Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 4 May 1972

Vol. 260 No. 11

Inter-Party Committee on the Implications of Irish Unity.

The Taoiseach

The terms of reference of the inter-Party Committee on the implications of Irish unity have been agreed by the leaders of the three main parties in this House. They are as follows:

With a view to contributing to a peaceful settlement of the Northern Ireland situation it has been agreed to set up an inter-party Committee to establish the common ground between the parties represented on the committee on the constitutional, legal, economic, cultural, social and other relevant implications of a united Ireland and to make recommendations as to the steps now required to create conditions conducive to a united Ireland.

The following are the names of the members nominated by the party leaders to constitute the committee:

Representing Fianna Fáil:

Deputy Michael O'Kennedy, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education,

Deputy Patrick Smith,

Deputy Vivion de Valera,

Deputy Frank Carter.

Representing Fine Gael:

Deputy Thomas F. O'Higgins,

Deputy Richie Ryan,

Deputy Patrick Harte.

Representing Labour:

Deputy James Tully,

Deputy Conor Cruise-O'Brien.

It has been agreed that the chairman will be one of the Fianna Fáil representatives.

The committee are an informal committee consisting of members of this House: they are not a special nor select Dáil Committee. Secretarial services for the committee will be provided by my Department and, in the course of the committee's deliberations, they can call on the assistance of the inter-departmental unit, which acts as a clearing-house for the activities of Departments generally in relation to the North.

The formulation and implementation of policy is the responsibility of the Government. The consideration of legislation is a matter for the Oireachtas. In setting up this committee we are acknowledging that there are difficulties to be resolved in attaining Irish unity and that these require careful study and, above all, a concerted approach by the three major parties. This Government and their predecessors without exception have declared their abhorrence of violence and their opposition to the use of force as a means of achieving Irish unity. This is not just the policy of the Government: it is fully shared by the two main Opposition parties in Dáil Éireann.

The task of the committee will be to identify other areas of the common ground we occupy and to give expression to a common view so that we can all work together constructively to bring our aims to fruition.

So that we might better accomplish that task I expect that the members of the committee will report back to the leaders of the respective parties, to keep them informed and to seek their guidance where necessary.

It is expected that the first meeting of the committee will be convened in a fortnight or so.

Mr. Cosgrave

I understand——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will appreciate that there will be no debate on this announcement by the Taoiseach.

Mr. Cosgrave

I understod it was agreed, under the informal procedure which we have adopted, that a statement could be made by each of the leaders of the Opposition.

The Taoiseach

I thought that was understood. I am sorry if the Ceann Comhairle was not informed.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is agreed then, that the leaders of the two Opposition parties should each make a short statement.

Mr. Cosgrave

This committee have at last been set up. We have been advocating the setting up of this committee for some years and although there has been delay in getting them established their establishment is a welcome development. It provides for a review of the matters referred under the terms of reference. There are a number of matters which this committee can usefully discuss and ultimately, I hope, report on. Under the procedure which is to be adopted, the usual Dáil procedure of a Select Committee does not apply. That may, in certain circumstances, restrict while in other ways it may allow the committee to consult other interests not represented on it.

In reviewing within the terms of reference the proposals outlined, I believe that this committee should embark on their task without any feeling of restriction in any way on their operations. It is our view that the time has come for the introduction of a new Constitution. The old Constitution which has been the subject of some comment in recent years was divisive, and should be buried quietly. Since it was drafted the world has moved forward in many ways. The Charter of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the European Conventions of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms have all come into being. As a State, we have adhered to these organisations and we have operated within their framework for a number of years now. In that connection it is obvious that any document which will be redrafted should take these changes into account.

There are other areas as well as the question of unity in which steps might be taken by this committee to convince those who up to now have refused to accept the inevitability of a united Ireland that we are anxious that they should play a full and effective part. We should consider the whole question of the Seanad: whether it should be abolished, or whether there should be a radical reform in the method of election. Nobody can be satisfied with the present set-up in the Seanad. Without going into detail, it was designed for one purpose, and it does not even serve that purpose. If this committee is to consider the whole question of the unification of the country, the position of institutions like Queen's University in Belfast must be taken into account. We must endeavour to convince the people in the North of Ireland that we are anxious to reconcile the establishment of institutions here to enable them to play a full part, a part in which their rights and their position will be recognised, based on the acceptance by all of allegiance to Ireland.

While there has been verbal approval from the Taoiseach and some of his Ministers for the concept of a peaceful solution to the unification of the country, we must carry conviction to everyone that there can be only one elected authority, that is, the Dáil, and that the Government elected by the Dáil and the institutions established under the authority of the Dáil are the only legitimate institutions. There can be no double thinking about this such as is evidenced from time to time either in comments or in pin-pricks by some representatives of the Government party and other people who have no authority to speak or act for the people throughout the country.

This is not the occasion to speak at length on this matter. It has been the subject of many references over the past few years. We are glad that at last the recommendation we made almost three years ago has now come to fruition in some form, if not in the precise form originally intended. On behalf of this party, I have nominated a formidable, competent and experienced team. I could not do more and I need say no more on that aspect of the matter. I believe that if it is approached in the spirit in which it is established, we can look forward to progress being made by the committee. It would be a mistake to expect too much from it. It would also be unwise not to make a definite attempt to use all our resources here and elsewhere to try to solve this problem which has bedevilled Anglo-Irish relations and caused so much loss of life and suffering. So that we in our time will be worthy of the traditions we have inherited, we must try to secure a lasting peace in which all our people can live together in harmony and in justice.

Mr. Tully

I do not propose to discuss the matters which will be the subject of debate over the coming months as part of the work of the committee. There will be ample time to discuss them. We all have our own views and I am sure they will be fully discussed when we meet to decide what is to be done. There are a couple of very brief points I should like to make.

Having been a member of the last committee on the Constitution, I am particularly anxious to see that we do no have the same exercise as we had before. Having sat for quite a considerable period and discussed matters at great length, we found that the committee was used by the Government as a political device to try to beat us over the head when we had finished. I expect that will not happen again but it did happen the last time and we all have very unhappy memories of what transpired.

Secondly, I am quite sure that the matters which we will be discussing will be discussed in a very frank manner. Any decision reached by the committee will be on something that has been talked about. So far as I know there is no vehicle for making recommendations which would be binding on anybody. I was hoping that this would have been clarified a little more but I suppose at the first meeting of the committee it will be decided on.

Thirdly, I am particularly anxious that the committee will not be used to take this very important question completely off the floor of Dáil Éireann. There is a grave danger that it will be used, or could be used, for that purpose and, if an attempt were made to raise it here you, Sir, would be in the awkward position of having to say: "This matter is being discussed by the committee and, therefore, it cannot be discussed here." We should be very careful not to usurp the authority of Dáil Éireann particularly since we are not a select committee.

I should also be glad to know if there will be a time limit on the deliberations of the committee. The last committee was open ended. It met occasionally over a considerable period and eventually, when it suited the Government, a decision was made that the committee had to be finished within a week. We burned the midnight oil to finish. We then found that the matters we had discussed were completely ignored and something which we had decided against almost unanimously was used by the Government and some people were left with the impression that it was a recommendation by the committee.

I should be glad to have these matters clarified. As I said at the outset, I will not try to discuss what will be discussed by the committee when we meet. Every member of the committee must have his mind clear at the first meeting on what exactly our powers are, what exactly we are trying to do, what the end result is likely to be, and on whether the final decision will be a recommendation which will be discussed in the House or will be decided on by the Government irrespective of the views expressed by the committee. If that is to happen, there is no point in having discussions. I believe that discussion like this can bring results and can deal with matters which possibly could not be dealt with in any other way. I want to be sure that this is the intention.

Reference has been made to the committee having no authority to call people. I do not believe that is terribly important. We can get information. People who do not want to give information would be of very little use to the committee in any case. On the question of whether we should invite people from the North, it is important that we should know the point of view of all those who will be affected ultimately. It must be remembered that, if the Constitution is to be changed, the people in the Twenty-six Counties will be affected also and not only the people in the North. Some people seem to think that we should aim at pleasing a certain section in Northern Ireland only. I believe that we should take account of their views but we must also consider what is best for all the people in the country.

We should know when we start what exactly we are trying to do. I should also like to have some idea whether there is to be a time limit on the deliberations of the committee or whether they will drag on and on until somebody decides: "This is a good time to stop it", and something might happen which would upset completely all the discussion which had taken place.

The Taoiseach

There are three points arising from Deputy Tully's speech. First, there is the question of a time limit. It would be wrong at this stage to impose a time limit on the committee. Secondly—this will answer the first point also—so far as the activities of the committee are concerned I would suggest that the deliberations of the committee, which would then have a life of its own, ought not to be the subject of questions in the House but that the whole subject of the reunification and the Northern Ireland situation should not be ruled out thereby from questions.

Mr. Tully

That is the point I was making.

The Taoiseach

Thirdly, there is the Deputy's reference to the former committee. His reference is timely in that the former committee operated on its own. The other Members of the House knew nothing as to what was happening. Even I, as head of the Government, did not know, although there was a member of the Government on the committee. I have suggested in my statement that there should be repeated references back to the leaders of the parties so that they be kept informed. As is indicated in my statement, the purpose of the committee is to define areas of common ground so that we can move forward from that common ground to the aims that we all share. I would not like to be more specific than that because it would be wrong to bind the committee. As I said yesterday, the committee will consist of mature Deputies who will know how to behave and I am sure they will be anxious to bring their work to an end at the earliest possible moment.

Mr. Tully

There is one question: Can the Taoiseach say whether he considers that, if the committee reach a unanimous recommendation on points, that should be considered to be a good reason why it should be accepted by the Government?

The Taoiseach

Yes. Of course, the reference-back procedure would ensure this.