asked the Minister for Justice (a) the number of State cars used by members of the Oireachtas, (b) the year of manufacture of each vehicle, (c) the total mileage of each vehicle, (d) the total maintenance cost, excluding petrol and (e) the total running cost, including petrol, et cetera, based on a monthly average for each vehicle.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - State Cars.
30.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 29 and 30 together.
The number of cars on ordinary patrol duties in Donegal is six. Two were manufactured in 1968 and the remainder in 1969. Average mileage covered by the cars is 99,090.
The total number of State cars—including relief cars—used by Members of the Oireachtas is 33. Of these two were manufactured in 1966, two in 1967, six in 1968, nine in 1969 and 14 in 1970. The average mileage of the cars is 66,576.
The compilation of the information sought by the Deputy at parts (d) and (e) of the question would take a great deal of time and the expense involved would be out of proportion to the value of the information.
The Minister says that he has cars under his control but he cannot tell what it takes to run them per year?
Not each individual car.
Why would the Minister know the total if he did not know the individual amounts?
The Deputy asks for the total maintenance cost excluding petrol and the total running cost including petrol et cetera based on a monthly average. The total cost of all of them is worked out but it varies from county to county and it would necessitate going into the records of each individual car in order to get it and I am advised that it would take about four weeks before all that information could be assembled.
In the case of a well-conducted business a business firm can be told by the auditors how much it is costing to keep a motor car on the road. Is the Minister now telling us that the Department of Justice have State cars but he cannot tell us how much it costs to keep a State car on the road?
It would take about four weeks work to ascertain the cost of each individual car if it were to be ascertained in detail and I am not prepared to ask the Garda to do it.
Does that mean we do not know what is the cost?
The Deputy can make it out from year to year on the Estimates. I am not prepared to ask the Garda to waste their time totting up the bill for each individual car.
They just pay it.
I have not got the cost.
Can the Minister give the annual replacement cost?
The provision has increased from £116,500 to £221,000.
May I ask the Minister if he is seriously telling us that it would take the Department four weeks to tell us the cost of running six cars in County Donegal? May I further ask the Minister if it is not a practice to keep a logbook in the car?
To get the cost of each individual car in County Donegal would necessitate going to district headquarters and sub-district areas covered by each individual car, getting garage bills, petrol bills and everything else and adding them up. Frankly, the gardaí have more to do than that.
What I want to establish is how much it is costing to keep six Garda patrol cars in Donegal as against three State cars?
I have given the Deputy all the figures readily available. He asked me to give figures for each of six individual cars.
There are six patrol cars controlling the whole area of County Donegal and there are three State cars. There are half as many State cars driving members of the Oireachtas in County Donegal at a time when we have not half enough patrol cars.
Is part of the delay in getting the figures due to the fact that the State are not too good at paying their accounts?
No.
Is it not true that garages throughout the country find it impossible to get payment from the Department of Justice?
Garages throughout the country are very glad to get the business.
Minister for Defence to reply to Question No. 31.
On a point of order, we put down this question, Deputy Burke and I, to the Taoiseach because we considered that it transcended in importance the consideration of any single Department. It was transferred to the Minister for Defence without any reference to Deputy Burke or myself. Is that in order?
Yes, it has been permitted.
Is it in order for the Questions Office to make that change without coming back to the Deputies concerned? Is it a Standing Order?
It is not a Standing Order but it has been done.
Is this part of a system to prevent the Taoiseach facing up to replying to a question which is obviously of embarrassment to him?
I do not think so. Perhaps the question has been transferred to a Minister who would have more intimate knowledge of the subject than the Taoiseach.
Surely it is not suggested by the Chair that the Taoiseach would not have more than enough knowledge to answer the question which is one which should not be answered by a single Department because of its national importance?
How is it that the Taoiseach answered the same question two years ago when I tabled it?
We cannot have a debate on this. I am calling Question No. 31.