Much as I am tempted to do so, I do not propose to follow Deputy Power and deliver a political speech on this most important Estimate. I have always held that education is such a vital matter and of such vital significance to the nation that it should, if at all possible, transcend party politics. On the few occasions when Deputy Power spoke as an educationist he was quite good but where he spoke as a politician his speech was more suited to a church gate by-election meeting.
I said I would not make a political speech and I shall not preach any philosophy or deal with education in a purely theoretical manner. Deputy FitzGerald has dealt with the whole field of education in a realistic and comprehensive manner but there are certain areas in which I am particularly interested and where problems have to be solved. I shall confine my comments to these areas.
On every occasion in the last ten years when we have had a debate on education I have started my speech, although I was leaving myself open to being accused of being parochial, by pleading for a university for Limerick. I could not do better tonight than to start in the same fashion. At page 18 of the Minister's speech he referred to the Limerick Institute of Higher Education. We were all set in Limerick for the opening of our new Institute of Higher Education last September. After years of struggle and agitation and years of effort we saw our hopes beginning to be realised. Pupils in their final year of their post-primary courses were looking forward eagerly to enrolling in that new institute. About May or June all our hopes were dashed when it was announced that the college would not open on the projected date, September, 1971.
There was considerable resentment and disappointment. Now we are into 1972 and all seems ready for the opening of the college and it would appear from the progress that has been made in the last couple of months that there is a good likelihood that it will open next September. I want to warn the Minister that while the people of Limerick were really very tolerant, despite the colossal disappointment they suffered last year, any further postponement of the opening date will just not be tolerated. I was glad to see in today's newspapers an announcement by the director of the institute of the filling of seven key posts as lecturers. I hope the additional staffing requirements will be filled without further delay and that all the administrative posts and so forth will be filled in good time so that the college will be ready to enrol pupils as from next September.
I am hopeful that at long last the long-awaited institute of higher education in Limerick will be a reality next September. The Minister will have a terrible row on his hands, will be really in serious trouble, if it does not go ahead on the projected opening date. This new national Institute of Higher Education, as it is now being called, is a good development, not merely for Limerick but nationally, because it represents a new dimension in third level education in that the courses in this College will be technologically and commercially orientated. This is a very desirable development. The courses, instead of being along the traditional pattern of university courses and university faculties, will be of a type which we have not had in this country before—courses in engineering sciences of various specialties, computer science, business administration, secretarial science and languages, and, of course, there will eventually, all going well, be a new national college of physical education on the same campus which I assume will ultimately be part of the whole third level complex in Limerick.
Looking at the composition of the courses and the different types of degrees and qualifications that will be conferred there, I think it is a pity that the Minister did not go the whole hog, and instead of calling it the National Institute of Higher Education, he called it what, in fact, it is, a university. We are very anxious that this college would be designated as a full university. We know that there was opposition from the vested interests in other universities and a compromise has now been reached in that it is to be called the National Institute of Higher Education. I suppose there is no point in falling out on the terminology or the title. The main thing is that this institute will be providing courses of a type that have not yet been provided in this country. These courses have been geared to meet the technological developments in industry, in science, in engineering and in agriculture for which there is a tremendous need, and this higher education institute at Plassy near Limerick, taken in conjuction with the regional technical colleges to which the Minister referred, will fill a very great need in the educational field, that is, the need for trained technicians, trained technologists and trained experts in various specialised fields.
The fact that this institute is located in Limerick is significant by reason of the fact that the first industrial estate in this country was established at Shannon and now that the scope of the work of the Shannon Development Company has been extended from Shannon Airport to Limerick, Clare and North Tipperary, there will be further industrial development. One of the big complaints of the various industrialists, particularly from abroad, who have come to the Shannon region and set up industries there was the fact that in some cases it was an almost impossible task to find trained and skilled people, with an adequate supply of unskilled labour as there would be in any largely rural and agricultural area. There was a serious shortage of trained people but, fortunately, many Irish people who had emigrated to Britain and had acquired skills and expertise there were persuaded to come back and have settled down and got on very well.
While I have on many occasions down the years been highly critical of the Department because of the dilatory manner in which it approached the establishment of this college, I want to say on behalf of the people whom I represent here, the people of the Limerick region and of the whole area generally, that we are looking forward eagerly to the opening of this college next September. We sincerely hope it will live up to our expectations and will play an important role in educational development in the years ahead. If this college is to be as successful as we hope it will be and as I personally expect it will be, much of the credit will be due to the fact that we were extremely fortunate in securing the services of an outstanding young man, the director of the institute, Dr. Walsh, who, since his appointment, against tremendous odds and difficulties of many kinds, has succeeded in getting the college off the ground. He is now recruiting staff and has succeeded in attracting in the seven appointments made—I suppose these will be the heads of the various faculties—people not merely of the highest qualifications but of international standing.
The Minister referred to the new college, the national college of physical education, which is to be established in the same place, in Plassy. This is a very desirable development and it, too, will fill a very great need in the educational sphere. Physical education is of vital importance as part of the national educational process. It is a field which has been seriously neglected down the years and its establishment will ensure that we have an adequate supply of teachers for the various schools, primary, post-primary, third level and so on, which is so vitally necessary. The present system whereby we sent a certain number of people abroad to be trained is not a satisfactory system.
In addition to these developments in Limerick, there is another in my constituency—the fact that one of the new regional technical colleges will go up there, the regional technical school. I was particularly interested in the Minister's references to certain aspects of the functions of these institutes. He mentioned the type of courses that would be provided there. He did not go into detail about them but referred to them in a broad general way. I am particularly interested to find that he referred to the need to train technicians and people in various skills and he referred to computer operators and to courses in food technology.
While food technology and the Minister's estimate may appear to be poles apart I regard it as highly relevant, particularly in view of our entry into EEC and the fact that we are basically an agricultural country and that there must be possibilities for a vast expansion in view of our industrial development in food processing industries. Naturally, if we are to succeed in food processing it will be vitally important to have people with the necessary skill, expertise training and education in this highly complex science. This is something which has been overlooked for far too long. Particularly in an area like Limerick with a huge milk processing industry and a background in food processing of various kinds, I envisage that provision of courses in food technology would be very important in the new regional technical schools or even in the National Institute of Higher Education being established there.
I have discussed this with Dr. Walsh on a number of occasions and in the course of his fact-finding mission after being appointed to Limerick, he interviewed everybody interested in education including all the public representatives. I emphasised to him that I was very keen on the idea of advanced courses in food technology being provided and felt that the Limerick college was an ideal place to set this up. Certain work is being done in the Agricultural Institute and in the dairy science faculty in UCC but this is totally inadequate to meet the overall needs of the country. I hope the Minister will bear this in mind. There might be a possibility of adding this at some future stage, not just at post-primary or technical school level but at the third or higher educational level.
Listening to Deputy Power one would think all was well in the field of education and that everybody was happy, thanks be to Fianna Fáil. That was his attitude. It would be far better for him and for all Deputies interested in education to face the penalties of the situation which in my opinion are that at present education is in a very confused state. I would hesitate to say that it is in a state of chaos but there is confusion and uncertainty and more and more people are beginning to doubt if even the Minister and his Department know where they are going. Therefore, it is vital that there should be forward, comprehensive national planning in education. As a first step towards formulating this type of national planning for educational development, the whole complex field of education must be looked at on a national basis. Problems must be identified and remedies thought up taking into account our resources which are scarce, as the Minister says. Unless this is done education will get into more and more trouble.
Therefore, I suggest—I think it has been suggested by one or two other Deputies—that the Minister should consider the whole field of education, assess our resources, examine the various systems and see where we are going and, most important, decide where we want to go. Having done that, a White Paper should be published outlining the Government's and the Minister's thinking and the attitude of the Department to education. Modern life is highly complex and what may be said about the need for overall, comprehensive planning in relation to the activities of other State Departments is just as applicable, if not more so, in the field of education. The progress any country makes, economically, socially and otherwise, will be largely determined by its educational system.
I have always believed that in a country like ours which, socially and economically by comparison with other countries can be regarded as underdeveloped, more and more of our financial resources should be devoted to education. Now, that we are contemplating entry to the EEC and when doubts and fears are being expressed about our survival—personally I have no doubt about it; I am an ardent pro-European—and while calls have been made on the Government to gear up our industrial arm, our agriculture, our transport services and other sectors in preparation for EEC entry, too little emphasis has been laid on the absolute need to gear up our educational system. Our survival and progress in the EEC will be determined, to an extent not yet fully appreciated, by the manner in which we can gear our educational system to prepare our people for entry and to provide a pool of skilled persons at all levels in industry, agriculture, in business, in tourism and so on.
Therefore, I have grave doubts about the ability of the existing traditional policy of the Department to meet the challenge that is there now and has been with us for some time past and which will certainly grow as time goes on. This type of haphazard, stopgap, patchwork, unco-ordinated policy and legislation that has been coming from the Department in recent years is not good enough and will not enable us to meet the challenge ahead and if we continue in this way we shall find ourselves in serious trouble. We have had developments in education in recent years; we have had breaksthrough in certain ways; There has been a vast expansion in post-primary education and there has been an enormous increase in the demand for university education. The Minister and his Department have not kept pace with that demand and it is only now that they are beginning to wake up and realise the need for an educational revolution. The emphasis has changed from the traditional academic subjects to modern technological and commercially-orientated subjects. There is a very big task facing the Minister and his Department. In the past the Department of Education was the Cinderella of Government Departments. It was presided over by a very junior Minister. In my time here it has become perhaps the hottest seat in the Cabinet.
There is, as I say, a major task facing the Minister. I do not wish to hurl personal abuse at the Minister but I am seriously concerned with the major problem that confronts us in education. This problem must be tackled realistically. There must be forward, long-term planning. The road must be clearly mapped out. We must ensure that all systems—primary, post-primary, technical, technological and university—are properly integrated so that there will be no overlapping and no duplication. Constant surveys will have to be carried out to ensure that the systems are flexible enough to meet the changing demands of industry and agriculture.
Food processing is a very important industry. From the point of view of education, it has been totally neglected. No attempt has been made to provide proper educational and training facilities. Certain small beginnings have been made in some areas to provide limited classes, but this is an industry demanding special skill and special training. It is an industry dependent on the personnel who operate it. There is a course in the college in Rathmines but, overall, no attempt has been made to meet the educational needs of this industry. There is a very big task ahead. If we continue on our present lines we will run into the same difficulties as those which confronted the Minister in the closing of small schools and the introduction of community schools.
I was involved in the closure of Mountpelier school and I said then that the Minister and his Department must be made to realise that people nowadays want to know what is happening. Parents have a right to consultation. They have a right to have their views heard. The day of the bureaucratic civil servant and the dictatorial Minister has gone. Policies and programmes must be spelled out clearly and explained fully. The people must be consulted. I urge on the Minister the desirability of initiating a completely comprehensive survey of the whole educational field and publishing a White Paper to enable public discussion to take place on an informed basis out of which will emerge long-term comprehensive planning. If that is done we will all know where we are going.
The Minister has given details of the close of one- and two-teacher schools. The total number of schools has been reduced by 909; of these, 471 were one-teacher and 389 were two-teacher schools. During 1970, the Minister said, 124 schools were closed and the total number of schools now in operation is 3,929. What are the Minister's intentions with regard to the future closure of schools? Rumour has it that the next schools to be closed will be the three-teacher schools. We had, of course, the classic example of that in Mountpelier. Mountpelier will forever be a memorial to the stupidity of the Minister and his Department. A grave injustice was perpetrated there on the parents and on the pupils. There was an ironclad case for a new school but the parents and pupils were coerced, after a long battle, into accepting the closure of the school. Would the Minister and his Department now make a little gesture of reconciliation to those parents and pupils by providing transport for those of the pupils who elected to go to Killaloe school?
The Minister made an observation that amalgamation of schools frequently results in overstaffing and he is now increasing the incentive bonus from £200 to £400. This bonus is designed to attract teachers from the overstaffed schools to other posts. I understand that the overall situation with regard to the pupil teacher ratio is bad and that it will be a long time before we reach the figure which is recognised as the optimum.
I was pleased to note with regard to primary education that there has been a number of developments in relation to the new curriculum. The Minister said it has been received favourably and I should like to go on record as stating my approval of the curriculum.
With regard to post-primary education, matters are getting more chaotic. Not only has there been the controversy about the concept of the community schools but we have the situation that the Minister has refused to sanction the appointment of additional teachers. During the current school year additional classrooms were provided but in many cases the Department have been unable to pay the grants. There is one case in my constituency where a secondary school had five teachers on the staff but their appointments were not sanctioned. This was despite the fact that the numbers warranted the employment of the teachers and that the school had an A stream. The Department were not paying incremental salaries to the five teachers and the authorities were forced to notify the Department that they would have to close the A school. Finally, the Department agreed to sanction the appointment of two of the five teachers.
There was another case in Limerick where, at the suggestion of the Department, a member of the religious staff went away for three years to train as a domestic science teacher because it was realised this subject was essential for a girls' school. When the teacher returned after three years the Department would not sanction her appointment. There have been numerous similar cases throughout the country. Last June higher diploma students marched to Leinster House.
If we want to have a satisfactory educational system it is essential that we have the necessary accommodation and that we provide enough teachers. It is no use talking about various courses and a wide range of subjects if the Department are unable or unwilling to sanction the appointment of a sufficient number of teachers. I do not think the Minister referred to this matter in his speech and perhaps he would comment on it in his reply. I have known a number of cases where grants due to secondary schools have not been paid. I know of one case where a grant for a science block, which was approved by the Department, had not been paid up to relatively recently.
The Minister talks about comprehensive schools and the new approach to post-primary education. We have a development in Limerick city where a new comprehensive school is in operation and is proving satisfactory. The Minister went into detail about comprehensive education, where it can be achieved by a larger single unit or, where this is not feasible, through co-operation between existing schools. I have always been in favour of the system whereby in a country schools there were three post-primary schools —the convent school, the Christian Brothers' school and a vocational school. Where three such schools existed there was tremendous scope for co-operation, for sharing teachers and for transferring pupils for certain courses. As a result, a wide range of post-primary courses were available without any controversy as to who was in control. I think this has come to be known as a community of schools. I have seen this phase used but I look on it as realistic co-operation on the part of different schools.
In areas where there is one school there is much anxiety about the senior and junior cycles that are being introduced. I know that some principals have received notification that as from a certain date they will not be allowed to provide senior cycle courses. The Minister should tread cautiously because he will run into serious difficulty with regard to this matter. He must remember that in many of these towns and in the rural areas it will be difficult to sell this idea of senior and junior cycles. These small schools, insignificant as they may be when the emphasis is on larger schools, provided an important service for the people and many of the pupils have made their mark in many walks of life, at home and abroad. In most cases the schools have been run by the religious communities and but for their efforts there would not have been any secondary education in this country in the last 50 years. The Minister should remember all these facts and he must be careful in his approach to this matter. I am speaking about places such as Buttevant and Doneraile and other areas mentioned by other Deputies. Deputy Barry is particularly interested in them, too, and he has been telling me about them.
There has been a colossal growth in the demand for university education in recent years. As has been said, the universities are now bursting at the seams. People thought that the complex at Belfield was huge and that it would never be filled, but it is now fast reaching full capacity. There has been a lot of talk in recent years about student participation in the governing of the universities. The voice of the students in the democratisation of the universities has been referred to. To put it quite simply, students are demanding a greater say in the running of their universities. I believe they are entitled to this say. The Minister has recognised this to a certain degree, although the manner in which he has recognised it has proved to be totally unsatisfactory.
He has appointed students to the governing bodies of different universities. I know he has done this in Dublin and Cork and I presume the same thing has happened in Galway. Theoretically this is very desirable. I am all in favour of student participation and I should like to see much greater student participation. The manner in which the Minister has done it is working out very badly. I know of one or two cases where the student nominated was the serving president of the students' council. More often than not, the president of the students' council is in his final year in college, or he may be doing a post-graduate course. He is appointed at Christmas and he can serve until June or July only when the academic year ends and he departs from college and goes to another area. A six months period is no use because he might have an opportunity of attending only two or three meetings of the governing body.
When the Higher Education Authority Bill was going through this House, the Union of Students of Ireland made a very good case for continuity of student representation on the governing bodies. They wanted three students appointed so that when one retired another student would replace him. If three students were appointed over a three year period and one dropped out he could be replaced. I have in mind the case of University College, Cork. Anyone who reads the papers will have seen that the students' representative on the governing body resigned recently because he was no longer a student of the college and, therefore, he could not be regarded as a satisfactory students' representative. I hope the Minister will fill that vacancy. I have a sneaking feeling that the Minister is not fully converted to the idea of having proper student representation on the governing bodies. Having made a start, it should not be too difficult to devise a method which would give adequate student participation.
Much has been said about students in general, and about university students. There will always be a certain section who are more vocal than others and inclined to be wild, but we hear very little about the vast majority of students—and I am referring to university students—who are responsible, who attend to their studies and who devote a considerable amount of their time to voluntary work; fund raising for charity and assisting the poor and under-priviledged. Unfortunately, this aspect of the activities of students does not get the same publicity and is not highlighted in the same way as the activities of the very vocal minority who tend to hit the headlines. I am fully in favour of proper student participation in all aspects of our higher education institutions. I hope the Minister will devise a satisfactory method of ensuring that there will be proper continuity of student representation.
Last year there was a row over the night courses at UCD. I worked my way through college. I worked during the day and attended university courses at night. Thousands have done the same thing. The system was that new courses started each year and it was possible to enrol each year. Then a cylical system was introduced. A course was started and until it was concluded at the end of three years, another course could not be started. I condemned that inside and outside the House. I felt it was a diabolical decision. It was grossly unfair to hundreds of students who could not afford to go to the university full time and who were glad to avail of the facilities at night. It is a highly nerve-wracking business, it makes colossal demands on one's physical and mental energies, having worked all day to go to the university at night, attend lectures and find time for study, but thousands have done it.
Whoever is responsible, the Minister or the powers-that-be, should be ashamed at not being prepared to provide this facility. More and more of these night courses should be provided in our universities if we believe that education is important. There is a demand for these courses. The universities should be shaken up and made realise that we are now in the second half of the 20th century and that we are not back in Newman's day, much as I admire Cardinal Newman and his concept of university education. We must face facts. It is grossly unfair to the young boy or girl who has the leaving certificate, who does not qualify for a university grant, who takes up a post in a university town, and then cannot do night courses without having to wait for three years.
Only two courses are provided, a BA and a B.Com. I cannot see any reason why a wider range of courses could not be provided at night by the universities. Last year when this row blew up—and Deputy Desmond was very interested in it too; he might be able to recall the exact reasons which were stated as to why the yearly courses were discontinued—there was some suggestion about the staff being over-worked or some question about the availability of staff. I do not accept this at all. Could the Minister do something about this? Could he look into it? There is a very big demand from people who are anxious to pursue university courses at night and this facility should be provided.
Furthermore, the Minister should now seriously explore the possibilities of the concept of the open university. When he is replying to the debate I would be very grateful if he would tell me whether or not this matter has been considered by him and his Department and, if so, what conclusion they have arrived at. I have also been in favour of the universities providing extern degrees, such as is done by London University, where one can study at home by way of correspondence and tutorial courses and qualify for a wide range of degrees. I cannot understand why the National University or Trinity College, Dublin, could not provide such courses. Each university should provide a wide range of night courses and courses for extern students not resident in a university town. Otherwise the privilege of university education is confined to a relatively few very brilliant students who can obtain university grants or students whose parents can afford to pay for third level education.
The development of the open university in Britain is a very interesting one. The fact that this is a small country with a very small population as compared with the population in Britain may make an open university not economically possible. I am in favour of universities going out to the people, coming down from their ivory tower and making courses available to the largest possible numbers.
In that context, I come to the next point I want to make. It is in regard to adult education—a matter that I have been speaking about in this House for the past ten years and to which the Minister has made no reference in his introductory statement. Whether we like it or not, whether we recognise it or not, adult education is an integral part of the educational system of all modern democracies. There have been certain developments here in the field of adult education but, with the exception of University College, Cork, which has done trojan work throughout Munster in bringing the university to the people by means of their adult education courses, universities have not played their proper role in adult education.
In the 1950s, the then President of University College, Cork, Dr. Alfred O'Rahilly, pioneered the idea of bringing the university to the people in the villages, towns, hamlets and townlands of rural Ireland. I had the opportunity the other day of seeing the schedule of courses of adult education being provided by UCC this year and was tremendously impressed by the range of these courses. They include courses of two years duration, of a high academic standard, culminating in an examination on the passing of which the student is conferred, quite properly, with a diploma.
I do not know to what extent the Minister is financing these courses provided by UCC. I do not know why UCD, Trinity College, Maynooth College and University College, Galway, are not doing the same thing. There is a certain limited range of adult education courses available from these university colleges but the formula that has been devised by UCC and the way in which they have developed adult education courses is a model that other university colleges should follow. I am not too sure as to what exactly is the financial assistance given to UCC for these courses but I do recall that when Dr. O'Rahilly started the courses he got a certain subvention from the Department of Education and that some time in the 1960s that subvention was cut by half—from £10,000 to £5,000.
The Minister has not referred to adult education in his introductory statement. I do not know whether he is interested in the matter or not. In a modern democracy the universities have a vital role to play and they are under an obligation to the community to provide for people in non-university towns the benefit of higher education. There has been a commission examining the whole question of adult education under the chairmanship of that outstanding man, Mr. Con Murphy. An interim report has been published. I understand the final report will be submitted in due course.
I am tired now of speaking of adult education over the years. What we need is a proper national system of adult education. We need the organisation, the structure, the facilities. It requires to be done on a properly organised basis. The University College, Cork, courses are so provided. I should like to see a national system of adult education organised. There should be a special centre from which these courses could be provided, where the work of the universities in the field of adult education could be co-ordinated with the work of other organisations. It would be very remiss of me not to pay tribute to the Catholic Workers College and the Dublin Institute of Sociology and to other bodies throughout the country that have been doing very good work in this field.
It is recognised in all modern democracies that adult education has a vital role to play, that it is an integral part of an educational system. I hope that when the commission that is examining the whole structure of adult education issues its report, the Minister and the Department will take action so that we can look forward to a situation where not merely University College, Cork, but University College, Galway, the Dublin universities and the other institutes of higher education will play their full and proper role in providing adult education.
The Minister referred to the question of school transport, particularly for mentally handicapped children. This is one aspect of the work of the Department of Education about which there is no controversy. Deputy Power appears to be party-orientated in his outlook on education. However the question of the education of mentally handicapped children is one which can be discussed non-politically. The Minister has a serious responsibility in this field. One of the most dramatic and welcome developments in recent years is the way in which the community have begun to take an active interest in the welfare of mentally handicapped children. There are numerous examples of tremendous voluntary effort in the raising of funds and more recently in the provision of actual educational facilities, in the provision of schools, for these children. There is one outstanding example in which I have a personal interest. That is the school at Rathluirc which is servicing a very big area embracing north Cork, east and west Limerick. It is a school, started by a local voluntary organisation, which has 25 pupils on the roll and is open two days a week. The children are brought in by mini-buses and all is paid for through voluntary organisation. This school has not received one penny from the Department of Education. It did not qualify until recently because the premises were inadequate but now they have 25 pupils and excellent premises and the school should be eligible for support. The teachers are working voluntarily. The mini-buses, which travel fairly long distances, are very expensive. Where local community effort has proved itself in a project of that nature it is worthy of support. I am not saying at all that the Minister did not do anything about it, I am merely drawing his attention to the fact that the school appears to be geared now. His Parliamentary Secretary very kindly visited it when he was opening a new school in a particular town during the year and he has taken a very keen interest in it. So have the officials of the Department. I appeal to the Minister to come to the aid of this school now and enable it to be set up on a five-day week basis.