asked the Minister for Justice whether any check is maintained on the possession or purchase of gelignite; whether any up-to-date examination of licence holders is maintained; and whether there is any subsequent check on its use.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Gelignite Purchases.
111.
The sale, purchase, conveyance and storage of explosives are governed by an elaborate series of provisions in the Explosives Acts and a series of statutory orders made thereunder.
Persons who do not have a licensed store or other specially approved place of storage are permitted to obtain small quantities of explosives on the basis of a Garda certificate.
While it would be impossible to maintain a watertight control unless a member of the Garda Síochána were to supervise and check on the exact quantity of explosives used in every explosion at quarries and in other comparable circumstances, I am satisfied that the Garda Síochána are conscious of the need to maintain, and do, in fact, maintain, the closest possible supervision over explosives.
Will the Minister do all in his power to ensure that gelignite will not be used in outrages in the Six Counties where civilians and children may be the possible victims? In view of the position there is the Minister satisfied that existing controls and precautions are adequate at the present time?
I have no reason to believe that the gelignite used in the recent outrages in the Six Counties emanated from the Twenty-six Counties. Certainly the gardaí are very conscious of the need to keep the closest possible watch on it and they do that, but there are obvious difficulties in having 100 per cent supervision.
I am not stating categorically that it was used. I have no evidence to that effect. I am merely asking the Minister to ensure, while the situation is as it is in that area, that the precautions, which may have been adequate in the past to control gelignite, are tightened considerably. Could the Minister tell the House whether there has, in fact, been a general tightening up?
Yes, in the past few months the gardaí have been asked to re-double their efforts. Inspections of places where explosives are held are made much more frequently than they were before.
Have any loopholes been discovered? Has there been any non-use of gelignite issued? I know this is a very difficult thing to check on but the Minister will appreciate that if there was a deliberate attempt to misuse gelignite issued under the present regulations, this could, in fact, take place.
There are possible loopholes. They have not come recently to the knowledge of the gardaí —the gardaí always had knowledge of them. The main problem from the practical point of view is that if six sticks of gelignite are issued to an employee to do a particular job, unless there is a guard actually standing over him to count him putting in the six sticks and watching the explosion of them it is impossible to be certain that all six sticks were used. It would be possible for the employee to use five sticks and put one in his pocket.
Could the Minister not bring in regulations compelling the employer to report on the actual use of the gelignite? A very strict Firearms Bill recently passed through the House but it could be suggested that gelignite can be far more evil. In certain circumstances it can go through the safety net and fall into the wrong hands and although we have no evidence of it, it may be used in outrages in which children and civilians could lose their lives.
I have no evidence of that fact but the Deputy will be aware that a Bill entitled the Dangerous Substances Bill, 1971, got a First Reading here and while that is primarily a matter for the Minister for Labour he and I are endeavouring to do everything possible to tighten up on explosives.