In 1968 it amounted to £16.3 million, in 1969 it was £69.1 million and in 1970 it was £62 million. Therefore, during the last seven years of Fianna Fáil Government there have been only two years in which there was a surplus in our balance of payments —in 1957 there was a surplus of £9.2 million and of £15.2 million in 1967. During the years the deficit in the balance of payments was £22.1 million in 1963, £31.4 million in 1964, £41.8 million in 1965 but as will be seen from the figures I have already given there has been an increase in the past three years to £69.1 million and £62 million respectively. In spite of those danger signs the Government are standing idly by.

We are living on borrowed money and on borrowed time. The state of our economy can be attributed to the mismanagement of the Fianna Fáil Government. The Minister for Transport and Power said recently that the party are united, but we all know that the only matter on which they are united is the cutting of each others throats. If we had had a united Government whose Ministers worked hard in co-ordinating their efforts, we would have been in a position to encourage our people to work harder and to increase exports and we would not have the adverse trade balance that we have today. It is time the Government woke up. They should find somewhere besides each others backs in which to bury the tomahawks. It is time they forgot their party's squabbles and worked determinedly in the interest of the people and of the country or, failing that, call a general election and have a new Government elected, because the Government in power today are not the party or the Ministers that the Taoiseach asked the people to vote for in 1969. Half the Ministers that we had at that time are now in oblivion.

As a constructive Opposition we have the national interest at heart. We have not only the right but the duty to ask ourselves what lasting value have we got for the people of this country. If, as a result of the Government's financial policy, the expenditure of £828 million in the Capital Budget, we, as Members of this Dáil, were in a position to say that emigration had ceased, that unemployment had been reduced substantially and that the number of people at work in Ireland had been increased greatly, we would have some ground for satisfaction and, whether we agreed with the Government or not, we could congratulate them on that state of affairs. But such is not the case. Irrespective of political beliefs, we are concerned to see that more people can live and work happily in this country and bring up their families in reasonable comfort, but the Government have failed our people.

It is only right to put on the records of the House the present state of this country. I have heard Fianna Fáil speakers, including the late Seán Lemass and the present Taoiseach, say that Fianna Fáil should be judged on the number of people in employment in the country. In that context I must emphasise that since Fianna Fáil were returned to office more than 500,000 of our young people have had to emigrate to earn a living abroad. Before elections in the past we saw posters all over the country with the caption: "Wives, put your husbands to work" but when these women went out to vote they did not realise that where they would be putting their husbands to work would be in Birmingham, Glasgow, Coventry or elsewhere, but this is what happened. Many people are still emigrating. The figure is about 25,000 for each year.

Many people may not realise that there are fewer people at work today than there were some years ago. If one happens to hear a Fianna Fáil speaker being interviewed on radio or television, one will invariably hear him say that many more jobs have been created in industry. However, what these speakers do not tell the people is that many people have left the land, have turned the keys in their doors and have had to emigrate. While some of these people would not have had a very good living under the British regime here, at least they were able to live in the country. Neither do Fianna Fáil speakers tell us that there are far fewer people employed in the county councils, in forestry and by the Department of Lands. On the 24th November, 1970, I asked the Taoiseach the total number of people at work during 1951; the total number at work at the latest available date in 1970; the reduction expressed as a percentage of total number of people; and the reasons for the reduction. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach gave the following reply:

The total number of persons at work in the State in April, 1951, was 1,217,000. The corresponding figure for 1970 is not yet available, the most recent estimate being that for 1969. In 1969 the total at work was 1,069,000 representing a reduction of 12.2 per cent on the 1951 figure.

In other words there are 148,000 fewer people at work now than in 1951. The Government tell us half-truths here. Unfortunately, more will be unemployed this year because as I said earlier there is less money to provide work in county councils, forestry and lands. This is completely wrong but this is what the Government are doing.

The Government should remember that the safety valve of emigration may not be always there. What will happen if England closes her doors to Irish emigrants? Over 500,000 people have emigrated in the last 14 years. Since the Government introduced their recent dole restriction there are 70,000 people unemployed. That is how Fianna Fáil have solved emigration and unemployment. If we had no safety valve of emigration and if we added the 500,000 who emigrated to Britain and elsewhere to the 70,000 at present unemployed we would now have 570,000 unemployed. This is something the Government should face up to. Britain has her own problems at present with 800,000 people unemployed.

We are educating more people. In that regard it is worth nothing that there is a reduction in the money being granted for education. The universities are getting less and they have been instructed to employ no more professors. What will happen the young people we are now educating? Is it fair to them that when they are educated the Government cannot give them positions in their own country? The increased emigration is a damning indictment of the present Government and their policy and as a responsible Opposition it is our duty to put these things on record. The Government stand condemned and if we do not speak out we shall be accused of acquiescence in what is obviously a conspiracy of silence for political reasons aimed at deluding the public.

Dealing with agriculture in his Budget Statement the Minister said:

As regards agriculture, the Government are sympathetic to the situation that farmers have found themselves in over the past couple of years whereby as a result of inflation incomes in certain other sectors have increased at a faster rate than those of the farmers.

The Government's sympathy is very little use to farmers who cannot feed or clothe their wives and children on it. The Government should realise that. Figures were published recently which I think surprised many people. Something like 60 per cent of our farmers are small farmers with poor law valuations in the region of £30 or £40 and their income was shown to be in the £450 to £500 bracket. At present an agricultural labourer earns £15-£16. Surely the Government realise small. farmers are almost on the poverty line and sympathy is very little use to them? The gap between the farmers' income and that of industrial workers has now grown to about £9 or £9 10s per week. The Government have talked of tackling this for a long time. If only they would tackle it as they have tackled one another in the Cabinet, they might get somewhere. So far they have done nothing because what has been given—1d on milk—is no use in view of the increased overheads and increased rates farmers must meet at present.

The sheep population is down by one million. Farmers are being encouraged to increase the sheep population but when they did achieve a slight increase this year over last year the price of lambs fell by £2 to £3. Cattle prices are good at present and last week the Minister for Transport and Power waxed eloquent about these prices but very little thanks are due to Fianna Fáil for these prices. If Fianna Fáil had the same regard for cattle, sheep and pigs 30 or 40 years ago as they have now the position might be better for all of us.

Farmers represent roughly 30 per cent of our population. We have 16 million acres of arable land. I suppose the prosperity of everyone in the last analysis depends on what the farmers and their workers can get from the land and export profitably. Directly or indirectly the farmers are responsible for almost 70 per cent of our total exports but they get only 14.8 per cent of the national income.

On Tuesday, 11th May, I had a question to the Taoiseach. I admit that ten years ago the farming population was greater than it is now but ten years ago the farmers were getting 29 per cent of the national income; four years ago they were getting 19 per cent; three years ago they were getting 17.9 per cent and last year they got 15.6 per cent. This year they got 14.8 per cent of the national income. One-third of the people, who are responsible for 70 per cent of our exports, get one-sixth of the national income. Is that fair play or justice?

There are 286,136 people in the farming community and they get 14.8 per cent of the national income. According to the figures I got from the Taoiseach other sections representing 77,858 people got 20.9 per cent of the national income. Those figures show a very unfair position and it is time that the Government, instead of saying that the farmers have their sympathy, did something for our principal industry, instead of tearing each other asunder.

On the same occasion I asked a question about the number of farmers and found that from 1951 to 1966 the number of farmers had fallen by 35,000. The estimated number of agricultural labourers has fallen between 1957 and 1970, by 28,000. The estimated number of persons at work in agriculture, forestry and fishing has fallen from 452,000 in 1954 to 291,000, a decrease of roughly 150,000. I do not think any Government should be proud of those figures. Instead of saying they are sympathetic to the situation which farmers have found themselves in over the years, as a result of Government policy or lack of it, the Government should face up to their responsibilities and do something for this important section of the community.

The Minister spoke about inflation. On the eve of our entry into the EEC one of the greatest dangers facing us is the high priced economy deliberately forced upon us by the Fianna Fáil Government some years ago when they reduced food subsidies, introduced the turnover tax, extravagantly increased the cost of Government administration and increased taxation which is now five times as high as it was in 1956. They also extravagantly increased the cost of local administration and rates are now £60 million.

Many of our exports have been priced out of the British market and some of our products are much higher in price than those produced in the EEC countries due to taxation and the Government's financial policy, or lack of it. We are pricing ourselves out of foreign markets and if this policy continues our industries will not be able to hold the Irish market when tariffs are reduced or abolished. At the present time many of our own industrial products cannot be sold in shops in Dublin and many factories are suffering on that account. This is the road to economic disaster. It is time a national campaign was launched to bring this warning home to everyone because we are slowly but surely committing hara kari.

It is the Government's duty to give a lead, control the economy and balance all the factors one against the other. They are the only people who know the true facts and it is their duty to help the people get full advantage of the Free Trade Area Agreement we have made with Britain. There are many disadvantages in that agreement and our Ministers should be in Britain pointing out these disadvantages to the British Government instead of spending their time arguing and fighting among themselves.

The more we look at the sad history of this country during the past few years the more we realise the Government are responding to every wind that blows for political expediency. They have their eyes on the ballot box. They want to hold on to the fruits of office and the fruits of power. They are not interested in fair play; they are not interested in cherishing all the children of the nation equally; they are interested in keeping their hands as near the loot as possible. Anything they do they do with an eye on the ballot box and not for the common good. They have in the past given labour its head when labour was restive; they took the employers' side when employers were worried and they have come to the succour of sectional interests at different times. They have given way to pressure groups, they have ignored the interests of the country and we see the results all round us.

We had a maintenance strike which went on for six to eight months and nearly paralysed the country. The Government stood idly by. They did nothing good, bad or indifferent about it. I believe Senator Dunne was President of the Congress of Trade Unions at the time and he pointed out at that time that if they continued along the road they were on they would be committing suicide. He said it was up to the workers to come together and get agreement but the Government gave no lead at that time. We had a bank strike which lasted almost nine months and nearly crippled the country and again the Government stood idly by. Were they afraid that if they interfered they might alienate one section of the community and not get their votes in a future general election? I do not know what the reason is but again they stood idly by.

To remain viable under the Free Trade Area Agreement and be ready for entry into the EEC the Government must coax and lead and if necessary they must force employers and trade unions to accept changes in their own interests and in the interests of the country. We can no longer afford to allow irresponsibility to masquerade as an exercise of democratic liberty. Through deliberate Government action a flabby cost structure has been inflated like a balloon. Indeed, there is a serious danger of the collapse of the balloon. It cannot be denied that Government policy has been calculated to raise prices and costs. What we want is a reasonable term of stability so that everybody can co-operate and bake a larger national cake. When that national cake is baked every section of the community should get a fair and just slice of it. Unfortunately today we are handing out slices of the cake before it is even baked and certain pressure groups are getting greater slices than they are entitled to. The Government should know full well that if one section gets more than it is entitled to other sections must take less and that is definitely harming our economy at the present time.

Industry will be of great importance for the future of the country if and when we enter the EEC. The Minister spoke about the EEC and about concentrating on transitional measures in the industrial and agricultural sectors. I claim the Government are not doing enough in this direction to prepare the people for the competition which undoubtedly lies ahead if we enter the EEC. As far as we on this side of the House are concerned we believe the policy of promoting industrial exports through tax incentives and encouraging foreign investment in this country is the right policy. Having initiated that policy we see no reason for changing it simply because Fianna Fáil have adopted it in preference to their original policy of economic self-sufficiency which they have abandoned for the last ten or 12 years. Our industrial policy of expanding employment for our own people in our own country should be further stimulated and supported and it is not being done in this Budget.

The 58 per cent company tax will hit many industries. We should now, by tax concessions, get our people and our industries more efficiently geared to meet the competition which as I have said earlier undoubtedly lies ahead.

When Mr. Dan Morrissey was Minister for Industry and Commerce he established the Industrial Development Authority to promote industrial enterprise. Fianna Fáil at that time were loud in their condemnation; but they have since learned and the Industrial Development Authority is now the cornerstone of industrial finance from Government sources for the promotion of new industries. We can claim the credit for that. In the 1955 Finance Act the late Deputy Sweetman, Minister for Finance, provided special tax remissions for export industries. These received scant praise from Fianna Fáil at the time. I remember the late Deputy Lemass stating here that Fianna Fáil would yet be in a position to take those Acts off the Statute Book. That is on record. That did not happen because once again Fianna Fáil learned sense and saw the value of these statutes. Both Deputy Sweetman and Deputy Norton in the then inter-Party Government were determined to do what they could do for the people; they were united in that determination, unlike the present Fianna Fáil Government united in their determination to cut one another's throats. They realised that, instead of having Irish workers emigrating to find employment elsewhere, it would be better to provide that employment at home by appealing to those with the money and the knowhow to establish industries here. Before the inter-Party Government went out in 1956 Whitegate oil refinery had come into this country with £20 million. Today it provides valuable employment. The industrial progress in this country in the last 14 years is due to the initiative of Deputy Sweetman and Deputy Norton in 1956. It is to them the credit is due, not to Fianna Fáil.

It is the Government's duty to protect the weak and not to yield to pressure groups. No one should yield to the leaders of wild cat strikes. Do those who engineer these strikes realise that they are cutting their own throats? Is it not their own fellow workers they are hurting? We can have increased prosperity only through increased production and by making a larger cake available. Breaking agreements will never bring about increased production.

The Deputy is getting away from the Budget.

The Minister spoke at length about the national wage agreement and so did the Minister for Transport and Power last week. If these agreements are not kept and some people get a bigger slice of the cake we will have nothing but chaos. The Minister spoke at length in his Budget Speech about the National Pay Agreement. He said:

The National Pay Agreement could be an important step forward in containing incomes inflation. We must, however, be realistic about it. The Agreement is clearly inflationary.

I do not think it is. I believe workers are entitled to good conditions and the best wage the nation can afford to pay them. I object to percentage increases. It is clearly wrong to give a man with £4,000 or £5,000 a year an increase of £400 or £500 while the man on the bottom rung of the ladder gets a mere £40. That is the kind of thing that leads to inflation. The Minister also said that it was time for the trade union leaders to make a stand against pressure groups. We have 70,000 unemployed. I hope that those concerned in these agreements will ensure that they are kept by both sides. It is in the national interest that they should be.

With regard to GNP, all should co-operate and work harder to bake a larger national cake. With a larger cake existing taxation could bring in sufficient to run the country. Income per head of the population makes interesting reading. According to Industrial Economic Trends for the 8th December, 1970, income per head of the population in Sweden was 3,320 dollars or £1,328; Switzerland, 2,790 dollars or £1,116; Denmark 2,540 dollars or £1,016; France, 2,530 dollars or £1,012; Norway, 2,360 dollars or £944; Germany, 2,200 dollars or £880; Belgium, 2,160 dollars or £864; Netherlands, 1,980 dollars or £792; United Kingdom, 1,860 dollars or £744; Finland, 1,710 dollars or £684; Ireland, 1,033 dollars or £413. Despite what we hear from the Fianna Fáil Government Ireland was at the bottom of the incomes table. I should mention that the figures for Spain and Portugal are not included.

Governments should always endeavour to increase the income per head of the population. The income per head of the population in Finland is twice what it is here and in Sweden it is three times as much. The aim of the Government should be to increase income per head of the population. That can be done by harder work and greater export incentives. The Government have fallen down on the job. The situation in which we are today is not a chance situation. It arises out of internal conflicts within the Government, resulting in the dismissal of three Ministers and the resignations of another Minister and a Parliamentary Secretary. What happened has shaken the nation to its foundations. The country is still rocking. With such instability one cannot have any progress. The internal conflicts in the Government were generated with a complete and wanton disregard of the public interest and the future of the country. It is a tribute to the stability of our institutions that this Dáil and the country lived through that period. It is no tribute to the Fianna Fáil Government or the Fianna Fáil Party.

When we are talking about honesty and integrity it must be pointed out that either the Taoiseach knew what was happening during that period, in which case he is not fit to be Taoiseach, or he did not know what was going on in his own Government, in which case also he is not fit to be Taoiseach or leader of an Irish Government. If the Government are not united they cannot co-ordinate their efforts to promote the prosperity of the country.

According to Fianna Fáil, we are always breasting the hill, always turning the corner. They are always telling us we would want to work harder. It might be no harm if the Ministers would work a little harder. Many people who have to work hard in this country are not paid adequately for it. During the last war the Germans had their factories razed to the ground; the Russians looted and took everything that was in the country. The Germans had to make the tools to build the factories, to build the industries, and today it is one of the wealthiest nations in Europe. A few moments ago I gave the income per head. After the last war they worked 60 hours for themselves and 20 hours for the Fatherland.

It is a pity some of our Ministers would not work like that, because I believe the lead must come from the top. It is the duty of the Government to cherish all the children of the nation equally, to see that the workers get a fair crack of the whip, which, as I explained earlier, they are not getting from this Government. There will be a hue and cry, a revolution as I said earlier; they will be on the streets, if the Government do not do more for the ordinary workers. It is most unfair that when there is any talk of a crisis it is the person on the bottom rung of the ladder who suffers. It is completely wrong to see people in reasonably good positions looking for increases of £20 per week on top of good salaries, while road workers, forestry workers, those working on land reclamation, on Land Commission work, and on inland fishery work are so badly paid. Indeed, some people cannot even get the dole, because it has been taken from the unemployed in rural Ireland who are under 50 years of age. There was a time when people were banished to hell or to Connaught; now under Fianna Fáil it is to hell or to England.

Despite the huge expenditure by the Government this year of £828 million through the Capital Budget, to which must be added the £60 million spent by local authorities, we are not making the progress that should be made. Why is there not full employment? Why is there not an end to emigration? Why is there not housing for all our people? Why are there not better social services and an end to the poverty that is in our midst today? Were it not for organisations like the Saint Vincent de Paul Society and the home assistance officers in different parts of the country, a large section of the Irish people would be in dire poverty.

The fact that we are now facing an economic crisis, as we are, is due, first of all, to the lack of Government leadership and example. The Government have failed to take the people into their confidence. As the Minister has stated in his speech and as many economists point out, Ireland is living beyond her means. It was the Government's duty to try to resolve that, but they have done very little about it. Too many people put extra leisure before extra effort. Again, there should be a lead from the top. When one sees the amount of money allocated to the police is it any wonder there is a drift to anarchy? I was in a barracks the other day—perhaps I will be ruled out of order——

The Deputy rightly anticipated it.

The police there have an old car and I was about to suggest it would be no harm if the Government Ministers would give their Mercedes to the unfortunate gardaí who are driving 12 year old cars——

This is a matter for the Department's Estimate.

Let us all admit that another reason why we are not on the road to prosperity is that too many working hours are turned into hours for drinking, gambling and so on. Money is regarded by too many people of all classes as something to be got or won rather than earned. There are far too many trade unions in which the leaders are not in control of their members.

While France, Germany, Italy and Japan—all countries that were beaten in the last war—have had their economic miracles, Ireland has not yet shown the willingness or the capacity to achieve her own miracle. This is due again to the squandermania of the Government, the fact that they themselves are not prepared to work, the fact that half of the members of the Government are not fit to be members of the Government. There are also too many managements who are unimaginative and have not treated their factory workers as they should have treated them, who are more interested in playing golf and having a good time than being on the factory floor, mixing with the workers and getting to know them, and giving proper leadership.

Another reason for our failure is that the change from privilege to talent has been too slow in all too many of our board rooms. Too few of our factories have moved fast enough with the times and availed themselves of the adaptation grants, loans, et cetera that would prepare them for the competitive period that lies ahead. Again, the Government are to blame here. The workers should have a share in the running of the factory. If they give their lives, their sweat and their blood, they are entitled to some say. The Government through the State and semi-State bodies should give a lead. I do not see why we cannot have a workers' democracy. A beginning could and should be made.

We are also failing economically because our own people are not prepared to buy Irish and support Irish industry. The more affluent they become the more they are inclined to follow slavishly the trends and fashions of other countries and to purchase imported products. If the Government want to put us on the road to prosperity, to protect our industries and our workers, they must institute a Buy Irish campaign immediately. The Minister for Industry and Commerce said here some time ago that he is prepared to co-operate with every party. All parties should pool their resources and their energy in order to bring home to the people that it is in their own interests and that of their families to buy Irish. If we do not get the people interested in it now before we enter the EEC, then God help us when we do. In the last analysis economics is a matter of human nature and not of formulae. No country can be saved if the people will not save themselves. Unfortunately we are not getting the proper lead from the top. For the past few years leadership has been lacking, soft words have been substituted for hard facts. Exhortation has never been followed up by the present Government by deed and rights have come before responsibilities. The philosophy of far too many people in this country has been: "All take and no give."

The Government have got us into the mess we are in. The blame must rest fairly and squarely on their shoulders. We have had low standards in high places for too long. The present Government have helped to drag our nation and our people into the gutter. The standing-idly-by policy of the Government is helping the drift to anarchy and the erosion of the old spirit of idealism and self-sacrifice, of neighbourliness and concern for others. Today, due to the "get rich quick" mentality of members of the present Government and the fact that good positions in this country are filled by supporters of the Government irrespective of their ability, the fact that a person, as a Minister said one time, born without a seat in his trousers can become a millionaire if he has the right contacts, the fact that members of Taca get contracts to which they are not entitled, life in Ireland is a rat race in which racketeers, speculators and Tacateers get richer and richer while the workers and the poor get poorer and poorer. Due to the lead given by the Government who should be interested in the financial future of the country especially in view of our EEC negotiations today it is mostly a case of each man for himself with no other motive to inspire the many than self-advancement, fast money and a Mercedes car.

The people of Ireland expect better. The men of 1916, with ideas and ideals, did not risk their all for an Ireland that would be unworthy of their sacrifice. They stood by Ireland and did not run away from her when she was poor. They served the nation without asking for anything in return. They were prepared indeed at that time to sacrifice their lives for the welfare of the people. Contrast that with the "get rich quick" merchants, some of whom are Ministers in the Fianna Fáil Party but many of whom are followers of that party, interested not in the future prosperity of the people, not in the economic position of the majority of the people, but interested in self-aggrandisement, in bringing wealth, privilege and prosperity to themselves and to their friends.

Ireland today needs men in Government and in all sectors of our economy who are prepared not to sacrifice their lives but, by their work and example, to lead our people out of the morass in which they have been allowed to founder by the present Government. I claim that if we continue to barter, as we are bartering, with the things that make us a nation for material gain or personal aggrandisement the nation will assuredly die.

The Ireland envisaged by our patriots is dying quickly. Despite the huge amount of money being demanded from our people in this Budget we are facing a crisis. The time has come to say to this arrogant and corrupt Government: "Thus far shalt thou go and no further." Ireland today needs honest men, needs an honest Government. It needs men of integrity to lead us into the more competitive period of the Common Market. An alternative is available on this side of the House where there are honest men, men of ability, who are prepared to lead this country in the interests of the people.

Because of the uncertainty and the instability that exist the time has come for the Taoiseach to face the people and ask for their verdict. In the last few years our troubles have been allowed to multiply. We are today spending £830 million of the people's money. Despite that we have fewer people in employment. We have 70,000 unemployed; 500,000 emigrated in the last 14 years; there are 158,000 fewer people at work than there were in 1951. All the signs point in the wrong direction. This is due to the fact that we have not got proper leadership. To paraphrase the words of Lord Melbourne, a British Prime Minister, it can be said of the present Taoiseach that as far as he was concerned, when he was faced with a problem, it was: "Ponder, pause, prepare, postpone and end by leaving things alone. In fact earn the people's pay by standing idly every day." The present Taoiseach and the present Government have done that for far too long. The country is paying dearly for it today.

I do not propose to follow the trail of woe laid down by Deputy L'Estrange. I have known him for a long time. He has been making this speech with additions and subtractions down the years. He has been carrying the national debt like a milestone around his neck since I was in the Seanad in 1959. He bewails the mythical figure of 72,000 unemployed. He knows very well that figure is a myth.

The unfortunate people who are unemployed do not think it is a myth.

Anyone who looks at a labour exchange any day can tell the Deputy that. I called here earlier this year for a reclassification of the employment register so as to have a more realistic indication of the numbers actually unemployed. The Deputy imagines that he can use this House, and he has used it, perhaps to his advantage or maybe to his disadvantage, to make some very slanderous statements, statements which, if made outside, would mean that he would find himself in a court of law.

There were others in it and they got out fairly quickly.

The Deputy, for example, could not make those statements from a platform in Westmeath even if he were engaged in a general election campaign. He told us about the defects in the Government and used the occasion to make slanderous statements, statements that I shall not refute at present——

Because the Deputy could not refute them.

——because I think I heard him make those statements before. An example of this was that he was winning the 1969 election hands down up to polling day and, if I remember rightly, at the subsequent count his head was down between his legs when he discovered it was not the runaway victory that he had anticipated. So, if I were in the Deputy's position I should be extremely careful in calling for a general election because I have heard him call for a general election so often that I nearly know in advance what he will say, subject to small variations.

None of us wants to give the impression, nor did the Minister give the impression, that the economy was in a comfortable position. The facts set out in the Budget Statement show that we are in for a difficult time and that if we do not take steps to correct some of the problems which at present beset us we may find ourselves in a much greater difficulty later on. Those of us who are in politics for some time know well that this country had a buoyant period of industrial activity for roughly the first seven years of the sixties. We know why and we also know why the buoyancy ceased. Like most other countries when we have a period of high industrial activity we also get a period of claims for more money on behalf of those engaged in this activity. I do not want to lean on one section more than another except to say that we are all in it together and it is up to us now to make as good a job as we can of it, bearing in mind that certain factors in the past two or three years stood in the way of progress.

There was no attempt by the Minister to hide this fact in his Budget Statement. Indeed, he was very explicit almost in every paragraph and he referred to the current trend of inflation, the current desire of people seeking more money, not met out of production, to price our exports off the markets abroad and to drive up unemployment figures at home. The Deputy did refer to the unemployed and the national income per head of the population and he tried to contrast the figures with figures for much more progressive countries in Europe. While we may be regrettably low on the list in regard to national income per head of the population we are not low on the list when it comes to strikes, agitations, lock-outs and seeking shorter hours and so on. We cannot have it both ways in this context. If we persist with the present trend we shall create more trouble in the future.

In the Budget, it is not all a loss. For example, the money allocated for housing and ancillary services is considerably up on last year's figure. This should generate greater activity in the building industry which plays a very prominent part in our development in general. I make that point before trying to make a short summary of some of the matters the Minister dealt with in the Budget.

The amount of money for capital development in general is in line with our aim to promote the sectors of the economy which we think stand most in need of promotion and which will generally beget other activities which we deem to be good for the economy. In this statement the Minister said that growth slackened last year. We know growth slackened in 1969 and 1970 but the good point is that exports were well maintained. It is gratifying to find in the Minister's statement that the balance of payments position improved, while it was not what the Minister or the Government, I assume, would desire. Even allowing for the fact that there is still a large deficit, I think it is a sign of better management and planning that the position improved even by a small amount.

The main feature of this year's Budget is that national output has not risen to the extent needed or expected. We know that a 1½ per cent increase — the figure the Minister gave us as representing the expansion in national output — is not good enough. Even taking it from the angle of the expectations of those who seek a large slice of the national cake, we know that none of those people would be satisfied with a proposed 1½ per cent increase in their incomes. Therefore, we are back to the point that expectations always seem to outrun performances. It should be quite clear to all of us at this stage that unless we can increase the size of the national cake or unless we can increase the scale of our national output we shall only have small slices in return for the money generated from this national output to go around.

The Minister indicated that employment outside agriculture continued to rise. It is good to know this but it is doubtful if this trend is enough to offset the fall in overall production. One must contrast the 1½ per cent increase in national output against the 13 per cent increase in incomes outside agriculture or measure the 1½ per cent against the 8½ per cent rise in consumer prices. One then gets a pattern which is not favourable to promoting the higher standards which are sought all round.

One may well ask if we have an answer to the elements producing this bad pattern which are brought about by the things I have mentioned. Have we an answer to the continued trend of bad relations on the industrial side between employer and employee? I suggest that we have but are we willing to agree on the answer? It seems to me that this is very doubtful. The disturbed industrial scene over the past two years is enough evidence to make us want to agree that unless some semblance of order is restored to the national scene we shall go from bad to worse and the pattern may well become completely distorted.

What is the root cause of this? It is difficult to say. We have many explanations, some from industrial negotiators, some from psychologists and more from the ordinary man in the street. At any rate, looking at it from this point, one can think of the maintenance men's strike in 1969, which came at the end of a fairly successful period, as being one of the causes at the root of our present difficulties. That period may give us a clue to deal with such problems in the future. A strike like this is something to be avoided.

We hear very little about the achievements which have taken place. We heard nothing from Deputy L'Estrange this afternoon, when he was bewailing our present difficulties, about the increased employment immediately prior to 1969 and the steady fall in the rate of emigration which went down from roughly 50,000 in 1950 to roughly 17,000 in 1969. At that time we had achieved a great degree of stability in employment and from there we hoped to achieve a degree of stability in job opportunity. Our failure to do this stems from the maintenance men's strike. This dispute paralysed us for the first part of 1969 and threw thousands of men out of work. There were roughly 31,000 rendered idle and we wound up by losing something like 628,848 working days due to the ramifications of this dispute. Then we had the cement workers' strike last year, and if you take this in conjunction with other strikes we are heading for the top of the league. We are ahead of England and America and of some European countries. I obtained figures from the journal of the Congress of Trade Unions. If, for example, one takes it in the context of work days lost per 1,000 men employed we find that between 1959 and 1963 Ireland was ahead of England, a very big industrial country. Our figures were 416 as against 292 for England. From 1964 to 1968 the figure was 1,240 for Ireland as against 262 for England. If we take a ten year average for both countries we get a figure of 828 for Ireland and 262 for England.

If we have made progress towards higher living standards and if we have tried to go in the direction of employing more people our record of strikes in the period is unequalled. If we take this record together with the demand for shorter hours it seems to me that people must think there is gravy in striking and in shorter hours but I do not think that in the long run there is any gravy in strikes. The question arises: how long shall we be able to continue with this bad pattern? The answer comes up in the shape of some of the ills which the Minister mentioned and with which I shall deal later. It is apparent that one does not require to be a trade union negotiator, a trade union expert, an expert in the field of industry in general, or on the side of employers, to realise that if we keep on settling wage and salary claims at 14 or 15 per cent and the national output remains at 1½, 2, 3 or 4 per cent then we will not have to wait long until we have more unemployed because our exports will become high priced and will not be competitive.

I want to refer to this matter further. In December, 1969, the Taoiseach made a plea, when negotiations were about to start on general pay claims, that 7 per cent might be accepted by both sides in order to settle pay claims. However, this advice was not listened to, in some instances it was jeered at, and the general scramble began. The 7 per cent was far surpassed and some did better than others, but anyway it reached the stage subsequently in 1970 that the Minister for Finance sought agreement at all levels for a national plan and following heated argument a plan was agreed. As we know a Bill was introduced here and subsequently withdrawn and the plan was agreed to with some reservations. Fortunately it is still working except for attempts by some small groups. I will come to that later.

The industrial pattern, and we are talking now in terms of industrial relations, is complicated by the large number of unions which we have here. I am only expressing my own view now because I am not an employer nor an employee's negotiator. Subject to correction I think there are some 95 unions, five of which cater for over 60 per cent of the workers. If we want to do something about industrial relations we should endeavour to reduce the number of trade unions. This is far from being an easy job but certainly the proliferation of trade unions has tended to make negotiations far more difficult and far more complicated. I said earlier that our aim should be to find an answer, if we can, to this problem. We should update our legislation regarding trade unionism. Other countries have done so. We must do so before entering the EEC. This can be achieved in consultation with the unions involved who have experience of trade union law and of negotiating pay agreements. There has been a tendency in the past for splinter groups to break away from the larger unions. We should have the aims of trade unionism at heart and also the aim of increasing the national output. If we wish to see a higher standard of living it is incumbent on us to find procedures which will work better and by which we can achieve a better industrial pattern.

There is also a tendency to concentrate too much on redistribution of the national income. I have read a number of speeches by politicians, professors and experts in which there was a total lack of objectivity. There was no mention of the aim of increasing our income rather than talking about it in terms of distribution. At the commencement of the year we argue and squabble about what income we will get. We do not advert to how much income we can generate. If we cannot generate income we cannot redistribute it. The size of our national income is important. Anything done by an employer by way of a restrictive practice, or by a trade unionist by way of strike, retards our efforts to increase the national income. Anything that is done to retard these efforts is a crime in present circumstances. Behind the Iron Curtain anything that is done to retard growth of the national income is regarded as a crime, but apparently we have not yet reached that standard in this country. Perhaps we shall have to undergo hardship before we learn this fact.

We have not got anywhere like Siberia to send people to.

I am not a prophet of doom. There is room for only one of them in the Longford/Westmeath constituency.

The Minister indicated in his summary of the economic prospects that the picture looked better for the current year and that a more stable position is expected. If that is so, the news is quite good, especially in view of the fact that some part of the unfinished 12th round bill has to be carried into this year. If the total wage bill works out at a lower rate than it did last year, and assuming we can maintain productivity and curb price increases, we should reach more stable times.

The Minister also referred to the consumer demand and indicated the recovery of some 2½ per cent to 3 per cent. This is good news. The prospects for agriculture and industrial exports look reasonably good. In every paragraph of his statement the Minister referred to the erosion of money and to the causes of inflation. The Minister set out proposals for resisting further erosion of money and drew attention to the laudable aim of achieving a steady and sustainable rate of growth. Is there anyone in the House or outside it who will disagree with this aim?

All of us talk about higher standards of living but what does this mean? One is bound to suggest that it means, for example, greater job security, more jobs, more houses, more schools and hospitals, more store and beef cattle, putting the land in better heart and so on. It also means keeping the value of money and holding price increases at bay in so far as this can be done. If we are able to regulate pay claims we should be able to regulate price increases. I am not referring to imports because this is an entirely different matter, more or less outside the control of any Government, except in so far as emergency powers are concerned.

Therefore, if we take the Budget Statement in this context we shall see that the main aim of the Budget is directed towards preserving the purchasing power of our money, towards providing for better job security and trying to stem rising prices. The Minister's statement bore out the fact that the early and mid-60s was a relatively stable period — price increases in this period were roughly 3 per cent on average. Unfortunately, the late 60s showed a different trend and price increases rose to 7 per cent. These increases indicated the red light and I do not wonder that in every subhead of his statement the Minister comes back to the question of what is causing the loss in the purchasing power of our money.

The national pay agreement could be an important step in containing and curbing inflation. I hope that those who are involved in negotiations for more pay keep in mind the advice of the President of the Congress of Trade Unions, Mr. Maurice Cosgrave, when he asked trade unionists to have regard for pay increases in real terms rather than in paper terms.

Therefore, I put forward the proposition that the key to progress is the holding of incomes and prices. Unless we are able to do this we are facing real trouble in the future. We must always remember that whether it be primary goods we are exporting or man-made goods, such as industrial commodities, there are other countries exporting also and we shall always face competition. One of the gratifying points of the Budget Statement was that our industrial exports held up so well last year. But for this fact we should be in much more serious difficulty.

Trade is not a one-way street and we must keep our export prices highly competitive. This entails much more than the price factor — it means the quality of the article and so on. The main aim should be to curb our desire for pay income not met out of production. In dealing with inflation and the cure for it, the Minister rejected out of hand any anti-inflation measure which would cause hardship. By doing this he demolished the concept of a "strength through misery" programme and I was glad to hear the Minister say this. Therefore, I hope the national pay agreement will be kept by all. It is to be seen for what it is—purely an effort to give the economy a chance to generate growth because the signs of growth were lacking last year. The aim of the Minister's statement is to ask for time in which to promote production at home, time in which to keep the cost of such production within bounds and to negotiate pay claims on a realistic basis, on needs and not on status. He asked for a fair chance for the agreement. Those of us who are associated with local authority work or who are members of county councils know that this year pay increases not met out of production cost us dearly and that all the increases on all the subheads were mostly for compensation by way of pay. It should be clear to anybody that we cannot continue this unless we have the way and the wherewithal. The Minister is merely asking us to pause and to re-examine the position and then to go ahead in a more humble way.

The intention to go ahead with this sort of income discipline would undoubtedly help us in any effort we may make in relation to either industrial or agricultural production. Coinciding with this aim, the move towards legislation to bring up to date the scope of the Prices Acts or to amend the Restrictive Trade Practices Act is totally in line with the general aim to improve the position because we know enough now to realise that every application for an increase in price should be fully justified and, secondly, to realise that restrictive practices must be crushed out of existence if we are to survive and to survive especially in this year when some of the obligations of the 12th round have yet to be discharged and especially since there will be pressure on prices again this year because of a combination of circumstances. Therefore it behoves us to do what we can to update prices legislation and also to update the law in relation to restrictive practices.

We have a duty to see to it that real incomes are maintained. It does not matter who thinks otherwise. We may have every crackpot in the country suggesting ways and means of how this can best be achieved but as a countryman might say, we have some experience. Our aim should be also to think in terms of the lower paid workers and those people who are dependent on social welfare payments. Groups such as DATA, for example, who come forward seeking pay claims on a status basis of as much as 20 per cent must be reminded that our growth rate has been only 1½ per cent. Where, then, do DATA think the other 18½ per cent will come from? Surely they do not expect it to come from the old age pensioners, from those on social welfare, from the lower-paid workers or, hardly, from the taxpayers at this stage?

The promoters of this claim should be reminded that they have a duty to the community and that they have some obligation to the common good. If the claim were a humble one, one would not mind so much. At present this group are putting the economy through a series of physical jerks by causing the cutting-off of electricity supplies at times when it is most needed. One spokesman for the group has announced that his men are qualified engineers. "Our members," he said, "are not mindless militants."

This would not arise relevantly on the Budget debate. It is a matter of a trade dispute.

I submit it does, because we are dealing with this in the context of inflation and pay agreements. I think it arises nearly in every paragraph, unfortunately. I am trying to deal with it in a practical way by giving an example of what is happening.

As the Deputy is probably aware, the debate is confined to taxation, expenditure and financial policy. I agree that these matters would be appropriate to an Estimate but not to the Budget debate.

This is one of the many examples of what is the cause of some of our present troubles. He said they were not mindless militants. Of course they are not; they are only dealing with women and children and invalids: they do not need to be mindless militants. I shall move away from the subject in deference to the Chair.

I was glad to see in the Budget Statement a paragraph dealing with demand management. Any assistance we can provide to level out the difficulties of advance budgeting and programming would be gladly forthcoming. I believe we have entered an era when budgeting on a year-to-year basis is out. I am glad, therefore, that the Minister has taken up the question of demand management and that he has a group actively working and studying this so as to develop and extend it to other Departments. I am glad that a demand management programme will be a feature of government in the years ahead. This will mean a better pattern of fiscal management and more stability.

The Minister stressed the need for this type of management and said we were faced with a number of interrelated problems. He brought us back again to the more immediate problems, rising prices, a large external deficit and a growth rate far below our long-term aim. He set out the objectives at which we should aim in order to overcome those obstacles. The first recommendation was to cut back the rise in prices, keep external deficits in check and increase the national growth rate. We can all subscribe to these.

If I concentrated on certain parts of the Budget Statement or if I bored the House I ask for indulgence but at present the problems of job security, not to mention job opportunity, pay and living conditions are causing concern at many levels as well as at Government level. I am also glad that the Minister made quite clear the methods he proposes to use to halt the evil cycle which has affected us for the past three years and which we hope to leave behind us on entering the 1975 or 1980 period. If we cannot put this pattern behind us we shall not make the progress we would hope to make and we shall not fulfil any of the targets we set ourselves in the past. Whatever about the past, it is the future that counts. I suggest it would be to our eternal discredit if, after almost 50 years of self-government, we were not able to find a way out of the difficulties that beset us.

Deputy Carter has just said that it is the future that counts. I could not agree more. One reason why I am speaking this evening is that I want to refer particularly to the future of the social welfare classes, especially the widows. Like Deputy Carter, I had hoped when a motion was moved here in the names of four Fine Gael Deputies including myself, prior to the Budget, and was accepted unanimously, that the lot of the widows would be improved. Unfortunately, in the Budget Statement and its provisions there is little improvement for them. In fact, it would be fair to say there is none at all when we allow for the decrease in the value of the money and the increase in the cost of living generally. The widows of Ireland, who I described during the discussion and everybody accepts as the most neglected section of the community, after the Budget Statement must look forward to another year of the untold misery in which they now live.

During that debate I said, and I shall repeat here, that the social welfare code as it applies to widows is morally unjust and should trouble the national conscience. I have no doubt that that statement was accepted by every Member of the House. I had hoped the Minister for Social Welfare would be able to impress on the Minister for Finance before he made his Budget Speech the significance of those sentiments. It appears that while the Minister for Social Welfare paid lip-service to the widows in the debate on that motion he was not able to persuade his colleague the Minister for Finance to do anything appreciable for them. That is a pity. They have asked me as Fine Gael spokesman for social welfare matters to express their disappointment and one of the principal reasons why I am speaking on the last evening of the Budget debate is to do so. Before the Minister for Finance introduces his next Budget — and goodness knows when that will be; it could be next week or the week after, because in these days we are used to having five or six Budgets in the year—I appeal to him to think of that special section of the community who we all agree deserve more from the Government.

The non-contributory old age pensioners have expressed disappointment, and are entitled so to do, with the Budget Statement. The amount of the increase they will get later, if they live long enough, will not compensate for the increase in the cost of living which has taken place since they got their last increase 12 months ago. It is fair to say that they too have the sympathy not only of the Members of this House but of all the people outside it.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs at Question Time yesterday told the House that many people were going to sunny Spain for their holidays. If that is so, and he seemed to take pride in that fact, it is a sad commentary on us that we are not more kind to the unfortunate section of our people who have to depend on social welfare.

Five new pennies a week for an average of three years.

The Parliamentary Secretary's colleague Deputy Carter said we should look to the future and I began my remarks by saying that was my intention and that is what I am doing now. It would not become the Parliamentary Secretary's party to talk about taking the shilling off the old age pensioners because I shall be referring to the taking away of the dole in a few minutes. I think those things are best forgotten.

I will not go that far. Let us look forward.

That is my intention. With regard to the social welfare classes in general it is true to say, and I say this sincerely, that we should take cognisance of the hardships they have to endure. Indeed we should give more attention, not only at Budget time but in our discussions throughout the year, to their needs and their requirements.

With regard to the dole we have already had a discussion on it and it is not my intention to go back on it again, but I must express the view that it was inhuman, to put it mildly, to take away the dole from those people who are genuinely unemployed and who have no prospect of getting work and many from whom the dole has been taken were in that category.

Half a million pounds was made available to help them.

I agree that a certain amount of money was made available to help them but little of it was sent to Cork city or Cork county. I wonder how any Minister for Social Welfare, any Minister for Finance or any Taoiseach can imagine that the people of west, east and north Cork can live on nothing whereas the people in the west of Ireland must get some work when the dole is taken from them?

Is there a serious unemployment question in Cork?

I am coming to that.

I did not think there was.

I am talking more about Cork county than about Cork city but in any case the withdrawal of the dole was something which should be seriously reconsidered by the Minister for Social Welfare and the Government. This order came at a time when there were redundancies and consequent unemployment. Whether we like it or not the plain fact is that there are some 70,000 persons unemployed and it does not give me any satisfaction to quote that figure. It is also true to say that quite a number of people are on short-time and part-time employment. At a time when that was happening it was practically inhuman to withdraw the dole from these people.

It is a pity the Minister for Finance did not think it worth his while to consider some relief in company tax which stands at 58 per cent which I think it is right to say is the highest rate in Europe. The corresponding British tax is 40 per cent. Many unthinking people may be disposed to say that company tax at 58 per cent is right and proper and that those who are able to pay should be made to do so. This is a complete fallacy. Over-taxed companies cannot expand and cannot afford to be enterprising. Their biggest problem is to keep from going bankrupt. The result of this 58 per cent company tax is that factories are closing down with consequent redundancies. Industry is going through a rough time at the moment because it is being forced to carry unbearable burdens. Industry is more highly taxed here than in any other country in the world and we are far from being the most prosperous country in the world. There was no inducement in the Budget to people to invest in Irish industry. The result of all this will be more unemployment and more short-time working.

The Parliamentary Secretary has asked me if there is serious unemployment in Cork. I said I was referring more to Cork county than to Cork city but I refer more particularly to my own constituency, Cork North East. On today's Order Paper there is a question in my name addressed to the Minister for Industry and Commerce asking if he is aware of the serious unemployment situation which prevails in Mallow town and if he has any hope of doing anything to help. There are 300 more persons unemployed in the town of Mallow and district than there were 12 months ago.

It is also true to say that there are more people on short time in the town of Mallow than there were 12 months ago. In fact, 12 months ago short-time or part-time working was unknown there. This is a serious situation. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance leads me to believe that the Government are not aware of this situation and it behoves us, therefore, as rural Deputies to mention here what really is happening in the country.

I have referred to the town of Mallow. In both Midleton and Youghal there are also many more unemployed and there are many on short-time. Deputies must have read last week of the closing down of Blackwater Cottons in Youghal, leaving some 200 to 300 persons unemployed. It is said they will be taken back in some weeks time. I hope that is true. The position in North East Cork from the point of view of industry, employment and unemployment is anything but bright. I am wondering what these people will do. In the list of factories mentioned by the IDA there is no mention of any Cork location for any of them. In my home town of Fermoy there are quite a number of people signing on at the labour exchange, people who would be willing and anxious to work but the work is unfortunately not there for them.

Since I came into this House 16 or 17 years ago I have been imploring successive Ministers for Industry and Commerce and successive Ministers for Finance to give us some more help. A little industry has started recently in Fermoy and we are grateful for that little. It is proving helpful to quite a few families. The town of Fermoy, which suffered so much in achieving freedom for this State, has not been properly looked after by those in high places. That is true not only of Fermoy but of other towns as well. Even though we have a Corkman as Taoiseach the emphasis is still on Dublin and all that goes on in and around it. I appeal to the Taoiseach, to the Government, to the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Industry and Commerce to make preparations, before our entry into the EEC, to ensure that, whether we enter or whether we do not, more notice will be taken of rural Ireland. Rural Ireland is being denuded of its population. The flight from the land is as vigorous now as it was some years ago. I accept Deputy Carter's statement that emigration has been slowed down, but no one will convince me that there are more people now in rural Ireland than there were ten years ago. There are not. It is a pity. I am just wondering if we will ever get a Government which will tackle this problem of keeping our Irish boys and girls in the areas in which they were lucky enough to be born and reared. I hope a serious effort will be made from now on to locate industry in rural Ireland especially in those parts of it in which workers are available but can find no work to do.

Great efforts have been made to encourage tourism. We are told that next to agriculture tourism is our biggest industry. I accept that. Great efforts were made to encourage tourists to my part of the country and results were quite good. However, this Budget strikes a blow at tourism, a deadly blow. Our main attraction was food, goods and services at attractive prices. We can no longer offer this attraction. We can no longer give tourists the value we used to, a value they could not get in other countries. The pint is increased by one new penny or 2½d in the old currency. The glass of spirits has been increased by two new pence or 4.8d in the old currency. If we do not take a serious look at our prices generally the hotels to which substantial grants were given will be looking for people and will find themselves with empty rooms on their hands.

I said earlier that my main plea would be for the social welfare classes. I have here a list of comparative prices published in the Sunday Independent last Sunday. I should like to put some of the prices on record: the price of 1 lb of sirloin steak in 1966 was 5s. 11¼d; the price today is 9s 6d. That is a 99.97 per cent increase since 1957. The lb of butter was 4s 8d in 1966; it is 5s 2d today, an increase of 16.6 per cent since 1957. The 2 lb loaf was 1s 6¼d in 1966; it is 2s 2d today, an increase of 92.92 per cent. The list is quite long and the increases are really staggering. If someone, somehow, some time soon does not do something to control prices the cost of living here from the point of view not only of the tourist but of the people at home will be quite impossible. No one will be able to enjoy anything like frugal comfort.

Deputy Carter said that more money was provided for housing this year. That may be so, but is it not also true that the cost of housing, of labour and materials is much higher now than it was this time 12 months? Is it not also true to say, therefore, that, with the small increase in the money available, fewer houses are likely to be built this year than last year, and this in spite of the fact we all accept that there is a housing crisis that badly needs to be tackled and has to be tackled in a crash way by some Government in the near future? A semi-detached house that was purchased 2½ years ago for £5,500 made £8,400 last week. That figure itself gives some idea of the way prices are going. I want to suggest to the Minister something that perhaps has not been mentioned already and to which I wish him to give consideration. In section 1 of the 1969 Finance Act complete tax exemption was given to artists, writers, sculptors and others whose work was deemed to be of artistic merit. That tax exemption has been applied to persons resident in Ireland even though they were not Irish citizens. However, no mention has been made of Irish inventors whose work is not only creative but also adds to the prosperity of the country and benefits our balance of payments. In this modern technological age it is essential to the development of the economy that we do all we can to help the Irish inventor and to encourage him to remain in Ireland. As a matter of interest, in 1969-70 the sale of foreign patent rights earned for British investors over £80 million. I hope the Minister will give serious consideration to including Irish inventors among those exempted from tax.

Borrowing by the Government is now so high that they are finding it difficult to raise any more capital. It takes one-fifth of the current revenue to service the national debt and the cost of servicing it is a strain on this Budget. If £100 million is borrowed abroad — and this is a point on which I am subject to correction, but this is my interpretation of it, and goodness knows we are too prone to borrowing abroad these days — with the float in the currency it will be found that we pay back £120 million plus the interest on the amount borrowed. This is a point I have never seen raised by the Minister for Finance or anyone else. If this is so, we should be doubly careful of the amount we borrow abroad and from whom we borrow it.

I have already referred to the denuding of rural Ireland. It is a tragedy to see small businesses in the towns and villages of Ireland having to fold up. If taxation keeps on increasing through local rates and national taxation the situation will become worse and more and more supermarkets and other businesses run by foreign combines will be taking over. I am suggesting now, as I did some few years ago, that serious note should be taken of this and, if at all possible, restrictions imposed. If my information is right most of the money involved in the running of supermarkets is foreign-owned and if there is evidence to sustain this contention the Government should tackle the problem without delay.

The people are taking serious note of the way the country is being run. They believe, as we in these benches do, that it is impossible for the Taoiseach and his Ministers to settle down properly to the job of running the economy in difficult times if there is so much internal fighting and bitterness.

That is not true. The majority decisions of our party are accepted.

I am saying what the people are thinking and I am elected here to represent and express their views.

The view the Deputy is expressing is not a true one.

I am convinced that they are right.

I am surprised at the Deputy.

As an observer here over the past 12 months — and it is not often I am given to making statements I cannot stand over or do not believe to be true——

The Deputy cannot stand over that one, whether he believes it or not.

If Deputy Lemass, the Parliamentary Secretary, wants to say that there are no divisions within the Government——

No crisis.

What I am saying is that the Government party accept majority decisions and any member who cannot accept majority decisions can get out.

The problem is that they will not get out.

They are neither in nor out. They are half in and half out.

There is less division in Fianna Fáil than in Fine Gael, and Labour is even worse.

The Parliamentary Secretary should have heard the comments of some of the members of his party at Question Time today. Do not be codding yourself. You must have about ten parties.

We represent every section of the community.

(Interruptions.)

Of course there are differences of opinion.

On the North?

On every issue of importance.

Republicans, how are you?

I was just saying I was expressing the view of the ordinary people.

The Deputy is meeting different people from those I meet.

That is the trouble. We meet the ordinary people——

So do I.

——and unfortunately some of the Government Ministers do not.

I have two clinics a week at which everybody can see me. I am not unavailable to anyone.

I was expressing the view that the ordinary working people, professional people, farmers and shopkeepers I meet daily in my travels around north-east Cork and, indeed, a good part of southern Ireland, are rather alarmed at the way the country is being run. They believe it is time for this Government to go into opposition and to settle their differences there. The Taoiseach should sit down and consider this matter coolly. He visited Cork city last week and I know he met a good cross-section of the people. I have no doubt that in their honest Cork way they told the Taoiseach the way the people of Cork city were feeling in regard to the Government. As Deputy Tully has reminded me, I never saw in my 17 years here a Taoiseach and Ministers that appeared to be so glum and so out of sorts with themselves and everyone else as they were at Question Time today.

It was a good job they had not got eyes in the backs of their heads to see what the backbenchers were doing.

Stuff and nonsense.

This suggests to me that there is something in the offing.

There is something on again today.

This is for the local press. I did not interrupt the Deputy until he started talking "bull" as we call it.

I do not think I ever interrupted Deputy Lemass but he has helped me to tell a bit of the plain truth here in the last few minutes.

I want to conclude by saying that I believe, having seen the expression on the Taoiseach's face and on the faces of his Ministers at Question Time and after it here today — I have not seen them so glum for some time — there is something in the offing and the sooner that comes out of the "offing" and on to the platforms of Ireland the better the people will like it.

Deputy Lemass said that every decision of the Government is a majority decision of the Fianna Fáil Party. This Budget helps to disprove that statement. I believe and the vast majority of the people of the country are fully convinced that three people were responsible for this Budget. The three people are Deputies Blaney, Haughey and Foley.

A socialist Budget, according to Deputy Dr. Browne.

He did not say that. He corrected that in this House and his speech here told you whether it was a socialist Budget.

I did not hear his speech but I read that somewhere.

You did. In the Minister for Justice's brother's magazine.

What is the name of it?

I do not know. I never bother to read it.

The reason why these three people helped to frame this Budget is that the Taoiseach and the members of the Cabinet were afraid that, if they brought in the type of Budget that was necessary, these three men and their supporters in this House would have voted against the Government on the Budget. It is a Budget brought in out of fear that these men would vote against the Government. The Government had seen what happened on the dole issue and they were afraid to risk Deputy Lenehan being followed into the Opposition lobby.

The three men the Deputy has mentioned voted on the dole issue with the Government.

We are never surprised at who votes for anything no matter what they say in advance.

Deputy Enright should keep his points together.

Did Deputy Foley vote on the dole issue?

This is not Question Time.

The Parliamentary Secretary interrupted me. He said that what I said was wrong. I am asking him this question: did Deputy Foley vote on the dole issue? The Parliamentary Secretary has said he did.

The Deputy will continue his remarks without inviting interruptions.

When a Parliamentary Secretary makes a statement one would expect it to be reasonably accurate.

The Deputy mentioned other people.

I mentioned Deputies Haughey, Blaney and Foley. The Parliamentary Secretary said I was wrong. I am asking him whether I am right or wrong.

Two of the three voted.

The Parliamentary Secretary said they all voted.

I said get your facts right. Do not try to tie it up into a neat little backbencher package and throw it at the public as if it were the truth. The public will not fall for that any more than I would.

If Deputy Enright would be allowed to make his contribution——

I would hope that the public are a little bit quicker on the uptake than the Parliamentary Secretary is. I was making the point that these people were responsible for the Budget which we have before the House.

Deputy Haughey at one time went on radio and television and spoke about a grave financial crisis. It made all the headlines and got full radio and television coverage. All sections of the community were warned that the country was facing a serious financial situation. When the Minister for Finance took the drastic step of requisitioning time on radio and television we were all of the opinion that what he was saying was true. We believed him because he was speaking as Minister for Finance. Suddenly, because there was an election at hand, the crisis evaporated. Things like this should not happen. If there is a crisis it should be treated as such. The people of this country are intelligent enough to recognise a crisis when one occurs. They would act in a responsible manner if a crisis were at hand but the crisis we were told about appeared to evaporate overnight.

A few months later, when Deputy Colley had been appointed Minister for Finance, he told us that again we were facing a serious financial situation. Again, suddenly the situation seemed to improve overnight. There is a crisis, we are all warned to be responsible in our attitudes, then the crisis disappears. This is not good for the economy. This is too serious a matter to be treated in that way. When somebody speaks as Minister for Finance, representing the Government, wo would all hope that what he says is true and accurate and to be acted upon.

Leading public opinion.

I shall ignore the remarks of the Parliamentary Secretary.

He does not know any better.

If such a situation existed we would all act in a responsible way but at present we just do not know what the exact situation is. However, we know that in 1968, 1969 and 1970 prices rose each year by over 7 per cent. I wonder if the Parliamentary Secretary believes that. I can quote from the Irish Times of Thursday, April 29th:

He admitted that between 1968 and 1970 prices had increased by an average of 7 per cent a year.

Surely such an increase, when the average increase in productivity was less than 4 per cent, means that prices are getting out of hand?

At present there is grave industrial unrest. There is leap-frogging. The present Government are responsible for this situation. When one sees Members of the Government party showing naked ambition, each one striving for a higher position, each one trying to amass a greater personal fortune than the next——

I hope the Deputy is not being personal.

Such a situation is bound to have repercussions throughout the country. If the example given by the Government is good the people will follow it, and sad to say if the example is bad, as it is now, the people will follow it too. Therefore we have a situation in which the workers are following the bad example of the Government. I am sorry to say the strike situation is drastic. We have had strike following strike in the country during the past few years and the economy is seriously suffering. In this Budget some proposals might have been made to try to remedy this situation, to try to avoid further strikes, but there are no such proposals.

The social welfare provisions in the Budget are worthy of mention not because of the efforts that have been made by the Government to improve the position of people drawing benefits but because of the small extra contribution the Government have made. One sees old age non-contributory pensioners getting £4.25 a week, an increase of 40p.

It is better than the Coalition could do anyway — 10p in three years.

From the time Fianna Fáil got into office in 1932 until they left in 1948 they did not give any increase.

They gave nothing to the old age pensioners for 16 years.

Every major step forward in social legislation has been made by Fianna Fáil.

It took them 16 years to take the first one.

Since we exploded the myth that coalition could be effective we have made more strides in social welfare legislation than ever before. A majority decision is taken by us.

I should like to read a letter to you, Deputy Lemass.

Will Deputy Enright address the Chair?

Will the Parliamentary Secretary address the Chair?

The Chair will be addressed by all sides.

I will read some sections from a letter that I received:

As regards my social welfare weekly pay of £6.25 which is stopped on me since 27th March, that is the last day I received any pay from them. I was expecting another pay on April and again on April 10th, which was Easter Saturday. I was not notified why my money was not sent on. I was left nearly hungry for Easter. I had not a bit in house for myself and wife. Since, nothing was sent on and I have sent several letters to both secretaries and I have also addressed letters to the Minister in Social Welfare. All were ignored and I was still left hungry. I am on this social money for the past 12 years. I have had seven operations immediately after one another. I was anointed and given up at that time. Doctors all said I would never be fit for work again. I had three parts of my stomach removed and two guts joined, one the bows gut. I have an abdomen belt to support stomach and received a new belt this week from my council, as I had been ordered by my doctors to get this new belt. I am suffering ventral hernia, gastric stomach, bronchial chest and arthritis on spine.

This would be a matter of detail which the Deputy could take up on the appropriate Estimate.

I understand from Deputy Enright that this is a letter addressed to me.

No, to me. I wanted to point out——

I should like it to go out that anybody, regardless of political persuasion, can write to me and he will be replied to. He will never be asked what his politics are. I have a strict rule about that.

The point I am making, and it is true, is that this much vaunted social welfare system that the Deputy talked about and about which he blew so high and mighty——

Every step forward in this field was by Fianna Fáil. Is the Deputy trying to say we are dissatisfied? He is right. We are not satisfied.

We are not discussing social welfare at the moment.

It is time this brand of social welfare was stopped.

The Chair will not tolerate this kind of cross talk about details of Estimates.

My sincere apologies. I thought the Deputy was referring to a letter addressed to me.

I apologise for not keeping to the Budget but I thought this was a matter that should have been brought out.

It was the voice of an unfortunate person in this country.

I brought to the attention of the House the voice of one person. I am sorry to say there are thousands.

I receive them, too.

I am sure the Deputy does.

The Government are not satisfied but they are trying to progress.

I hope they are. There are 144 Deputies in the House and each has a grave responsibility to ensure that such situations do not come about. In this Budget there is a sum of £3.1 million towards social welfare improvements. I believe that at the moment the Department of Social Welfare are in drastic need of re-organisation and that this £3.1 million is not sufficient. A far greater sum should have been given to the Department to ensure that there is proper staffing. Mr. Michael Mullen recently referred to the Department of Social Welfare. I believe that much of what he said is true but I also honestly believe that the Department try to be courteous and helpful. They are understaffed. I have been in the Department and I believe it is impossible to work under the conditions they have to work under.

Again, the Chair must remind the Deputy that we cannot go into the details of an Estimate on a Budget debate.

I do not intend to do so. The point I am making is that there is a sum of £3.1 million allocated to improvements in social welfare.

It is £3.65 million.

I bow to the superior knowledge of the Parliamentary Secretary. A greater sum of money should be paid to the Department of Social Welfare so that proper reorganisation can be carried out to ensure that situations like this do not occur. If they occur, as sometimes it can happen, we should make sure that the impact is much less than it is at the moment. Many of the people who apply for social welfare increases and for social welfare benefits are left waiting for eight to ten weeks generally.

The Chair will have to insist that the Deputy leave that aspect.

The employment period order was an utter disgrace. Any Government worthy of the name of a Government should not bring in such an order in this day and age. This is something that Charles Dickens would have written about. It is something we would have expected in his time, but not in this day and age.

The question of Irish exports of agricultural products to France was referred to today. Deputy L'Estrange pointed out that there is a difference of £50 million in our business transactions with France. Our imports from France have increased by £50 million. The appointment of skilled sales representatives to European countries to which we export our goods should be considered. We have not sufficient representatives in the countries in which we are looking for markets. If we had more top class sales representatives at home we would be able to procure further export markets. Some of the titles of many of our boards are not suitable for business transactions.

This is not appropriate to a Budget debate.

If the Chair so rules I will not continue further on it. A sum of £.5 million is provided in the Budget this year for local improvements schemes. This will create additional employment opportunities in rural areas, especially in the west. In Offaly at present the local improvements schemes are being held up because of lack of finance. There is a backlog of approximately three years in most councils throughout the country. They have not received their contributions in most cases for over three years. I believe that the contribution of £.5 million is not sufficient to clear up this backlog.

There is widespread unemployment throughout the country approximately 70,000 people being unemployed. If a realistic sum of money was given to local improvements schemes it might help to provide jobs for many of the people who are unemployed in rural areas.

With regard to the increase in the price of beer and spirits I believe the tax on imported spirits is not as great as it might be in comparison with our home produced spirits. Our home produced spirits are not receiving sufficient protection against the imported products. The price of imported brandy and wines is very high but I believe there should be a greater tax on them than there is on Irish spirits. Nobody would crib about such an increase because it would give a boost to our home produced spirits which have not been getting the protection they deserve. The manufacture of spirits gives employment in Dublin, Cork and other parts of the country. If extra tax was imposed on imported spirits it would lead to a greater consumption of the home produced product and would mean further employment.

A new penny has been added to the tax on beer and stout. Those products are usually increased in price after every Budget. The increased taxes on those products are too closely in line with those on spirits. Beer and stout, from a health point of view, are easier on a person than spirits. A greater number of young people are drinking spirits as anybody who frequents bars, lounges and hotels will see. If the price of beer and stout was not so high people would be encouraged to drink them instead of spirits. From a health point of view it would be a good thing and it would ensure that at least the working man could enjoy one of the pleasures of life. This is something into which the Minister and his Department might look.

The increased taxation on stout and beer is causing grave unrest in the Guinness company. We have seen the danger this may give rise to in regard to further extensions of Guinness's. It would be a sad thing if the good relations which exist between Guinness's and the State were to be affected in any way. We hope that the present good relations will continue to exist. However, the ever-increasing taxation on their products is causing grave unrest in the firm and perhaps serious damage to the firm. Great care should be taken in the preparation of future Budgets so that these good relations will not be damaged. This firm is one of the biggest and best employers in the country. The conditions under which their workers operate are satisfactory, the workers are happy, they are paid well and they are looked after not only at work but in their social life as well. It would be a pity to kill the golden goose.

The increased taxation on beer and spirits and the high taxation on cigarettes are all upsetting the tourist industry and the prices of these items have driven away a lot of tourists. Ordinary Irish people working in England are very often reluctant to come home here for their holidays because of these prices and the tendency is for them to go to other countries because they have only a limited amount of money to spend. If the prices here are excessive we will drive them away from this country. For this reason we should look into this matter very carefully.

I am sorry that greater efforts were not made in the Budget to stimulate employment as the employment position is serious. Again, the social welfare improvements are not adequate. I had hoped that they would have been better. Generally the Budget is unsatisfactory. I hope that some of the remarks I have made will be considered by the Minister when he is preparing future Budgets.

We all know that the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance is a quiet, genial sort of Deputy who very rarely gets upset or disturbed in the House.

What is wrong with the present Parliamentary Secretary?

He has nothing good to say about me, anyway.

Well, he has a slightly different temperament, if I might say so. I must say I was greatly surprised when I saw the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Lemass, becoming so upset when Deputy Dick Barry was expressing a sincere and honest view in regard to the present situation and of the way the Government were failing to act in the interests of the country. He had dealt very fairly and clearly with the Budget and he finished up by giving his opinion as to what should be done. Immediately Deputy Lemass practically blew up. It is quite obvious that Deputy Barry was hitting Deputy Lemass on a very tender spot, a spot on which the Government know they cannot afford to get another knock, they have got so many already.

However, we are on the Budget and it is as well to stick to the Budget. The plain fact is that the difficulties and problems facing the country cannot be solved by a Budget no matter who tries to frame it. To this extent one might be inclined to sympathise with the Minister but in so far as he happens to be a member of a Government who have brought this whole situation about he must, with his Cabinet colleagues, bear the entire responsibility. For the past two years we have had no Government, or worse still we have had a Government who spent so much of their time and were so pre-occupied washing their own dirty linen both inside and outside the House, in public and in private, that irreparable damage has been done to the State, damage from which we are not likely to recover until we see the end of Fianna Fáil.

There are many divisions and much dissension within the party. Decisions reached today have to be altered tomorrow, or completely abandoned the day after, because of disagreements within the party about policies and personalities and because of the fear that forever haunts them that they will be defeated in a vote in this House. No Government resting on such foundations could possibly do the nation's business and in no other country in Europe would this type of conduct be tolerated. Everywhere I go I am asked "When are you going to get rid of this crew?" Unfortunately the people do not understand what is required and for far too long they have been in this position. They have been hurling from the fence. They do not realise that in order to get rid of the present scourge of Fianna Fáil the people must work actively to get them out. I hope that the people have seen the light and that they will not be asking "When are you getting rid of that crew?" as if they had no part to play. People realise that a chaotic situation has been reached and that it is time the whole scene was changed.

Last year at the time of the sackings we had a Budget into which neither thought nor work was put. There was the crude device of doubling the turnover tax. In this way approximately £20 million was taken, mainly out of the pockets of the working-class people. These people immediately set about getting this money back. They were assisted ably by the trade unions. The retailers likewise took advantage of the situation. A spate of industrial disputes followed. There was the cement strike, which did irreparable damage to the housing industry and to employment. There was the bank strike, which destroyed so many people and firms. This was followed by the teachers' strike which probably did more damage and was one of the most serious strikes. The Government must bear full responsibility for the discontent and disruption of the teaching profession.

This is a matter for discussion in the debate on the Estimate for the Department of Education.

I appreciate this, but it is hard to deal with the situation where we have a Government who are not doing their job. It must be pointed out that the teachers' discontent indicates failure on the part of the Government. This situation cannot be cured by the Budget. I bring in these points to emphasise the effects of these disruptions on employment and on the economy generally. We have had the worst period of unemployment for a long time. The attitudes adopted are giving rise to many other ailments which stem from dissatisfaction and discontent with the Government. These are not just my comments. The criticism of the Government is not just my own. Each week we hear a speech by some ex-Minister or ex-Parliamentary Secretary who resigned from the Fianna Fáil Party, in which the speaker expresses his thankfulness that he is no longer in the group which has done so much damage.

The Chair does not wish to interrupt, but the Deputy has only another minute before the speaker for the Labour Party is called on. The Order of Business provided for the calling of the Labour Party speaker at 7.45 p.m.

It is not possible in the short time remaining to me to deal with the situation. I would like to quote from some remarks made. The Allied Irish Investment Bank said:

Much of the comment in the media over the past few days was totally predictable. Spokesmen for sectors of the community or sectors of business usually speak only for the sectoral interests which they represent. One does not expect them to be objective. There is one sector, however, where the danger signs have been showing for some time — Irish industry. Many people have made reference to the necessity to alleviate the present burden of taxation — we would like to spell out the reasons why —

Just at the point where the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement is beginning to really bite, companies with a chronic necessity to plough back the maximum funds for reinvestment purposes, find taxation at peak levels.

To invest internally, a company must generate funds internally and/or borrow externally. A company's capacity to borrow externally will depend to a large extent on both its existing internal cash flow and its ability to repay the borrowing in a specific time.

The Chair must interrupt the Deputy at this stage.

I was anxious to develop the point of the 58 per cent. That is one of the things which is ruining us in this country from the point of view of industrial development, industrial expansion and consequent unemployment.

This could not be described as a very exciting Budget. The motives behind it are difficult to discern. I suggest that it indicates a preoccupation or a taking-out of insurance against the possibility of a general election this year. It did not need any great imagination or financial wizardry to impose certain taxes and to distribute them in a certain way. Any boy with a leaving certificate could have done the same things. These things do not show the slightest imagination. There are no dramatic changes in any section of this Budget which might cure our ills at the present time. This Budget would be all right in circumstances where the economy was on an even keel or where we had an improving economy. From the information we got from the Minister in his original speech the opposite is the case. The Minister for Finance did a disservice to himself and to the country when he did not give us a complete review of 1970. As a matter of fact, I went to the trouble of counting the number of words the Minister used under the heading "Review of 1970". They totalled 175 words. I do not think that is good enough. There may have been references to 1970 in other portions of his speech but his review was confined to two things.

The Minister told us, as if we did not know already, that consumer prices had risen by 8¼ per cent in 1970. He did not tell us why. The last Budget, which was introduced by the Taoiseach who was acting for the Minister for Finance, was responsible for the greater proportion of that increase in consumer prices. No effort was made to tell us what went wrong. This increase was a result of the doubling of the turnover tax by the Government. The Minister in that brief review of 1970 told us that the national output expanded by 1½ per cent in the year 1970. He did not give us any other reasons for the smallness of the expansion, but went on to talk about the sluggishness caused mainly by industrial disputes. Perhaps the Minister should have talked about them at greater length. The Minister never told us about the Government inactivity or its preoccupation during 1970 with the internal strife in their own party.

There is no point in people talking about our record for strikes or the fact that we are at the top of the European table in this matter. Deputy Dr. Hillery and other Ministers who have gone abroad have said that Irish workers are better than those in other countries. We should try to discover the cause of the loss of many hours through strikes and lockouts, notably the bank lockout which lasted for six or seven months last year. Do the Government not realise that they have upset workers over the last few years by taxation and by allowing prices to rise without any control whatever?

There are calls from various sides of the House for new industrial legislation. If this industrial legislation is the kind of repressive legislation the Government have thought about in the past, it will not cure the ills of loss of work or loss of productivity through strikes or lock-outs. The new legislation must not be confined to issues of wages or salaries, hours of employment, holidays, et cetera. What we are advocating — and I want to put this in a positive fashion to the Minister for Finance — is the introduction of legislation providing for participation by workers involving utilisation of resources employed by an enterprise or organisation.

It was encouraging to hear Deputy L'Estrange advocating something like what I am advocating here tonight, namely, the introduction of legislation to provide for worker democracy and worker participation. I spoke to Deputy L'Estrange after his speech and I trust that what the Deputy said in his contribution is the declared policy of Fine Gael——

It was announced prior to the last general election.

I know that what we are advocating cannot be done overnight but a start should be made. Some few hundred years ago, people were astounded when political democracy was introduced. The natural consequence of political democracy is worker democracy. The main argument for this is not altogether economic in that it would mean a more stable method of industrial relations but that it would apply the democratic system to work. We should start to lay down guidelines for transition from the autocratic system we have now to a properly established democratic system. There are many who would pay lip-service to this and this is why I spoke with Deputy L'Estrange after his speech. Many people pay lip-service to the idea of worker democracy not knowing what it is — the idea being that there would be participation, in the vague way described or practised, such as profit sharing or works councils. These are only methods employed to keep workers happy for a time.

I was appalled yesterday when I asked the Minister for Labour if it was his intention to introduce legislation to provide for worker democracy. The Minister did not have a clue what it was all about; he mumbled something about free collective bargaining. It has nothing to do with worker democracy and it is not closely related to industrial relations. Worker democracy means participation by workers in decision-making in their place of employment, whether in business, in the factory, or anywhere else. There is no point in that kind of participation about which the Minister for Labour spoke in something over which you have no control. Those who work with hand or brain are the most important element of industry or business and they should have equal control with people who provide money for the establishment or running of a business.

Deputy Andrews described the Budget as one with a social conscience merely because we gave another few shillings to old age pensioners, to widows and orphans and deserted wives. We welcome the reliefs that have been given to those people but this kind of juggling can be done in any Budget at any time by any Minister. Our problems are much more deep-rooted. In his statement on the outlook for 1971, in a paragraph of about 160 words, the Minister said that the economy is on the mend. May I say to the Minister that there is no evidence of that yet? If we consider the rate of redundancy in the last 12 months we will see that the opposite is the case. In the year ended 30th April, 1971, some 10,618 people were rendered redundant in agriculture, in industry and in the services. The Budget provided for more money for AnCO and for retraining. It is legitimate to ask the question: retraining for what?

I do not think there has been any real attempt to solve our national problems. It is the duty of the Government to try to solve the problems and the duty of the Opposition to suggest to the Government that a start must be made in order to get to the root cause of the difficulties. Bearing in mind that we have had a Cumann na nGaedheal Government, two inter-Party Governments and Fianna Fáil Governments for a long time, I do not think it is an unfair comment to state that after 50 years we have failed in what we set out to do when we first got a measure of independence. We failed in the political field in that we have Partition and we failed in the social field in that we have not succeeded in halting rural depopulation: we failed to give jobs to Irish people, to stem emigration and to provide adequate housing and social welfare.

We have had 50 wasted years. I appreciate the difficulties of the Governments in the 1920s and 1930s in the efforts they made at a difficult time to build up what one could regard as a young nation so far as the development of agriculture and industry was concerned. However, there is no excuse for those who have been in power for the past 14 years — years that can be described as wasted years.

Members on the backbenches of Fianna Fáil, as well as those on the front bench, blame everyone but themselves, instead of making frank and open admission that they have been damned with political bankruptcy and mediocrity in the last 14 years. They have underestimated the magnitude of our national problems and they have not learned from those whose advice they sought — for example, the National Industrial and Economic Council. The report on full employment was produced in 1966; it was recognised in the Second and Third Programmes for Economic Expansion, but nothing was done. The report is five years old and as this Government may drag the country in the next two years into the EEC there must be an up-to-date report on full employment.

Nothing was done as a result of this important and valuable report. Does the Minister think that anything can be done under the present system? Does he think, like former Fianna Fáil Governments, that our present system of private enterprise will give the necessary growth of jobs, security and equality? It has not done so and I do not feel it will do so in the years to come.

We have a certain amount of sympathy with those dissidents in Fianna Fáil who say now, usually in their notices of resignation, that the party is not the real Fianna Fáil Party any more. There is some validity in that. When Fianna Fáil assumed office in the early 1930s there was some hope for the country because they appeared then to be a republican and socialist party. It is true that they took the initiative in certain fields, for instance, in the establishment of semi-State industries. They seemed to have a good concept of the development of industry but we have been hearing ad nauseam from them and, in particular, from the Taoiseach, that this is a private enterprise economy. But it is a private enterprise economy that has not got what we wanted, particularly in so far as employment is concerned. I suppose it might be said at the time Fianna Fáil took the initiative in the establishing of semi-State bodies in certain areas they did so because these developments were unattractive to private enterprise. We have many examples of that. In any case, the truth is that with our utter dependence on private enterprise in so far as employment is concerned, we are back to square one or, worse still, to minus square one, if there is such a thing.

I have no desire to quote figures but the following are significant. In the year 1926 the number of persons at work in this country was 1,220,000. In 1966 that figure had dropped to 1,066,000 and in 1970 it was that same figure of 1,066,000. Therefore, in relation to employment we have not advanced in the overall by as much as one job between 1966 and 1970. People such as Deputy Paddy Burke will say that we are better off now than ever we were 50 years ago. Of course we are. We are better off now than we were 15 years ago but may be we are better off because during the past 50 years one million people have been forced to emigrate, particularly to Great Britain. We may be better off but we are still the fifth poorest country in Western Europe because during the past 15 years we did not catch up with other European countries.

Somebody today said it is a shame on Irish Governments that during that particular period we did not do the job that we should have done and could have done. As a matter of fact other European countries progressed much faster than we did and left us further behind although most of them had suffered the ravishes of war. It is not very pleasant to read a sad litany of failures but I shall endeavour to do so briefly. During the past 50 years we have lost a million people through emigration; our unemployment rate is the highest in Europe and during the sixties 100,000 people have left the lands of rural Ireland. There were only 11,000 more people at work in 1970 than there were in 1960. I do not have to give figures for that as I am sure the Minister knows them very well.

The NIEC estimated that in that particular decade we would need 100,000 new jobs but we did not get anywhere near the target. Our economic growth slowed down considerably. In 1967-68 it was 5 per cent, in 1969 it was 3¾ per cent, in 1970 it was less than 2 per cent and the projection for 1971 is 2¾ per cent. Yet the Minister tells us that the economy is on the mend. If an extra 2¾ per cent means that the economy is on the mend, the prospects for this country are not good in terms of economic growth. For the past three consecutive years our growth rate has been less than 4 per cent. One is tempted to ask of what use was the Third Programme for Economic Expansion; of what use was the advice given to the Government in the Report of the NIEC on Full Employment. Industrial growth in 1968 was 10 per cent, in 1969 it was 6 per cent and for the first nine months of 1970 it was 4½ per cent.

Need we talk at any great length of the problem we have with regard to our balance of payments? This is an indication of how that aspect of our economy has deteriorated within a very short period. In 1967 there was a surplus of £15 million but that surplus was converted to a deficit of £63 million in 1970 and, so far as I am aware, the projection for 1971 is a deficit of £80 million. Of course it would have been much more but for the inflow of foreign capital, a lot of which was used to buy Irish land and to buy up Irish establishments and industries. The figures I have quoted give an indication of how serious is the situation and they give rise to a number of questions.

I do not hear many boasts now from Fianna Fáil or from members of the Government of the negative results of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement — the negative results that we in this party predicted, we who were so ridiculed and described as being unpatriotic at a time when those who were unpatriotic were the four or five Ministers who went to London and returned with this agreement. The agreement has done nothing but harm to industry and has done no good to Irish agriculture. The facts speak for themselves in so far as the results of the agreement are concerned. Perhaps the Minister would explain, in relation to the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement, why having had a trading surplus of £9 million with the United Kingdom, this surplus was converted four or five years after the signing of the agreement to a deficit of £65 million. The boasts of the various Ministers during the time that that agreement was being debated as to the benefits that would accrue to Irish agriculture and Irish industry still ring in our ears. We would like to know where was the good bargain that we heard about in January of 1966.

Another factor that must be considered is the high price of money. I am sure the Minister is concerned with this matter also. Interest rates abroad have decreased and the Irish rates are attracting much foreign money. This is very nice indeed for the bankers but it has its effects on the Irish people as a whole. It has its effects, in particular, on young couples and all those in need of houses who, when they wish to borrow money find that they must match these high interest rates.

When one thinks about the balance of payments one must relate it also to the difficulties in relation to invisible exports. Despite the assurances of the Minister for Transport and Power and without going into any statistics whatever, we know from talking to hoteliers and guesthouse owners that tourism is facing a bad year. This is not to be blamed entirely on what is described as the northern situation. One has only to look at the booking list of any hotel or guesthouse to realise that this will not be a good year for tourism. Fianna Fáil Ministers for Finance in the last two years must take responsibility for that. I shall not go into it except merely to mention what Deputy Enright has said: that we are pricing ourselves out of the tourist market because of the dramatic increase in the prices of food, drink and tobacco. Some may dismiss drink and cigarettes as luxuries but these attracted tourists, particularly British workers, who now find it more attractive to go elsewhere because the attractions which were here four or five years ago are not there any more due to the Government's financial policy.

Consideration must be given to the bank strike and its effects. Apart from the effects of the strike in terms of self-credit expansion by people who wrote cheques and incurred bad debts, the most abiding result of that long-drawn-out dispute — I should have described it as a lockout — in the banks is a breakdown of confidence in commercial circles. We have now reached a stage where creditworthiness is suspect and checks and double checks are needed before payment can be made by cheque. We must also consider — the Minister for Finance must know this better than any other member of the Government — the power of the banking baron. The banking system is crucial in our economy and we have no control whatever over it. We may go through the motions of controlling prices of food, household goods or motor cars but when it comes to the price of money and the operation of the banks the Government have practically no control.

There is need for a change: there is urgent need for public control, beyond the quiet talk the Minister for Finance may have with the chairman of the Central Bank or the chairman of the Central Bank may have with the directors of the commercial banks. Again, related to the Labour Party policy of industrial democracy, the initial step should be the appointment by the State, if you like, in present circumstances by the Fianna Fáil Government, of directors to these banks because, as I said, creation and distribution of money must be brought in line with policies of the central Government. There is no point in the Government having a certain financial policy and the banking barons having an entirely different one. We must also remember that it is the people's money, not their own, that they are dealing with. That is why we say the State should appoint directors to look after the interests of the people because the public interest must override any private interest.

I do not know if the Minister is concerned about it or not — everybody seems to be happy no matter what the state of our external assets or reserves may be — but we are one of the few countries in the world that can export money unhindered. This must also be borne in mind. Why should somebody who owns some industry or factory be allowed to invest a big percentage of profits earned by Irish workers in some other country? I do not think other European countries tolerate the sort of situation where there is absolute freedom to export money or invest it in Britain, money earned here and money which should be reinvested here for the expansion of industry or the establishment of new industry.

There is control of the banks' assets but, as far as other moneys are concerned, there is virtually no control. It is a cliche that our economic future depends on our ability to develop our industrial arm. There is no point in trying to think in terms of more employment in agriculture — it does not appear to be "on"— but we should think in terms not alone of total production and the creation of jobs but also about balanced regional growth. I concede that, although the signs for the past two years have been bad, there was growth in 1966, 1967 and 1968 which was fairly promising and could provide the basis for future achievements if the proper steps were taken by the Government, but in view of the events of the last few months the whole industrial programme of the Government must be questioned. I have mentioned the redundancies and Deputies and the public know of factory closures which have added to the overall gloom. The Minister may describe me as a prophet of gloom but I am being realistic and practical and I am making suggestions which probably are not in accord with Fianna Fáil policy but they should be considered. We cannot go on as we have been going over the past 20, 30 or 40 years having absolute dependence on private enterprise.

The problems of freer trade not alone with Britain, but with Europe as anticipated by the Fianna Fáil Government, would certainly create new problems and industry must be dramatically changed and reorganised to cope with them. This transformation is needed. Industrial development must be based on real, economic planning and with positive and rational intervention by the State. I repeat positive and rational intervention by the State. We can no longer depend on either Irish people or foreigners who come here to provide full employment. There must be emphasis on regional balance.

Therefore, we are advocating the establishment by the State of industry and State participation in the development of existing industry, joint ventures in new industry with private enterprise, if you like. We agree with the policy of direct State aid. Finally, we advocate the development of the necessary infrastructure so that industry can be accommodated in various areas. Towards that end I believe the Minister for Industry and Commerce or his Department, or the Minister for Finance, cannot, within the limitations imposed upon them, do this sort of job. Therefore, we advocate the establishment of a Ministry or Department of Economic Development charged with devising and implementing a national development plan.

Our planning now is somewhat haphazard. The Department of Economic Development should be the premier Department of State and should control sections in other Departments associated with economic development.

This Department should decide the type of industries to be established and their location.

The Government should now make decisions on Buchanan proposals and tell us, for example, what is to happen to the towns not now scheduled for the establishment of industries. As far as I know, only nine specific centres are mentioned. A recent report of the Industrial Development Authority shows that the result of the ad hoc policies of the past have not been eminently successful. There are many areas of the country that are neglected. There is concentration on four main centres: Dublin, Waterford-Cork, Limerick-Shannon and Galway. I want to see these four areas developed but I do not want to see our other towns entirely neglected. It would be wrong from a social point of view to try to jam the workers into ten or 11 areas. That is why I say that I believe there should be regional balance in the establishment of industry whether it is done by the IDA or, as we propose, by a special Department of Economic Development.

It appears that places like — these are supposed to be prosperous places but are not in fact — the midlands, the north-west and the south-east have been neglected in recent years. There appears to be a change of policy, a change of heart in the IDA in recent times and they have shown some initiative in the selection of industry and to some extent in the selection of areas where these industries should be placed. We advocated that very many years ago because who is in a better position to decide what we should manufacture and where the industry should be placed? Tribute should be paid to the local development committees in towns and villages which have been hitting their heads against a wall trying to get people from Britain, Germany or France to establish industries in their particular areas. They have raised money locally to go abroad but they have come back empty handed. It is the function of the State, which is, I believe, equipped to do this job, to do this if we are to attempt to achieve full employment.

Somebody described us as a "developing" country. I do not believe this is so. It may not be correct to say that we are under-developed but we have blamed our economic failure on lack of industrial tradition, lack of raw materials, the smallness of the home market and we have used this as an excuse to do nothing. This has not prevented growth in other European countries of a similar size with the same deficiencies and in the same situation as we are, being close to a country like Britain. Countries like Norway and Denmark lack many of the things we lack but they are developing countries. Our failure to develop industry goes beyond these reasons. I believe Irish capital has been in the hands of conservative middle class people many of whom prefer to invest their money in Britain or some other country than at home. The result is that our external reserves and our external assets are abnormally high and mostly in Britain. I have still to get an answer from some Minister for Finance as to the sum at which our external assets and reserves would be safe. Are they related to our imports, exports, our balance of trade, and balance of payments or what? It appears to me there is a great deal of Irish money working in other countries.

It has been suggested there was a shortage of ideas rather than a shortage of capital. Possibly the position is that those with capital have no ideas and those with ideas have no capital. Our past reliance on private enterprise has been replaced to some extent by a system of incentives and subsidies calculated to attract foreign enterprise and also to spur native industrialists to expand and invest at home but we have not been very successful. It is costing us a great deal to give foreign industrialists money to establish industries here. But there have not been any dramatic results.

In the last ten years on average we have added only 2,000 jobs per year. Membership of the EEC is not going to improve that sort of situation. There is disillusionment about membership of the EEC amongst farmers and fishermen and nothing that the Minister for Foreign Affairs or any other Minister has said has dispelled that disillusionment.

There is indeed a change in industry and it is a change which nobody welcomes because there is growing control by foreign firms of great segments of our economy. Do we really want a takeover of Irish industry and of course, if we get into the EEC, a takeover of Irish land? Of 220 new industrial projects between 1958 and 1967 only 48 were sponsored solely by Irish firms; a further 35 were promoted jointly by Irish and foreign firms. In the period between 1958 and 1967 these foreign firms brought in £17 million in shares and in capital and they got £12 million in grants. The results as far as employment is concerned were not dramatic.

May I again refer to the NIEC Report on Full Employment which drew our attention to the cause of our failure? The report stated it was lack of enterprise rather than lack of resources or lack of industrial tradition or an adequate home market. If it was lack of enterprise by industrialists who have money, then initiative will have to be taken and enterprise employed by those who rule the country — the Fianna Fáil Government.

We have successfully resisted many invasions in the past and we say we won partial political freedom 50 years ago but we have failed to win our economic freedom. We are now standing idly by and doing little or nothing to stem the takeover not alone in industry but in the retail and distribution trades as well. Is there any concern in the Government party about what has happened during the last three months when three of the biggest retail stores in Dublin were taken over by foreigners? I do not think that is a healthy sign. I do not think it is a healthy development. Will the EEC facilitate that takeover? I do not know whether it is too late or not but we must commence the reconquest of Ireland so that in future the resources of the country will be owned by Irish people and used for their benefit so that we will not alone retain our economic independence and identity but also retain our people here in this country and working.

The debate which is now concluding has ranged over many topics and has been participated in very generally by Deputies. Having said that I say what is usually said at the conclusion of the Budget debate because I do not think this debate was in any way different and was certainly no tribute to the Minister's Budget.

The Budget this year or any other year is intended to contain the Government's financial and economic policy certainly in relation to the immediate period ahead. In drawing up the Budget the Minister and the Government have to face the problems thrown up by our current economic situation. I do not think anyone will disagree with me when I say that these problems certainly exist. They exist and they are the result of imprudent action and of foolish decisions taken by the present Government over recent years. Inflation clearly recognised and cynically ignored in 1969 was made more virulent and more dangerous last year by the doubling of the turnover tax, an action which had all the hallmarks of malice.

We have this dangerous, this threatening inflation, described in the Central Bank report as the worst in Europe. One would expect that that inflationary situation would have been present — I am sure it was — in the mind of the Minister and of the Government when this Budget was being prepared. But, inflation apart, there are other problems which arise from our present economic situation. Our economy at the moment, even if we had no inflation, is beginning to disclose certain structural weaknesses, weaknesses which are being brought forward and made clear by the arrival of freer trade with Britain under the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement. We have got to face the fact that very many firms and industries in our industrial arm have grown up under protection and have been geared entirely for the home market. These now, with the advent of free trade with Britain, find themselves in an increasingly difficult position. Is the position of these industries, I wonder, fully apprehended or fully understood by the Government? It was absolutely necessary that a very definite period of re-adjustment should have been allowed so that our industrial strength could gradually concentrate on sectors and lines with a potential of real advantage to our country. At the moment that is not the position. Many industries, apart from problems created by inflation, are face to face with an economic crunch they cannot avoid. That is one facet of our present economic situation.

Another facet is one about which, I suppose, nothing can be done. We have to live with the fact that there is a continuing drift from the land. More and more people are moving away from the land as agriculture adapts more and more to the requirements of a more technically advanced and competitive era. This is another facet of our present economic situation which should have commanded the attention and the concern of the Government. Let us examine now what these underlying factors mean. They mean that we have the largest percentage of unemployment in Europe. We have a huge unemployment problem. More than 6 per cent of our people are without employment. We have a cost of living which has increased by 10 per cent up to mid-February of this year, a record increase in any 12 months. That increase of 10 per cent does not, of course, take account of the increases that everybody has experienced from 15th February on as a result of decimilisation.

With huge unemployment, a record cost of living, we have a chronic balance of payments deficit, which has been running over £60 million a year for the last two years and will probably continue into the third year. We have a growth rate which, in the financial year just ended, was less than 2 per cent, one of the all-time lowest in Europe. Added to that, as anybody engaged in business and industrial development will acknowledge, we have had a general falling off in the level of investment here at home. These are disturbing features — high unemployment, a galloping inflationary situation demonstrated by a 10 per cent rise in the cost of living, a chronic balance of payments deficit, a growth rate of less than 2 per cent and a general falling off in home investment. This means that our economy was and is running well below capacity. It means that there is a serious problem to be faced. This depressing situation has been complicated by a huge increase in foreign borrowings by the Government, an increase which seems to have been based on mere whim or fancy and not on long term considerations, certainly not on considerations of what the economy can afford.

These foreign borrowings have been referred to by the Central Bank at page 10 of its report:

While it is recognised that a high level of public capital expenditure is necessary as a stimulus and support for economic development, it does appear that foreign borrowing both by the Government and State bodies has been proceeding at too high a rate in recent years and needs to be moderated not only because it is associated with the financing of an excessive level of total national expenditure but also because of its real cost to the economy.

The report goes on to point out:

Foreign currency indebtedness on foot of borrowings by the Government and State bodies rose by about £100 million from March, 1966, and March, 1971.

Do Deputies, I wonder, realise that we have gone into the red in borrowing abroad to the extent of £100 million in a period of five years? I well remember when I was first elected as a Deputy in 1948 and when the Minister for Finance in the first inter-Party Government had the foresight and the genius to introduce what was then called the "Two-tier Budget", the capital Budget and the ordinary household Budget, he did so in an effort to get our people to invest their money in Ireland. For that purpose he floated a national loan. It was a successful national loan. How was it greeted by the Opposition at the time? They devised posters, which went up on the David Allen hoardings, showing the pawnbrokers three brass balls, carrying the suggestion that, because the inter-Party Government were asking the Irish people to invest their savings in the future of Ireland, they were selling the country into hock. It was a most shameful, unnational piece of propaganda and it should still bring a blush of shame to the cheeks of every member of the Fianna Fáil Party.

Now what are we doing? Without plan or proposal or consideration we have been hawking our credit all over the world, including in foreign borrowing to an extent that has caused perturbation and concern to the Central Bank: £100 million in five years without any consideration of the cost to our people. Despite that stricture, the Government, in the next few months, propose to borrow another £18 million. These are some of the factors in the present economic situation: our economy running below capacity, high unemployment, galloping inflation, a chronic deficit in our balance of payments, and we are borrowing month after month from abroad.

In that situation, what kind of Budget ought this to have been? Surely it should have been a Budget that faced up to the problems inherent in our present situation, the kind of things that are causing dismay and anxiety to the people? In page 12 of the Quarterly Bulletin, spring 1971, of the Central Bank, it was suggested:

Private investment would be encouraged by the creation of a less inflationary environment, in which the rate of increase in costs and prices was being reduced and demand promised to rise in a steady and sustained fashion. This consideration reinforces the case for avoiding any significant increase in indirect taxation in 1971.

That, in very careful wording, is a complete condemnation of the Budget of 1971. It goes on to say:

The increase in corporate taxation in the autumn of 1970 is unfavourable to private investment not just because of the disincentive effects of the reduction in after-tax profits but more importantly because it reduces the cash flow out of which companies finance investment. The firms hardest hit by this are those whose position is most vulnerable — the import-competing firms. If private investment is to be maintained it will need to rely more than normally on outside resources and this requires that a reasonable proportion of new credit should be available to the private sector.

That was some of the advice available to the Minister and the Government prior to the preparation of this Budget. Apart from that, clearly what is required is some stimulus towards an expansion in industrial production aimed eventually at an increase in exports and an imaginative, bold policy to boost savings.

That should have been the message of this Budget. That is what the Budget should have aimed to achieve, but has it? An expansion in industrial production? Last October in a very ill-considered way the Minister for Finance introduced what he called his package deal. By the time he was finished retreating from that package deal it was almost empty. The only thing remaining in it was a proposal to increase company taxation. In the Budget of last October the Government increased taxation on company profits to the unprecedented level of 58 per cent. At that time British taxation on company profits was 42 per cent. A few months later the British reduced their rate to 40 per cent. Not only was this 58 per cent put on company taxation in October but it was made retrospective, so that many companies had to pay this year in taxation 74 per cent of their profits.

That decision last October brought about an immediate increase in unemployment. It caused many companies to wonder seriously about their ability to continue in existence. One step the Minister could have taken in this Budget was to remove the company taxation imposed last October. Why did he not do it? Because to do it would be to admit that he made a mistake last October. The silly suggestion was made by the Taoiseach in Cork the other night that it would cost £6 million, 1 per cent of the revenue the State is taking here. If the State could not deal with 1 per cent of the total revenue expected, then the Ministers in charge of the State are utterly incompetent.

What is the defence? The Minister says: "All companies have export tax relief." Of course they have, because of the wisdom of the Minister for Finance in the second inter-Party Government, the late Deputy Gerard Sweetman, and of course they have tax relief in relation to exports. However, that is like telling a particular herd of cattle in one field where there is no grass: "You keep on living, because there is plenty of grass a couple of miles away and another herd of cattle are doing fine." What has export tax relief to do with 72 per cent of industrial production? Seventy-two per cent of our industrial production is geared for the home market; only 28 per cent is related to exports, and the export tax relief in no way helps the vast majority of companies concerned with the home market. The Minister, defending the retention of this tax said in his Budget speech:

Concern has been expressed in many quarters at the present burden of taxation on company profits. But when our present combined income tax and corporation profits tax rates of 58 per cent are compared with the rates prevailing in other countries, it is often overlooked that under our system the shareholder is not taxed again to income tax on the dividends he receives out of the company profits. The result is that, effectively, company tax is paid, in many cases, at a rate much lower than 58 per cent. In the United Kingdom, for example, in addition to the tax paid by the company on its profits, the individual shareholder must pay tax on his dividends out of those profits. But in this country, if the company distributes 40 per cent of its pre-tax profits to its shareholders, the rate effectively borne by the Irish company on its profits is not 58 per cent but 44 per cent.

That, I think, must rank as one of the silliest statements ever made by a Minister for Finance anywhere at any time: if a company distributes 40 per cent of its pre-tax profits to its shareholders the rate effectively will be 44 per cent. I am sure it will, if you find such a company doing such a thing. But let us examine the position.

In Britain at the moment on profits of £100,000, corporation tax at 40 per cent leaves profits after tax of £60,000. A 40 per cent distribution is £24,000 and it leaves a figure retained of £36,000. As the Minister points out, in Britain tax has to be paid on the dividends. Tax on £24,000 at 7s 9d or 38¼ per cent is £9,300-odd, so the total tax paid on a company distributing profits in England is 49 per cent. Here in Ireland on £100,000, corporation tax and income tax together total £58,000, leaving profits after tax of £42,000. A 40 per cent dividend is £16,800, leaving £25,200 retained, and the total tax 58 per cent. Is the Minister trying to tell the people concerned in industry, concerned trying to keep a small struggling business going, that they are better off, that they should be very glad that they are paying only 58 per cent because their British competitors are paying 49 per cent?

Of course, that is a company distributing profits. What is the position if they do not distribute? In England, if there is no distribution of profits, the total taxation is 40 per cent. They can retain their profits for expansion. They can use them to advertise their products on the Irish market and on Irish television. They can use them to buy up space in the Irish news media every day, and this is retaining profits not subject to tax. By using their profits for that purpose they can wipe out any Irish company. The Minister says not to worry, that it is not so. Irish industry believes it is so and the people who are becoming redundant, as Deputy Corish pointed out, believe it is so. If the Minister walks down Grafton Street and looks to the right or left he will see stores, shops and businesses being taken over by British firms. Brown Thomas was taken over for this very reason only five months ago. They believe it to be so.

I have no doubt that this was a foolish decision taken by a Government that had not put sufficient preparation into the Budget of last October. It was wrong, it was pointed out to be wrong. The trouble is that the Minister for Finance and his colleagues are not big enough to admit their mistake and alter the situation now. Our economic situation requires an expansion of industrial production. With this serious taxation burden we are proceeding to strangle Irish industry at a time when it should be growing strong and when it should be being geared for the Common Market. I regret to say that I regard it as a very depressing situation indeed.

The Minister no doubt will talk about his measure for free depreciation. That is no good at all this year. It does not even apply until next year. Indeed, with the manner in which these taxes were imposed, it is a pity that the little solace in relation to depreciation was not made retrospective. I foretell that as long as this taxation remains we will not be able to pull out of the economic depression in which we are. As long as this taxation remains we are in danger of allowing much of our industrial arm to be taken over, to be bought over. This is bad policy, bad financing. It is the result of bad Government. I fear very much for the immediate future. I do not know what the solution is. With closed minds, minds that are so closed that no effort at argument or persuasion will change the situation, I do not know what the solution is. Maybe the solution lies somewhere around a table in this House with what is known as the "Letterkenny Parliament". Maybe, if some of the dissenters became protesters instead, a solution might be found. I guarantee that as soon as this Government ends, if it does in the near future, this taxation will be abolished and some more competent Government will find £6 million from some other source and certainly will not continue a situation in which £6 million is brought into the revenue out of the jobs and the way of life of ordinary working people in this country.

There is one other thing I want to mention in relation to the Budget and I want to make this as solemn a protest as I can. Subsequent to the Budget Statement the Minister asked Deputies to accept Resolution No. 7. Resolution No. 7 deals with death duties and by Resolution No. 7 the Minister proposed that the transfer of property in consideration of marriage, which for long has been regarded as valuable consideration in this country, would no longer be exempt from death duties, but rather that so much of the property as was in excess of £5,000, if the transfer came from the father or other ancestor to one of the parties to the marriage, and so much of the property as was in excess of £1,000, if it came from somebody who was not the father, grandfather or whatever it might be of the party, would no longer be exempt.

I want Deputies to realise what this means. It may cause the gravest possible disturbance in rural Ireland. It has for long been the practice — much to be encouraged may I say—for a father who has property or land to seek to set up his son on a farm by transferring his farm or lands to him on the occasion of his marriage. Up to this, once that was done it was regarded as a transfer for valuable consideration and it did not matter if the father died six months later, 12 months later, three years later or ten years later, the land could not be attached for death duties. Under this proposal that no longer applies. Let us take a 50 acre farm in the midlands, Meath or wherever it may be, which is transferred to a young man who is getting married and then, as was pointed out in a letter to the Irish Times yesterday or the day before, when he just about has the first or second child the father dies. The land may be valued for £25,000 and he is asked to pay death duties on £20,000.

What is this in aid of? The whole problem of death duties is something that should be engaging the attention of the Minister in order to work towards their reduction and eventual abolition. Instead of that we have this approach of taxing the young people of Ireland. Do the Minister's fellow Deputies in Fianna Fáil realise what they are doing — not taxing the rich, not putting a tax where it can easily be borne but taxing the young married people of the country?

Somebody in the Minister's party said this is a Budget with a social conscience. Where is the social conscience in imposing this type of taxation? The extraordinary thing in the Minister's speech, and I have read it again from beginning to end, is that he did not make one reference, good, bad or indifferent, to this proposal. It was not mentioned in the Budget Statement at all but Deputies were asked to vote on that resolution without any indication as to the reason for it, the basis for it, the implications of it.

I do not think that is the way this House should be treated. It seems to me that once more we have a Minister for Finance who is handed things by the Revenue Commissioners or from somewhere else and who tables resolutions seeking Dáil approval without being in a position himself fully to recommend them to the House.

I could refer to other aspects of the Budget but they have been fully dealt with by Deputies in the course of the debate. However, I was interested to see the other day, speaking on the occasion I mentioned earlier, that the Taoiseach deplored criticism of the Budget. Apparently it has now become a solecism not to engage in any criticism of what this Government propose or of what they seek to do. He said that Deputies Cosgrave and Corish, the Leaders of the two parties in Opposition, were gravely at fault in advocating increased expenditure and in criticising particular taxation and not indicating substitute taxation for it.

That is a very old device by means of which a government with a conscience—I agree this Government have a conscience. Why would they not? — seek to avoid criticism of their Budget. Of course we will criticise and have criticised particular items of taxation in this Budget. Of course we have demanded and will continue to demand increases in other spheres and in other areas. That is because we challenge the philosophy behind the Budget and because we put in question the means whereby this Budget was put together.

I do not believe there is a social conscience in this Budget. I believe it was intended to be, as Deputy Corish properly pointed out, merely an each-way bet in the event of a general election. I do not believe the Budget sought to grapple with the really serious problems facing the country. So we condemn it. It was intended to be no more than stop gap to carry the Government from a political point of view over their present difficulties, and they have difficulties. We know them.

In the speech I mentioned earlier, the Taoiseach went on to talk about Deputy Cosgrave and Deputy Corish "in their preliminary posturing about another coalition". That comes well from the Leader of the Fianna Fáil Party. Do you know that at the moment the corridors of Leinster House are crawling with ex-Ministers. Everywhere you go you bump into them and each of them has a little tail of Deputies around and behind him. They are going along like ships in sail from one corridor to another and we do not know whether they ever reach their destinations because we do not know whether they know where they are going.

It is their Leader who is talking about preliminary posturing for coalition. He is now in charge of a coalition Government. He is in charge of a coalition which has been born out of political expediency. The policies he announces — this Budget is one of them — must necessarily be something which represents the lowest common denominator. It must be something which above all will appeal to the various spikes in Fianna Fáil.

That is what we have at the moment — a coalition of expediency, conceived in intrigue and born of necessity. We have these jibes about coalition and so on. What they really mean is that there is a real fear in the Leader of Fianna Fáil and in all his present Ministers of a general election. I do not know whether it will come. Maybe it will not be for the Taoiseach himself to decide: maybe sooner or later the dissidents, instead of being mice, will become men. If that happens a general election will come.

I will not prophesy the outcome but I say there is a deep, profound desire among all sections of our people for a change of Government, for a breath of fresh air in Leinster House and for new men to tackle the nation's problems. I believe we can present to these problems a new enthusiasm, a new determination, a new philosophy. I believe we can apply the proper remedies to the economic ills now besetting the nation and I hope that in the near future that opportunity will be given.

At the outset I should like to refer Deputies to my Financial Statement of 28th April where I indicated the economic background we were dealing with and where I stated that this year's Budget took cognisance of three main and inter-related problems facing the economy — rising prices, excessive external deficits and a growth rate below our long-term potential. On the prices front, action continues to be taken by the Minister for Industry and Commerce. He is bringing forward legislation to expand the scope of the Prices Act. To press in order to secure a substantially higher rate of growth immediately would merely worsen our inflation problems. Our balance of payments problem will improve only when we have the inflationary situation in hand.

On the monetary policy side one of the difficulties has been the expansion of credit which occurred during the bank closure beyond what would have been desirable in the prevailing circumstances. In view of the overall inflationary situation it will be necessary to continue restraint on credit growth, as indicated by the Central Bank recently, but particularly on consumer credit. The hire-purchase restrictions must be maintained also although they have been rather less effective than had been hoped.

One sphere which was amenable to Government control, and in which action could be taken, was in the rate of growth in our current expenditure. Therefore, this was the main feature of the current year's Budget. A firm effort has been made to cut down the rate of growth in current expenditure to a level close to that which could be supported by revenue buoyancy. While we all agree that it is desirable that much more should be done to improve social welfare, to give added assistance to agriculture, to provide many other new services, further develop the infrastructure of our economy and so on, our economy could not indefinitely sustain giving a rising proportion of our GNP to meet public expenditure. Therefore, priority was given to checking the growth of the Budget.

The level of expenditure was determined this year on the basis of block allocations which, as well as taking account of the relevant economic factors, allow individual Ministers greater scope for determining priorities within their own spheres of responsibility. As I indicated, new techniques are being developed to ensure a more systematic control of expenditure. These include programme budgeting and multi-annual budgeting. However, it will take some time to perfect these new methods and to make them fully operative.

The main thrust of this year's Budget related to the cuts effected on the expenditure side. The work of securing reductions in the Estimates went on over the months preceding the Budget. As compared with expenditure increases ranging from 16 per cent to 18 per cent in the past three years, current and capital outlay for 1971-72 is planned to rise by less than 11 per cent. The Government, conscious of the great effort which is needed if the counter inflationary drive is to be a success, are taking very firm action to make these reductions stick. In the longer term, the Government hope that the systems of multi-annual budgeting and programme budgeting at present being evolved will improve the control of expenditure and lead to closer harmonisation in the public sector between resources and outlay. I am satisfied that these measures will bring Government expenditure into closer alignment with revenue and in that way remove a significant source of potential inflationary pressure in our economy.

Deputy Cosgrave referred to the Capital Budget and suggested that really no effort was made in that regard, just slight amounts were added to the various headings. I should like to draw his attention to the Capital Budget booklet which clearly states in paragraph 18 the policy underlying it. The allocations plans for the previous year, 1970-71, had envisaged a moderation in the growth in the public capital programme. The purpose of that moderation was to counter the inflationary tendencies we were experiencing at that time. In setting the allocations for 1971-72 the Government continued the same policy with the object of easing the inflationary pressures and limiting residual borrowing, including foreign borrowing.

The allocation levels of the public capital programme were set at the highest levels sustainable subject to the considerations I have mentioned. To have set appreciably higher levels would simply have been to give free play to disruptive inflationary pressures and it would necessitate excessive residual borrowing.

The investment in the development project of the public capital programme for 1971-72 totals £179 million for all items except expenditure of the air companies and Irish Shipping Ltd. Those items are excluded because they are largely received from foreign resources and have very little direct effect on domestic resources and demand. This figure of £179 million represents an increase of nearly £11 million over the out-turn of 1970-71. The 1971-72 capital allocations are adequate to ensure continuing economic and social development provided that wages and costs generally do not rise excessively.

The composition of the public capital programme is, I think, of very considerable importance. The programme accounts for about half of national investment. The grants and loans which make up about one-third of the programme have a very considerable influence on investment undertaken by the private sector. As explained in the Capital Budget booklet the increase in the programme in 1971-72 is channelled mainly towards industrial development and housing development. The allocation of £23 million for the Industrial Development Authority is the highest ever and represents an increase of £1/2 million over 1970-71. This increase will help to promote urgent industrialisation and modernisation. It will induce productive investment in the private sector since industrial grants have a considerable multiplier effect on total fixed investment.

In the case of housing and ancillary services the allocation is £43½ million, which is £4 million over the 1970-71 out-turn. Other increased allocations have been made under several other headings such as school and hospital buildings, telephones, Bord Fáilte grants and the Gaeltacht. Gaeltarra Éireann are to get a greater amount and the allocation for Radio Telefís Éireann includes provision for early implementation of the Gaeltacht radio project.

As was mentioned in the Capital Budget booklet, paragraph 10, the best foundation for satisfactory development of the public capital programme lies in the expansion of domestic savings.

I would remind the House that, as I indicated in my Budget Statement, the national instalment saving scheme, introduced in September last, has proved very effective and the new prize bond scheme introduced in March last has got off to a very good start. At the same time Deputies will probably recall that I announced the proposed issue of a new savings certificate with attractive terms and I also announced that the service of the Post Office Savings Bank would be improved by speedier withdrawal facilities. I mention this because it is generally recognised, and, indeed, it was referred to by Deputy O'Higgins a few minutes ago, that savings by our own people are a very important element in our budgeting and indeed are the best basis on which to develop our public capital programme.

I would, however, like to refer on the current side to a theme which occurred in a number of speeches in the debate. It was suggested, in effect, that the figures on the current side had been cooked by way of over-estimating buoyancy and that consequently we could expect an autumn Budget. I want to say to Deputies who made the allegation, giving them the benefit of the doubt, that they got their sums wrong. They may have got other things wrong too, but I will leave it at that.

You compared the end of last year with the beginning of this year.

(Interruptions.)

I did not interrupt Deputy Corish.

No, but you interrupted me.

Touché.

The Deputy's chance to interrupt me will come later on. I am going to have a go at his party, so wait for it. I should like to deal with this matter of the allegations in regard to buoyancy of revenue. First of all, we ought to understand clearly that buoyancy is a measure of the growth from year to year of total revenue at unchanged tax rates. This is not simply the difference between the out-turn figures for a particular year and the pre-Budget estimates for the following year. These figures must be adjusted to take account of the tax changes made in the previous years whose impact may spill over into subsequent years. This carry-over effect is particularly significant in the current year of 1971-72.

The pre-Budget estimate of total revenue for 1971-72 at £541.8 million shows an increase of £60.3 million over the out-turn figures for 1970-71. The tax changes in April and October, 1970, have however an unusually high carry-over effect, as I have indicated. They amount in all to £13.2 million. The additional full year yield from the changes made in the Budget of 28th October, 1970, amounts to £6 million and the balance is attributable to the increased post office charges and the full year effect of the turnover tax increase. The level of buoyancy implicit in the 1971-72 estimates of total revenue is therefore £47.1 million or 9½ per cent. This estimated level of buoyancy is lower than that experienced in each of the last three years. In those circumstances I suggest that those who said we had deliberately over-estimated buoyancy just got their sums wrong and did not realise that the actual allowance is lower than, as I say, any experienced in the last three years.

In my Budget Statement I referred a number of times to the national pay agreement and I stressed the importance of giving the hard won terms of that agreement a fair chance of succeeding. Indeed, my budgetary strategy was designed to avoid any sort of action by the Government which might endanger the agreement and to encourage the other parties concerned to maintain their efforts to ensure that the agreement was properly observed. This is vital if we want to avoid returning with renewed impetus to the inflationary path which last year made Government intervention on the pay front necessary.

I would remind Deputies that, as has been stated in the past, the carryover effect of wage increases granted last year goes right on through most of this year and that the full effects of the national wage agreement in regard to moderation in price increases will not be felt until 1972. Very few references were made during the debate to the national pay agreement. I feel sure this was not because of any lack of concern but because Deputies were naturally reluctant to say anything at this stage which might exacerbate the present situation For my part I will simply repeat that the increases provided for in the national wage agreement are already at a level which the economy can bear only with difficulty. Attempts to build on these increases, or to extend those clauses in the agreement designed to cover very exceptional cases, will put the whole agreement in jeopardy. Deputy Corish this evening criticised what he said was a very brief treatment by me in my Budget Speech of a review of 1970. In fact, he said he counted the words and I think he said they came to 175. I will not dispute this with him; may be I could but I will not, but I will draw his attention——

All right, 176.

There were other paragraphs which the Deputy may have counted out. However, may I draw his attention to the fact that the second sentence of the Budget Statement was as follows:

The summary of the economic background is, as usual, brief because the ground has been covered in detail in recent publications.

Just to put it on the record for the Deputy. During the debate there were a number of references to company taxation. Deputy O'Higgins referred to it this evening and Deputy Cosgrave also referred to it. He said that the increased company taxation in the Supplementary Budget had harmed Irish companies and raised their relative tax burdens over those prevailing in Britain. Looking at the situation broadly, it is true that much of Irish industry is going through a period of stress and I suggest that the Government are by their policies in the fiscal and monetary fields and in the field of industrial relations helping in large measure to remove uncertainty in relation to future prospects and to create the conditions which are essential for increased investment and higher output. By ensuring that adequate credit is provided for productive purposes and by the enhanced tax incentives announced in the Budget the Government are directly assisting the expansion of the growth sector of our economy upon which we all depend so much for higher output and employment.

The recent reduction in bank lending rates for business purposes will help to reinforce the incentive effects of these measures. By allowing free depreciation in respect of capital expenditure incurred in a particular year on plant and machinery used in any part of the country the Government are in that year making a contribution equivalent to up to 58 per cent towards the cost of such investment, and the topped up scheme of free depreciation plus 20 per cent investment allowance for capital expenditure on new plant and machinery used in the designated areas is one of the most generous incentives available anywhere for investment. The potential benefit of these reliefs to industry are substantial as can be seen from the estimates of revenue foregone, namely, £3 million next year and £6 million in the following year.

I would remind the House that the estimated yield from the increased tax on companies is £6 million in a full year. When one examines this situation it will be seen that over the next couple of years with these allowances to industry amounting to £9 million over two years what we are doing substantially is giving back the taxation we are taking but directing profits into productive investment. We are giving the inducement to productive investment, and not just across the board to every kind of company, which is what is being advocated. We need not apologise to anybody for that kind of approach, especially in our present circumstances where the great emphasis in industry must be on investment.

What about the exports?

What can we do but give them 100 per cent tax relief? How much more can one do? The comparisons which are made with our competitors in Britain overlook the fact that the competitors in Britain do not have tax relief on exports.

I do not need to go back over all the details of the impact of tax here and in Britain, taking the companies and the shareholders together. Deputy O'Higgins dealt with this point in his speech. Nothing can be achieved by going over the same ground again. We are just contradicting each other. It is a question of getting on with the job rather than arguing about it.

Deputy O'Connell appears from his contribution to be under the misapprehension that speculators in land get off scot-free of income tax and that in order to catch them it would be necessary to introduce a capital gains tax. This is not so in respect of capital gains arising from a business of dealing in or developing land. Such gains are chargeable in the ordinary way to income tax and in some cases to surtax in the case of an individual, and in the case of a company to income tax and corporation profit tax. Some degree of evasion and avoidance of most forms of taxation is inevitable, but as Deputy Dowling has pointed out it is our duty to ensure that the incidence of evasion and avoidance is kept to the lowest possible level. Deputies will be aware of the many provisions included in the Finance Act, 1970, to combat evasion and avoidance under several heads. Evasion of income tax by subcontractors or "lumpers" and the avoidance of tax by means of post-cessational receipts of a trade or profession, the avoidance of stamp duties by the placing of an inordinate value on assets such as goodwill attaching to a business premises when they are being sold and, finally, avoidance of estate duty through the medium of family companies and Government securities are all being looked at. The estate duty code is a particularly happy hunting-ground for the tax avoider. As I indicated in my Budget speech I intend to strengthen still further the estate duty code in the Finance Bill and to put a stop to new avoidance devices which have come to notice in the income tax field.

Deputy O'Higgins referred to the resolution dealing with the avoidance of death duties on marriage settlements. It would be more appropriate if we discussed that point in detail on the Finance Bill. I indicated in the discussion on the resolution that that is not being brought in on a whim but that there was at least one actual case known in which there had been large-scale deprivation of the Exchequer, or the avoidance of a substantial sum of estate duty by this very means. I do not want to pre-judge that issue. I will certainly listen to anything said by Deputies opposite when we are discussing it.

Deputy Cosgrave said that the Estimates were presented at a later date than ever before. He mentioned a month later. Under the procedure in operation up to 1965 for the consideration of financial business by the Dáil the debate on the Vote on Account took place in March, and the Estimate volume was presented at the same time. The Central Fund (Permanent Provisions) Act, 1965 removed the need for introducing a Vote on Account. This, in turn, enabled the presentation of the Estimates volume to be more closely linked with that of other publications issued prior to the Budget. The Estimates volume is now normally presented about a week before the Budget. In each of the last five years it was presented in April. In 1969 it was presented on the 22nd April. This year it was presented on the 20th April, eight days before the Budget.

Deputy Tully asked would I not establish parity once and for all for public service pensioners. I should like to be able to do that. I should like to put this matter into perspective. If we take 1962 as a starting point, pension increases have been granted every year since then, with the exception of 1966. The present annual cost of these increases is of the order of £6 million, including this year's cost.

This year's increase brings pensioners up to the June, 1969 pay level. That is, up to the second phase of the 11th round. To bring pensioners up to parity as at present would entail granting them the benefit of the first phase of the 12th round, effective generally from the 1st of April, 1970, and also the second phase of that round which is effective from the 1st of January, 1971. While pensioners are only one full round behind the serving staff, the difficulty is that the cost of bridging the gap this year would be quite prohibitive. The full year's cost of this year's improvements is £1.35 million. A further £2.8 million would be required to bring pensioners up to January, 1971 rates, making a total of almost £4.2 million.

I know that Deputy O'Higgins spoke of the yield from the additional tax on companies amounting to £6 million and indicated that it was a mere bagatelle and that it was no problem for anyone to take away this taxation and still find £6 million. The imposition of this tax was an enormous thing on the companies, but the Deputy thought that the State should have no problem in finding such a sum. If Deputy O'Higgins were Minister for Finance, perhaps, he would have no difficulties at all in finding £6 million.

Would the Minister not consider that he owes it to some of his predecessors who promised parity to introduce it now? They got away with, not paying it over the years. Is it fair to tell pensioners that they will have to wait a little longer?

That is not what was said. The principle of parity was accepted, but it was said that parity could not be reached immediately but over a number of years.

When Deputy Dr. Ryan was Minister, he said that he would introduce parity within a reasonably short time. He is dead and I suppose that is the end of it.

The late Deputy Dr. Ryan indicated clearly that parity could not be reached quickly. In the present financial circumstances and in the context of this year's Budget, provision of the order of £4.2 million for parity of pensions could only have been made at the expense of other deserving sectors of the community or by increased taxation. Both of these courses had to be ruled out and many other desirable objectives had to be deferred also.

At one stage when Deputy Tully was speaking I intervened and said I thought this was a fairly tough Budget. I should like it to have been a lot better but one must face up to the realities of the situation which I outlined in considerable detail when introducing the Budget.

I like the way the Minister avoided referring to the increases in prices and the extra money they will bring in and also the extra money he will get by way of income tax as a result of increased wages.

I have already dealt with the question of buoyancy, if the Deputy is talking about the increased revenue the State can expect. I spelled out what buoyancy is and how much was estimated this year.

We know what buoyancy is and what it costs.

Many other desirable objectives besides full parity for State pensioners had to be ruled out this year. I would assure State pensioners that, as announced in the 1969 Budget, the Government accept the principle of parity and will proceed towards it at the earliest appropriate moment.

Live horse and you will get grass.

I have pointed out that these pensioners have got an increase every year since 1962, except for the year 1966——

Does the Minister think they are doing very well?

If the pensioners care to look back to find out what was done for them by the parties opposite they will see a different picture.

We are talking about pensioners who retired in the last ten or 15 years. The others are long dead and the present pensioners will be dead before the Government get around to doing anything for them.

We are doing a lot better for them than the Deputy's party.

For 15 years, even during the war, the Government gave nothing to any pensioners. The Minister should not start bragging, because the record of the Government is bad.

Does the Deputy wish to compare his party's record with ours?

I can tell the Minister that it stands up very well.

The Minister should be allowed to continue.

In the course of his contribution, Deputy Begley suggested that hotels and guesthouses should be exempt from turnover tax. Hotels and guesthouses are liable to turnover tax on their total receipts from the provision of accommodation, food, drink, cigarettes and entertainment. They pay their tax monthly in one sum and there are no means available of distinguishing their receipts from the supply of accommodation and food from other receipts. The total receipts from turnover tax for hotels, guesthouses and catering establishments for the current year should be at least £2.6 million. I hope it is clear that it would be out of the question to forgo this revenue at the present time. Moreover, to allow this concession as suggested by Deputy Begley would open the way for further costly reliefs from turnover tax. Quite clearly, it would create pressure for relief for boat and caravan hire and there would be renewed calls for relief from duty on petrol used by tourists. From the revenue point of view this is not a proposition that appeals to me.

From time to time there have been representations for exemption from turnover tax of receipts from the tourist trade. It would be quite impracticable for an hotel to distinguish at the point of sale between services provided for tourists and for other visitors. For example, if an hotel were to take in visitors on a package tour paid for by a travel agent in Ireland, how could the hotel distinguish between payments in respect of domestic residents on the tour and foreign tourists? Revenue control of exemption for tourists would be impossible and abuse would be widespread.

Deputy Begley also referred to the charge for turnover tax as well as a service charge being added to the price of a meal in an hotel. I should like to make it clear that there is no obligation on any trader or hotel proprietor to show separately the turnover tax in his charge. It can be built into the price quoted and, in fact, this is done by hotels in respect of their sales of drink and cigarettes.

There have been a number of references to foreign borrowing. I propose to give the House some factual details about this but would like to point out that some of the comments I have heard have been misconceived. We must understand that, even while restraining the growth of capital expenditure, with the resources available to us it is necessary for us to do some foreign borrowing this year; it will be necessary next year, and I should think probably the following year. We want to reduce the borrowing but to cut it out altogether would mean a drastic cutback in some items of our public capital programme. The growth in our public capital programme has gone ahead of the growth in our resources. Therefore, unless we cut back in such a drastic way as to cause great hardship, or unless we are to take up all the additional credit available within the community leaving none for the private sector, foreign borrowing is necessary at our current rate of expenditure.

We have cut back on the growth and have tried to limit our borrowing, in particular foreign borrowing, but we must understand that some borrowing will be necessary in the coming years. After taking account of the amounts likely to be available from normal domestic sources, last year's Financial Statement estimated residual borrowings for the public capital programme at £75 million. It was estimated that this amount would be found from the banks and other sources, including borrowing abroad. Towards this amount £6 million had already been raised abroad by way of a dollar loan on the international bond market and it was indicated that part of the remainder might be obtained from the World Bank if discussions then in progress were completed successfully. In the event further loans totalling £21 million were raised abroad for the Exchequer during the year, of which £10 million will be used for this year's capital programme.

During the year negotiations were completed for a loan of 20 million dollars to the ESB from the World Bank — this being the second loan to the ESB from that source. On 3rd March last I informed the Dáil of the loan of 20 million dollars and since then agreement has been reached in principle for a loan of 10 million dollars to the Industrial Credit Company from the World Bank.

In so far as we have to borrow from abroad, and in so far as borrowing from the World Bank is satisfactory from our point of view, we can regard the situation as not being unsatisfactory. As I indicated in this year's Financial Statement we expect to raise £25 million abroad in all for the 1971-72 capital programme. The amount of £25 million includes the sum of £10 million already raised, as I mentioned. Foreign buying, I repeat, must be of a relatively modest nature particularly in our present circumstances.

Deputy Donegan suggested that the £1.4 million carcase beef subsidy does not benefit Irish farmers because, he said, it is in effect a substitute for profits that could be made on exports. This provision of £1.4 million is the net sum needed to enable meat factories to increase the price they pay for fat cattle arising out of the increases in the British guarantee price. The effect is two fold. Firstly, it increases the price to farmers for fat cattle and, secondly, it forces buyers of store cattle for export to pay an equivalent price for stores. If this money were not provided, factories might not be able to pay a competitive price for fat cattle. Consequently, buyers of store cattle for export could have the available supplies of cattle to themselves. I think it is extremely unlikely that in that event they would buy all the available cattle which amount to about one million head or twice as many as they bought last year and, at the same time, pay twice as high a price for cattle as they are forced to pay at present.

It is clear, therefore, I hope, that the subsidy is of far greater benefit than its apparent face value would suggest. Not only this but farmers also get the benefit of £1 million or thereabouts on subsidies on carcase beef and lamb recouped from the British Government and which are passed on in full to the Irish farmer.

I would not agree with that argument. I would refer the Minister to Article 2 of Appendix (ii) of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement, a copy of which I happen to have before me.

It would be interesting to hear the Deputy explain this away.

I expected the Minister to bring the matter up: that is why I brought a copy along.

Deputy Donegan asked also how, if the cost of the agricultural concessions is £4.35 million, the result could be £12 million support for agricultural incomes in a full year. While the cost of the agricultural concessions for 1971-72 will be £4.35 million, the cost in a full year is £6 million, mainly because of the extra subsidies on milk which amount to about £1½ million more in a full year. The other £6 million arises from higher prices for fat cattle, sheep, pigs and liquid milk sold on the home market and which are brought about because of higher export subsidies. The effect of the higher price for store cattle, resulting from the carcase beef subsidy to which I have just referred, is also included in that calculation.

That is merely a good guess or a bad guess.

Liquid milk has nothing to do with the Budget because it does not involve any Exchequer expenditure.

I do not know whether the Deputy was listening to what I said which was that these increases were brought about as a result of the Budget concessions. Of course there is a direct relationship between the recent increase in liquid milk prices and the recent increase in creamery milk prices.

Would the Minister not agree that the figure of £1.4 million and its effects are merely a guess or, at kindest, an estimate?

It is an estimate, of course.

That is what I wanted the Minister to say.

But it is very much more accurate than the Deputy would lead us to believe from what he says.

The people can decide that when they are given a chance to do so.

The Deputy is well aware that the farmers of this country are not too unhappy.

Wait and see.

The Minister must have been talking to one recently.

A number of Deputies have referred to the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement. In particular, it was referred to by Deputy Corish. I should like to remind the House that this agreement has been in force now for almost five years and the elimination of tariff protection against imports from Britain has now reached the half way stage. There has been criticism of recent factory closures in that they were due to the operation of this agreement. Indeed, I think this is becoming an accepted gospel by many people. Certainly, it is being repeated as gospel by Deputies in this House. I have said before but I shall say again that if Deputies would care to look at the factories that have been closing they will find that in many cases they were factories that were established for the export market, and, therefore, could not be affected by the agreement.

Look at the shops that have gone.

Hold it now. That category could not be affected by the Free Trade Area Agreement because they were for the export market. Secondly, there is another category which suffered a great deal of closures and some redundancies — one particular industry I have in mind is the shoe industry — at a time when they were protected by quota. Clearly, the operation of the agreement could not have affected them and anybody who knows anything about the structure of the industry knows that what happened in the past was not due to the Free Trade Area Agreement. I am not saying that the Free Trade Area Agreement if it were to operate in the future as was envisaged originally would not affect that industry but I am saying that the closures were not in any way connected with the agreement.

Would the Minister care to comment on the dramatic change between 1966 and 1970 in the trading balance between this country and Great Britain?

I am coming to that.

I knew the Minister would not forget it.

There are other factors at the moment. For instance, there is depression in the international market. What is happening in the textile industry throughout the world is well known. Of course, this is affecting factories here and while it does not make it any easier for the workers concerned if they become redundant, at least they should not be told that the problems are due to the Anglo Irish Free Trade Area Agreement because they are due to a recession in the textile industry throughout the world.

Would the Minister not agree that the closure of shoe factories took place prior to July of 1970 when it was known that the quota was going at the end of July of 1970? All that could have been affected by that knowledge and the knowledge also that the Minister and the Government have not moved under the year of review which ends in four weeks time.

The Deputy is wrong.

I am not.

I would remind Deputies that questions may not be asked until after the Minister has concluded.

The Deputy is wrong in saying that the Government did not move.

Not until four weeks ago and until I made you do so.

The Minister must be allowed to reply.

I would point out to the House that under the provisions of the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement — at this half way stage of it — a review is taking place and discussions are taking place with the British Government arising out of which it will be open to us to exclude from the further operation of the agreement, goods accounting for not more than 3 per cent by value of the total imports from the UK in the year ended 30th June, 1970.

In addition to that there are the temporary safeguarding provisions that we have operated on one or two occasions in the past and which we shall continue to operate in the future. Therefore, I do not think we need fear undue difficulty on our side in regard to the operation of the agreement. Of course, the agreement is designed to benefit both parties and not merely us. All the gains have not been on the British side and I would suggest that this is shown by the fact that the annual value of our exports to the UK increased by 79 per cent between 1965 and 1970.

As Deputies are aware, the British Government will introduce the system of import levies on agricultural products from 1st July next. This step is part of a general move away from the present deficiency payments system to a system similar to that operating in the European Community. Special arrangements will be made for Irish exports in the new system. Final details of these arrangements have not yet been worked out but our exports will not be subject to any levy or minimum import price arrangement. Also, we have secured an increase of 3,000 tons in our basic quota for butter supplies in 1971-72. This increase, together with our supplementary allocation of 2,000 tons, makes our total quota 35,000 tons, the highest ever.

Is that not because they could not get it elsewhere?

The agreed quantity for cheddar cheese exports for the year 1971-72 has been increased to 20,000 tons. Our agricultural exports to the UK should therefore continue to do well, while the termination of the British import deposit scheme since last December should contribute to increasing our industrial exports there. It is true that our imports from Britain have been rising but the significant thing is that they are rising roughly at the same rate as our imports from other countries.

That is great consolation.

It shows that the Free Trade Area Agreement does not mean that we are flooded with British goods. Actually, the inflation we have been suffering from has been pushing up the value of imports also but whatever the cause let us try to get the facts right. It is no use saying that as a result of the Free Trade Area Agreement British imports are flooding in. In fact imports from other countries are increasing at roughly the same rate.

There is a turnabout in our balance of trade for four years now. Will the Minister explain that away?

It is a reflection of our overall economic trading and our inflation.

We have a deficit now of £60 million where we had a surplus of £15 million four or five years ago.

It was very unusual, as the Deputy knows, to have such a surplus.

(Interruptions.)

The Minister must be allowed to make his statement.

Deputy FitzGerald referred to the extent to which sectoral growth figures differ from the targets set in the Third Programme and he asked what is the point in talking about planning when there is an appreciable difference between out-turn and projection. I would remind the Deputy of two things, first, that the Third Programme did not attempt to set out a growth plan towards the targets projected for 1972. Deputy FitzGerald better than most, I think, is aware that the unruly elements, if I might call them that, in our economy, are two numerous to allow for any such smooth path plotting. In the absence of a growth path, no definitive comparison between out-turn and projection is possible midway through the programme. The best that can be done is to do what in fact we did in the Review of the Third Programme and that was to assume growth paths based on the average annual rate of growth implicit in the programme targets and make comparisons with these. But this had its deficiencies and the review drew attention to these deficiencies and pointed out that only trends which deviate unduly from the average annual rates of growth can be considered as having significant implications for the realisation of the objectives of the programme. Even with this qualification there is need for caution. It is possible to read too much significance into trends covering relatively short periods.

It is true that we have been through a period of difficulty and that the Third Programme targets are endangered but an upward movement in trends can come about very quickly and I believe from the indicators that such a change is taking place so that at the end of the course the programme targets may not be very far from realisation. Here, we should remember what happened in regard to the Second Programme. At the end of 1967 the pessimists were pointing to the gaps between the output projection and performance under the programme and were referring to its failure. The fact is that at the end of the seven year period for which the programme was scheduled to run the growth of output overall was reasonably close to that projected, thanks to the upturn in 1968 and 1969. Clearly, therefore, hasty judgments based on provisional data are best avoided in estimating the overall out-turn of economic programmes.

Will we have the 100,000 new jobs by this year?

The second point about which I should like to remind the Deputy is that in essence economic programmes are statements of what can be achieved, given certain policies and certain conditions. The Third Programme followed this; it set out the assumptions and it is quite clear that these assumptions have not been met in 1969 and 1970. It would be wrong to conclude from this, I believe, that considerations such as those I have outlined negative the value of planning. If we wish to shape our future we shall not do so by depending on chance. Only by conscious decision resolutely followed through can we achieve this. This means planning. Only in this way can policies and decisions be related to each other in any consistent framework and only in this way can we identify areas of weakness and causes of failure and separate what is realistic from what is not. Not to plan is to drift and it is neither my intention nor that of the Government to allow our economy to drift.

No mention of the problems of the west of Ireland. Can we not have one or two words?

Do not mind the words: I have the action in the Budget. I hope the Deputy noted it. The west was not forgotten in the Budget, as the Deputy should know.

It was not forgotten in knocking off the dole, which was restored pretty quickly.

(Interruptions.)

I want to say a word about the value added tax. In my Financial Statement I referred to the recently published White Paper setting out our proposals for the value added system of tax and I asked that the views of interested bodies should be submitted by 1st June. Many trade associations and interested bodies have already communicated their views on the value added tax scheme to the Revenue Commissioners and these views will be given the fullest consideration when legislative proposals are being prepared. I should like to remind those organisations that intend to give their views on the tax but have not already done so to expedite the preparation and submission of their observations.

In the debate Deputy Power referred to the application of the value added tax to marts. There are certain problems in connection with the operation of the tax on sales in marts and it is hoped that, in discussions with the interests involved, the Revenue Commissioners will work out acceptable arrangements. It should certainly be possible to do so.

Will the Minister extend the time?

If it should turn out to be necessary to extend it, of course I shall consider it.

There has not been enough discussion about it.

There has been plenty of discussion and there will be much more but let me remind the Deputy — this should appeal to him — the sooner we have value added tax operating the sooner we shall catch many people who are avoiding tax at present. Do not forget that. Some of the people who want to delay it have this in mind— not all of them.

I also want to refer to the national accounts budget. I have included in the budget booklet this year for the first time a version of the Budget drawn up according to national accounting definitions. The purpose of this form of presentation is to provide a comprehensive and consolidated statement of the transactions between the Central Government and the other sectors of the economy. The table incorporates the expenditure of various extra budgetary funds as well as expenditure not directly from the Exchequer. Internal transactions between these funds have been eliminated and the remaining transactions are grouped into categories which help to elicit their economic and financial impact. While this form of budget presentation may be unfamiliar to most Deputies I hope that having had a look at it they will find it useful and that it will contribute to a greater understanding by the House, by economic commentators and by the public in general of what the Budget aims to achieve.

It would be reasonable to say that no serious criticism of the Budget has been advanced in the course of this debate. One thing that I suppose always occurs in Budget debates, but which occurred on this occasion perhaps with greater frequency than usual, was the phenomenon whereby some Deputies not only in the one speech but in the one paragraph and some of them in the one sentence at the same time complain about increased taxation and also call for increased expenditure. This, in fact, is so common that I really think some of the Deputies concerned are not conscious of what they are doing. However, the public is conscious of it and they cannot be fooled in this way. I think Deputies would do well to remember that.

The main problem in this Budget has been to try to steer a course between, if I may reach back into my semi-classical education, Scylla and Charybdis; between the Scylla of rampant inflation and huge balance of payments deficits and the Charybdis of massive deflation with intolerable levels of unemployment, emigration and human misery. I think we have achieved the right course to have avoided both of these extremes while still looking after the most deserving sections of our community. This is widely recognised at home and abroad and this recognition abroad is extremely important to our standing and credit and to the continuance of investment here.

It is, of course, easy to argue for and indeed agree to the provision of much more money for the needier sections of our community but in our current economic situation to do so would be doing them no favour, because to add in that way to the inflation from which we have been suffering would be to inflict on them greater hardship than on any other section of the community because they are the people who suffer most.

I have dealt with most of the main points raised in the Budget but there are a few other things which I believe need to be said. When I look back on this debate I can only regret that the news media have not reported the Opposition's contributions more fully.

A Deputy

Hear, hear.

I do not know whether this was brought about through considerations of space or through simple charity. I do know if the public were aware of the marathon of fatuity rustled up on the Opposition benches it would be of considerable help to this party.

And boy do they need it?

I wonder if the Opposition and Fine Gael, in particular, appreciate the disappointment their supporters must feel at what was a very inadequate performance. In a Budget debate Deputies have reasonable liberty and a good opportunity to make a serious contribution to a review of the national economy but, with some exceptions, all we heard from the opposite benches was a monotonous repetition of the time-worn Fine Gael conundrum — less taxation and more benefits. It is obvious that few people over there are doing their homework. These few are trying to carry Fine Gael on their backs. I do not know how they organise it. I presume the lace curtain Irish of the Fine Gael front bench stroll in here of an afternoon hoping to collect scripts which have been sweated over by the one or two real workers amongst them. It has been painfully obvious in this debate that the script machine was not able to cope with the strain. It must, I believe, be really galling for those who work and act as if Fine Gael were a serious political party to find that their labours are in no way recognised.

That is very weak.

It is school debating.

It is not even that.

This does not surprise any of us. Fine Gael have never believed in hard work. What they believed in was gimmicks and the latest gimmick is to pass over completely the few workers on their front bench——

(Interruptions.)

Whether we agree with him or not we can always rely on Deputy FitzGerald for an intelligent contribution. His greatest weakness is that his political judgment is woefully unsound but, of course, that is why he is in Fine Gael.

The Minister's time seems to be up.

A very bad epilogue. A very Micky Mouse one.

A Deputy

A super-mouse has arrived.

(Interruptions.)

Throughout this debate and throughout all the recent discussions we have had in this House——

I do not want to destroy the Minister's passage but his time is up.

The Minister is in order.

I know Deputy O'Higgins does not like it.

The boys are not coming in.

We have been listening in all these debates in recent times to the Fine Gael Party parroting about credibility. Let me remind the Fine Gael Party that the people of this country have shown in the recent by-elections in Donegal and South County Dublin who they believe to be credible and who they believe to be incredible.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

In the by-election in South County Dublin where Fine Gael fondly imagined they had everything going for them they lost 2,000 first preferences.

It is quite clear even their own supporters are getting fed up with their carry-on. Fine Gael now, as in the past, do not concern themselves with the nation's business. They have no deep-rooted philosophy. Historically, of course, Fine Gael is an amalgam of political residues.

Surely the Minister was to conclude at a quarter past ten?

Can the Deputy not take it?

Let us get this clear.

For the Deputy's information, the proceedings were to conclude at 10.30 p.m.

And the Minister's time?

The Minister was to be called at 9.15.

It is a pity the Minister would not circulate his speech as he had it written out in front of him.

Does the Deputy not like it?

Who wrote it for the Minister?

It is rather school-boyish prose.

You cannot even give it, never mind take it.

I was talking about the pathetic party opposite. Any pretensions it has to office are based on unprincipled opportunism. Fine Gael house the only manifestation of Fascism we ever had in this country in the past. Now some of them are under the illusion that they can discuss this as socialists.

The Minister is really stuck when he has to descend to that.

This totally inefficient and muddled group is in no way credible as a party. It is nothing but a collection——

What is Deputy Andrews saying? If he has anything to say let him say it out loud.

It is nothing but a collection of personalities in search of a character.

Fianna Fáil are in search of a leader at the moment.

We have had problems——

You certainly have.

——in Fianna Fáil but there is hardly any disagreement on fundamental philosophy in our party. Fine Gael must be the only political group in the world who campaigned up and down the country for a policy in which their own leader did not believe.

That is rubbish, absolute rubbish, and the Minister knows it.

In my opinion that is stretching political credibility just about as far as it can be stretched.

That is untrue and the Minister knows it is untrue.

This, of course, is quite in line with Fine Gael's attitude to the Budget. The trick is, as I have already indicated, to attack it on the one hand for not dealing with inflation and then in the next breath advocate inflationary policies. But this Government has got on with the real business of the nation; the people realise this and, with their help, we will succeed. There is little point in hoping for help from Fine Gael: even if they knew what to do they would not know how to go about doing it.

A recent gimmick is the suggestion that Fianna Fáil are not concerned with the fishing industry in the EEC. We welcome Fine Gael's belated interest in the Irish fishing industry. In our efforts to protect the fishing industry we welcome the united support of the whole community. Frankly, we do not need any prompting from the Opposition benches. Under the benevolent guidance of successive Fianna Fáil Governments over the past ten years commercial fishing has grown from a disorganised collection of local units into a modern integrated industry now worth £7 million to the national economy and it is anticipated that that figure will grow to £14 million by 1974. The value of the Irish fishing fleet has more than doubled in seven years and the value of fish landings and fish exports has trebled since 1963. New boatyards have been built and old ones modernised. This did not happen by accident. It happened because Fianna Fáil had national support in creating a great native industry and the confidence in Ireland's fishing industry today is shown by the annual investment rate in new vessels. In 1970, £1 million was invested in new trawlers. It was not today or yesterday that Fianna Fáil concerned itself with the Irish fishing industry. We, as a Government, have every confidence that our prospective partners in the EEC will appreciate the importance of our fishing industry and will, furthermore, appreciate the value of conservation to the whole European Community.

We have had in recent times from the various witnesses of the Labour Party a good deal of unctuous self-righteousness about political standards. It is, I think, now widely appreciated that the Labour Party is in total disarray.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

It was not the Labour Party that were fighting in Ballsbridge.

We, in Fianna Fáil, have had our share of lecturing about political probity from the self-styled Labour Party. It is amusing for us to observe that it is the most unctuous among them who are now scrapping party policy in a race for seats at the bottom of the Fine Gael table. The ground is being prepared. The latest cliché is "It is the Irish people who will decide about the EEC"; in other words they are saying "It has nothing to do with us". This Pontius Pilate performance——

(Interruptions.)

Who wrote that for the Minister?

One of the most vocal socialists of two years ago has circulated in his constituency this card, pamphlet, document — whatever you like to call it — pointing out that socialism does not mean that everything will be nationalised. On the back of the card there is what I can only describe as a litany of quotations from Popes and pastors. Talk about "kissing the rod"; I suggest that all this card needs is 300 days indulgence and it could be put into the new prayer book.

What about the £600 worth of Christmas cards sent out by Deputy Fahey?

This is from our best known international socialist and this plea for ecclesiastical sanction should, I think, be recognised as coming from this well-known international socialist. However, there is nothing I can say about the Labour Party that has not already been said by their own members. As far as I am concerned, when I look across there, I am satisfied we will be here for a very long time. If Deputies over there would do their homework and settle down to being a proper Opposition they would then be fulfilling their proper role.

Question put.
The Committee divided: Tá, 62; Níl, 53.

  • Aiken, Frank.
  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Boylan, Terence.
  • Brady, Philip A.
  • Brennan, Joseph.
  • Brennan, Paudge.
  • Brosnan, Seán.
  • Browne, Patrick.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Burke, Patrick J.
  • Carter, Frank.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Dublin Central).
  • Foley, Desmond.
  • Forde, Paddy.
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, James.
  • Geoghegan, John.
  • Gibbons, James.
  • Haughey, Charles.
  • Healy, Augustine A.
  • Herbert, Michael.
  • Hillery, Patrick J.
  • Hilliard, Michael.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Kitt, Michael F.
  • Lalor, Patrick J.
  • Lemass, Noel T.
  • Carty, Michael.
  • Colley, George.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Connolly, Gerard C.
  • Cowen, Bernard.
  • Cronin, Jerry.
  • Crowley, Flor.
  • Cunningham, Liam.
  • Davern, Noel.
  • Delap, Patrick.
  • de Valera, Vivion.
  • Dowling, Joe.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Lynch, Celia.
  • Lynch, John.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • Meaney, Thomas.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Moore, Seán.
  • Moran, Michael.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • O'Connor, Timothy.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Des.
  • Power, Patrick.
  • Sherwin, Seán.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Timmons, Eugene.
  • Wyse, Pearse.

Níl

  • Barry, Peter.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Belton, Luke.
  • Belton, Paddy.
  • Browne, Noel.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Burke, Joan.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Burton, Philip.
  • Clinton, Mark A.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Conlan, John F.
  • Coogan, Fintan.
  • Cooney, Patrick M.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Cott, Gerard.
  • Coughlan, Stephen.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Dockrell, Henry P.
  • Dockrell, Maurice E.
  • Donegan, Patrick S.
  • Donnellan, John.
  • Dunne, Thomas.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • Esmonde, Sir Anthony C.
  • Finn, Martin.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Cavan).
  • Fox, Billy.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hogan O'Higgins, Brigid.
  • Jones, Denis F.
  • Kavanagh, Liam.
  • Kenny, Henry.
  • L'Estrange, Gerald.
  • McLaughlin, Joseph.
  • McMahon, Lawrence.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • O'Connell, John F.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Donovan, John.
  • O'Hara, Thomas.
  • O'Higgins, Thomas F.
  • O'Reilly, Paddy.
  • O'Sullivan, John L.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Spring, Dan.
  • Taylor, Francis.
  • Thornley, David.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Tully, James.
Tellers:— Tá: Deputies Andrews and Meaney; Níl: Deputies L'Estrange and Cluskey.
Question declared carried.
Resolutions Nos. 1 to 8 reported and agreed to.
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