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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 6 Jul 1972

Vol. 262 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Adjournment Debate: Child Entertainers.

At Question Time I asked the Minister for Justice:

...whether, as a result of a recent court decision involving a five-year-old singer (name supplied), it is now proposed to prosecute in the case of all children under the age prescribed by law who appear on stage or other public places to participate in pantomimes and concerts in Dublin theatres and other similar places of entertainment; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

From the Minister's reply I understand this was a matter entirely for the Garda authorities and did not concern him as Minister for Justice. There appears to be a very high degree of injustice in regard to this boy, Michael Landers. This five-year-old boy is a very talented singer, extremely well-known throughout the country and also extremely well-known on radio and on records and he is very much sought after.

What is his name?

Michael Landers, the five-year-old wonder boy from Kilcullen, County Kildare. I understand that the Minister will have further information if he looks up Parliamentary Question No. 49 on Thursday, 5th August, 1971, at column 3524 of the Official Report, where I raised a question in connection with an engagement in Westport, County Mayo. This boy, and the showband with which he was associated, appeared for an engagement in a hotel. Some difficulty arose in regard to the payment of fees. The hotel owner hesitated in meeting his obligations with the result that the guards were called. An incident followed. At that time I asked the Minister for Justice to hold an inquiry and I understand some type of inquiry was held but that the evidence of eight witnesses, who were available and brought forward by the manager of Michael Landers, was not seriously considered. The result of the showband manager pressing the case in connection with the Westport incident was that it provoked widespread activity by the entire Garda force. I object seriously, now that we have such a wave of crime, a number of unsolved murders and great public uneasiness regarding the implementation of law and order, that the time of the Garda Síochána, from the commissioner down, should be occupied in following a five-year-old boy around the country.

When this boy became associated with a showband his manager got in touch with the Department of Justice and informed them that the showband in question had the named artist appearing on an average of three nights a week. The Department of Justice informed the showband that they could find no law to prevent this boy from appearing. The showband were extremely worried at the time lest they might be breaking the law.

I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but the question is if it is now proposed to prosecute in the case of all children. We are not discussing the specific case mentioned by the Deputy which has been determined by the court. The question is: does the Minister propose to prosecute all other children of the same age?

That is exactly the point and I agree completely with the Chair. Is there to be a law for Michael Landers alone or is the law to be impartially administered to all others in a similar age group? This is a very serious matter because the Garda authorities have gone out of their way to pick on this boy. I feel I am within the Rules of Order in asking the Minister for Justice why has this boy been singled out, apart from other young people who participate in concerts, stage shows or in street shows or in Christmas pantomimes? This boy was picked out. I want to accuse the Minister of saying that the law is not being administered impartially in this case, first, because of the Westport incident and, secondly, because the Garda superintendent in my own area, in reference to an appearance on Sunday, 7th May, 1972, in Abbeyleix, caused the local Macra na Feirme to be informed on that day that unless this boy artiste was taken from the list of artistes in the musical event that was to take place in the hall, the hall committee of Macra na Feirme would be prosecuted under the Prevention of Cruelty to Children Act, 1904.

I should like to hear from the Minister for Justice what authority the Garda authorities had to warn Macra na Feirme in Abbeyleix that if this boy appeared the Macra na Feirme organisation would be prosecuted. This was a form of intimidation. There is no provision under which Macra na Feirme could have been prosecuted in the Cruelty to Children Act, 1904. The Minister must know that. Every Member of this House knows it. It was intimidation to prevent this boy from appearing thus causing considerable embarrassment to his parents and family, damaging him in his career as a singer and record maker, and damaging the reputation of the recording firm that was producing his records for radio purposes. It has been a great worry to his manager, to his parents, friends and admirers. Why is he singled out as Public Enemy No. 1 in the country and why should there be a file in every superintendent's office in this State asking the Garda authorities to look out for a showband with which this five-year-old artiste appears? The same precautions seem to have been taken as would have been taken in the United States against Dillinger during his wild days.

I accuse the Department of Justice of treating this boy in a disgraceful manner. It should be the subject of a serious inquiry. I am not satisfied, more particularly as this showband and this young artiste had just returned from an English tour and, bad and all as the English laws are, the 1904 Act was not rigidly implemented in Britain in so far as his appearances were concerned. It would not have been implemented by any of the Garda superintendents if it were not for the fact that a garda was reported and an inquiry held in Wesport, County Mayo. This has been responsible for it. If we are to have respect for the Garda force there must not be victimisation. This has been a clear case of victimisation.

Now that the 1904 Act has been invoked against Michael Landers does it mean that every other young person appearing in pantomime or shows, in theatres—the Gaiety Theatre or any other—will be forbidden to appear or is the law to be rigidly enforced only against Michael Landers simply because his manager saw fit, in justice and fairness, to ask for an inquiry into the conduct of certain members of the Garda Síochána who, it was felt, were overstepping their duty.

This has caused widespread uneasiness among the general public. One would imagine the Garda authorities have, at present, sufficient matters of great national importance on their hands such as unsolved murders and serious crimes of larceny, theft, treason et cetera to engage their attention instead of devoting all their energies to assembling the highest power at their disposal to trace a five-year-old boy around the country and rake up an Act of Parliament under which he can be prosecuted. This is wrong, unreasonable and very unfair. It is time the Minister for Justice told the Garda authorities to lay-off this five year old boy. There is no sense or reason in it. This five-year-old boy is singing and providing entertainment, amusement, merriment, joy and happiness. He is providing excellent records and a fund of great amusement for music-lovers and song-lovers. The Garda authorities are going in full force to every hall in every part of Ireland in which this showband is billed.

I did not raise this for the purpose of causing embarrassment to the commissioner of the Garda Síochána but I do say that he would be better occupied dealing with serious crime and leaving this boy alone. If the Minister says in his reply that this is a matter which is completely in the hands of the Garda authorities he should intervene and tell them that it is very unfair to dig up a 1904 Act to embarrass the parents of a most promising young boy and to prevent his attendance at functions with the showband with which he is associated. The Minister for Local Government will be replying on behalf of the Minister for Justice. I hope he will make it clear to us that if the Cruelty to Children Act, 1904 is to be invoked in the case of Michael Landers it will be invoked against all other and that he will not be picked out because of the dispute that took place with the Garda authorities in Westport.

The Minister might also bear in mind that the parents of this boy are extremely well-known and popular. He is a member of a most talented and musical family and they are extremely embarrassed about the manner in in which they have been hunted from place to place by the Garda authorities. When the prosecution took place under section 2 of the Prevention of Cruelty to Children Act, 1904, recently the most amusing thing was that the function which the boy was attending was being held for the purpose of raising funds for the prevention of cruelty to children. Despite that the gardaí took legal action. It is most unreasonable that the commissioner of the Garda should circulate a memo to certain Garda stations. I know one was circulated to the superintendent in Castlebar, County Mayo. There was a query raised in it which I quoted at Question Time.

A letter was sent from the commissioner's office to the superintendent in Castlebar. The Garda authorities in Dublin wrote that the writer noted from the files relating to the manager of this showband that the showband in question had a five-year-old singer. The commissioner asked: "Do you think we have a case here?" They were looking for a case. They were trying to bolster up a case against a five-year-old boy. The Garda should not be asked to waste their time in this way. Their job is—and they are highly respected for it—to safeguard life and property. They should not have to waste time answering memos and watching newspapers to see if Michael Landers is appearing in some district.

The Garda should carry out their duties impartially and there is nothing impartial about this. Why should this boy be singled out? It is wrong, unfair, unjust and unreasonable. The Minister should take the necessary steps with the Garda authorities to see to it that serious embarrassment is not caused to this little boy, to his parents, his manager and others. I hope the Minister will investigate this matter and consult with the Garda authorities to find why the Garda stations throughout the country have been alterted to watch out for a five-year-old boy. One would imagine that he was one of the most outrageous criminals this country has ever known. I am sure any broad-minded man would agree that it is wrong to have files in every Garda station in the country on a five-year-old boy because of his appearance at a musical event to sing a song. May we take it that from now on, since a court decision has been given in Bagnelstown, County Carlow, in relation to Michael Landers, that similar action will be taken in the case of all pantomimes and concerts?

I am not too sure why Deputy Flanagan was so anxious to bring this matter up on the Adjournment today, since it was known in the House that the Minister for Justice is indisposed.

I am sorry to hear that.

He was not here today to answer this question tabled by Deputy Flanagan, and it was answered on the Minister's behalf by the Minister for Finance. I got no notice that this matter was coming up but I can assure the Deputy that all he said will be brought to the notice of the Minister for Justice. At the same time, following on what the Deputy said, I should like to put on the record again the reply which the Minister for Finance gave today on behalf of the Minister for Justice. The reply reads:

As I have previously explained to the House on many occasions, the institution of criminal proceedings is a matter for the Garda Síochána acting where necessary in consultation with or on the directions of the law officers, and I have no responsibility in the matter.

The Deputy can be absolutely assured that the gardaí got no direction from either the Minister or the Department to prosecute this boy. Indeed, it would have been quite improper for the Department or the Minister to give such a direction. The gardaí sought the directions of the law officers and they acted on the directions they got and, from what I know of the case, and from what Deputy Flanagan has said I do not think the gardaí have any apology to make. Obviously there is a great difference between a young child singing in a commercial dance band, in the atmosphere of a dancehall, at a very late hour, and the appearance of children in pantomime or in a performance on a stage or in a theatre; their appearance on the stage is on a noncommercial or amateur basis, while this boy appeared professionally. I understand he was advertised as Michael Landers. the five-year-old wonder boy, and his band. I do not think I need say any more. I assure Deputy Flanagan that what he has said will be brought to the attention of the Minister for Justice.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.15 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 11th July, 1972.

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