asked the Minister for Local Government if he will initiate a campaign to encourage regular fire drill in schools, offices, factories and shops.
112.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Fire Safety Standards.
111.
asked the Minister for Local Government if adequate regulations exist to ensure that fire escapes and fire fighting equipment are provided in (1) factory premises, (2) office premises, (3) shops, (4) places of public entertainment, (5) multi-storey flats and (6) schools.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 111 and 112 together.
The main statutory provisions with which I am concerned are contained in the Fire Brigades Act, 1940.
Under the 1940 Act a sanitary authority may inspect any building in their area which is believed to be or suspected to be a potentially dangerous building from the point of view of fire and may serve a notice requiring the proprietor to refrain from using the building either totally or partially or until specified precautions are taken.
The Department's advisory fire protection standards provide guidelines in structural fire protection, the provision of essential fire fighting equipment, adequate means of escape, fire drills and evacuation procedures in case of fire.
The main structure of the fire service is being reviewed in the context of local government reorganisation generally and arrangements have been made to augment the professional and administrative staff of my Department engaged on fire service duties.
This staff are currently engaged in an examination of the position in relation to fire protection and prevention, including the publicity and education aspects, the need for and the form of new organisational arrangements and the detailed review of the 1940 Act to determine whether amending legislation is necessary. In addition, a new code of building regulations, under the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act, 1963, incorporating fire protection measures, is in course of preparation.
Am I right in saying that the Parliamentary Secretary has referred to fire drill in the case of fire?
Yes, fire drills and evacuations in the case of fire.
Surely fire drill should not be taken up only when a fire occurs. The time to introduce such drill would be before a fire occurred. Can the Parliamentary Secretary say if there is fire drill in schools and factories and other places where there are large numbers of persons? From experience of previous fires it is known that many lives have been lost because of panic and because of people not knowing how best to get out of the fire area. Fire drill should be taught in schools. I have been informed by constituents who have had experience of teaching both here and in England that fire drill is a regular feature in schools in England.
And in schools here also.
Can the Parliamentary Secretary say in how many schools it is practised? In Dublin where the schools are larger than in any other part of the country I have not been able to find any school in which fire drill is practised.
I attended a school in Dublin more years ago than I care to remember and fire drill was taught and practised in that school.
That is not an answer.
The Department's advisory protection standards provide guidelines for a number of matters including fire drill which is meant to be carried out in factories and other public buildings. There are guidelines on procedures to be adopted and advice to be given. It is a matter for the fire authority and, indeed, for factory owners and owners of other business premises to ensure that this is done.
While this may be so, whose duty is it to ensure that fire drill is carried out in the schools? There should be an intensive course in schools and, also, regular refreshers.
The Parliamentary Secretary referred to guidelines. This is a rather vague word and when using it does the Parliamentary Secretary mean that it is entirely optional as to whether a school has fire drill? If it is optional, does not the Parliamentary Secretary think that, as lives are at stake, it ought to be compulsory?
It would be a good thing if in all schools pupils were taught fire drill among other safety measures such as swimming and life saving. It is something that the schools should do voluntarily.
Would the Parliamentary Secretary not agree that as schools do not do it voluntarily—most of them are not doing it —and since children's lives are at risk, it should be the proper responsibility of the Government to protect lives by ensuring that regulations of this kind are adopted and enforced? Will the Parliamentary Secretary give an undertaking that the Government will do this?
Yes, I will undertake that this aspect of the matter be considered and that we will get some information on it and see what can be done.