asked the Minister for Finance if, further to his reply to a parliamentary question of 23rd March, 1972, he has made any further attempts to investigate the feasibility of setting up the National Economic Council including the participation of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions; whether he has had any meeting with representatives of the ICTU since that date; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - National Economic Council.
5.
I indicated in reply to supplementary questions to the parliamentary question referred to by the Deputy that the ICTU executive council informed me that they could not see any useful purpose being served by a further meeting with all the interested parties and that, this being so, there was nothing further that I could do. The Deputy will appreciate that no further attempts to overcome the stalemate can be made unless ICTU are prepared to alter their position.
May I put it to the Minister that he does not appreciate that ICTU is a statutory nominating body in itself and that, in effect, the legality of what the Minister is doing is open to question? The effect of what the Minister is saying is that in the future no member of congress can be nominated to the Seanad and, if elected Senator, he is debarred from membership of the NIEC. Surely the Government and the Cabinet appreciate, having considered this at length, that in effect the Minister is saying to Congress that Senator Fintan Kennedy cannot be nominated to the NIEC and that——
This is a very long speech, Deputy.
——all trade unionists must resign their seats in the Seanad in order to ever again serve on the NIEC? I have been trying to explain to the Minister——
The Deputy may not continue making a speech.
——that what is suggested is entirely undemocratic and rather stupid and should not be allowed by the Cabinet.
I am not suggesting what Deputy Desmond says I am suggesting. There is no purpose in going into that particular point here. It seems to me that there might be some point if there were some further proposals. If ICTU want to meet me I will be quite happy to meet them and to talk to them. As I have already indicated, all the other parties concerned had agreed to attend a meeting but the Congress decided that it could not attend it.
Were there preconditions?
No. There was nothing further I could do in view of the fact that they took that line. If they are interested in a further meeting with me or with the other parties I would be happy to meet them, with no preconditions at all.
The Director-General of the Federation of Employers normally would be a member of the NIEC representing the Federation of Employers. The Minister is saying to them that they will never be permitted to nominate the Director General of their body to the Seanad. If it ever happened that he was elected a Senator he would have to resign from the body which would be making the nomination.
That is not correct. As I have pointed out before, the other parties concerned, having accepted the very kind of proposition which the Deputy is talking about, were prepared to accept this situation. There is not much to be gained by our going into the merits and demerits of the point here. As I have indicated, without the participation of congress in the formation of this council it is not a proposition. Therefore, the problem is to have a situation in which congress feel that they can participate. I have indicated that if any useful purpose can be served by meeting me I would be happy to meet them and to discuss the matter.