Vol. 263 No. 3
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement with regard to the recently published Green Paper on the political future of Northern Ireland; and if any of its recommendations are in line with official Government policy on the future of Northern Ireland.
4.
asked the Taoiseach the Government's attitude to the recent Green Paper issued by the British Government in respect of Northern Ireland.
5.
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement in connection with the Green Paper relating to Northern Ireland.
6.
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the recently published Green Paper and the action the Government intends taking on the matter.
8.
asked the Taoiseach if he will arrange to have copies of the British Government Green Paper based on the Darlington Conference circulated to Members having regard to their interest in a solution to the Northern problem; and, if not, if he will arrange to have copies available on request.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take together Questions Nos. 3 to 6 and No. 8 which relate to the Green Paper on the North of Ireland published by the British Government on 30th October. I have arranged to have copies of the Green Paper placed in the Library.
On several occasions recently, I expressed the hope that this Green Paper would not be long delayed. I did so because I believe that it is to no one's benefit to allow the present situation in Northern Ireland to drift.
The Green Paper has now appeared. In a preliminary comment on the day of issue I said that it was a useful contribution in the development of political thinking and that as a paper for discussion it deserved very careful consideration.
The Green Paper is not a solution; and it is not a plan for a settlement. But it does outline some of the dimensions of a solution. It offers opportunities for further progress; and it is important that we do not let such opportunities slip.
I have said recently elsewhere that we live today in this island in a situation which we have inherited and which has developed to a stage of serious crisis. It is up to us to meet our responsibilities and to work to resolve that situation.
In broad terms, I believe, as I have frequently stated, that any settlement which is to work must be found in an Irish context; that it must be achieved peacefully; and that, because of this, it must be achieved politically. I do not put forward these views as political demands by the Government. I see them rather as requirements which the facts of the situation itself have set.
What we are saying in this regard— and I would hope that our voice on this can be clearly heard and understood—is that all of us who live in Ireland today must share this island. We cannot do so on a basis of dominance or compulsion; and a separation based on the fears of another era is now seen clearly not to be feasible.
Seeing this clearly now, we must— all of us—accept our responsibilities and we must begin working towards an accommodation which will bring reconciliation and peace to the island. We have no other real choice. But we have—all of us—real opportunities once we face realities.
The structures that existed hitherto in the North of Ireland did not encourage reconciliation or open up such opportunities. This is now recognised and accepted. But an absence of structures, and the general feeling of uncertainty and doubt as to the future to which this gives rise, can also make reconciliation difficult.
Steps must now be taken therefore to set up the right institutions. To be "right", they must have real possibilities for growth towards reconciliation and accommodation. I say growth, because I believe that it is preferable for all of us to think in terms of organic growth rather than in terms of rigid frameworks. In speaking of growth we must set no absolutes; and we must allow for development. If steps are taken now on these lines—which respond to what I believe to be the requirements of the situation—it would be in the interest of all of us, not only to accept, but to support, such institutions and to encourage them to grow and develop.
In the North new institutions must be widely acceptable if they are to work; and they must guarantee the rights and identity of the minority— not only socially and economically, but politically as well.
But the structures which are now to be built must also encourage, as an organic growth, a process of reconciliation in the island as a whole; and unless they do, they cannot bring permanent reconciliation in the North. The Green Paper seems to allow for the possibility of some institutional arrangements of this kind; and in so far as it does it calls for a response from us.
For our part, we in the Government are prepared to make such a response. We are committed to work for reconciliation; we are prepared to enter into negotiations with the British Government, and into discussions with representatives of all political parties in the North, which will take account, in addition to the Green Paper, of the statements of policy of both Governments.
We are prepared to consider seriously the working out of suitable institutions. But to be of value the institutions must not be either empty of substance or rigid in form; they must have real and serious functions; and they must have in them the possibility of organic growth and development.
Finally I wish to say that having at this time a simple plebiscite in the North about the Border, of which the result is a foregone conclusion in present circumstances, would introduce a new element of rigidity in a situation which is otherwise evolving. It would contribute nothing to progress in the general sense contemplated in the Green Paper and would inevitably be provocative to some. I would hope that, on reflection, those who feel that they must have a plebiscite would, in determining its timing and content, so arrange it so as to afford some possibility of making a constructive contribution towards shaping the future rather than confirming the sterile rigidities of the past which have left us with the present unhappy situation.
Would the Taoiseach, in view of the possibilities which he has referred to and which are recognised as being in the Green Paper, make it clear to the British Government that it would be desirable to hold discussions on the content of the Green Paper and at the same time indicate to them, as he has mentioned now, that the form and content of the proposed plebiscite, which was announced yesterday, is not a helpful contribution?
I can say that I have already done what the Deputy suggests in the latter part of his supplementary. So far as the first part of his supplementary is concerned, I think it is evident in the reply I have just read that I would welcome these discussions. In fact, I would put them on the level of negotiations.
Would the Taoiseach consider providing Government time for a debate on the Green Paper or, alternatively, would he consider setting up an all party committee to examine all aspects of it? He will agree that Mr. Whitelaw suggested that there be a very close study of the Green Paper. In those circumstances would he not consider either of those alternatives?
I have not my mind closed to a debate on the Green Paper. I think it is not unreasonable. We will see later on if we can find time for it.
What serious objection could the Taoiseach have to ordering a number of copies of the Green Paper so that they may be readily available for Deputies who may want to give it serious thought and study, not alone in the Library of this House but in the constituencies? It is a document that has great relevance to this country and I feel Members of this House would like to have a copy readily available for perusal. In view of that would the Taoiseach not consider it desirable, more particularly if he is going to have a debate on the contents of the Green Paper, to have copies made available so that serious thought and study may be given to its contents. It is a reasonable request.
I can do that. It only costs 20p. It will not impose a great obligation, as it costs only 20p.
Would the Taoiseach consider a plebiscite in the Twenty-six Counties as well?
When the Taoiseach speaks about meeting our responsibilities and living on this island together is he aware that the Green Paper also calls for more action against subversives in this country? The Green Paper calls for some show of good faith by Fianna Fáil that they really want a united Ireland and that they do not want a country, North and South, in shambles. Is the Taoiseach further aware that the people of this country are appalled by the fact that members of the Army Council of the IRA can strut around the streets of this city?
The Deputy is enlarging on the question.
They are not being apprehended.
The Deputy is enlarging on the question.
I am entitled to ask this question. The Green Paper asks for some measure of good faith on behalf of the Government of this country. We are discussing the Green Paper.
No, we are not discussing it.
The Green Paper asks that action be taken against those people.
We are not discussing the Green Paper.
Let me take the Taoiseach's own words. When he speaks about meeting our responsibilities——
The Deputy cannot ask this arising out of this question.
I am taking the Taoiseach's own words. When he speaks about meeting our responsibilities, living on this island together and that there should be a response from us all, does he not now realise this his ambivalence, his double talk and his double thinking——
The Deputy is out of order.
There is no order in this country and unless the Government take action we are heading for civil war.
The Deputy is out of order.
The Taoiseach need not talk about living on this side of the Border or on the other side of the Border because there will be no country—it will be in a shambles.
Will the Deputy please resume his seat?
There is such disorder allowed by the Government that it is time the Taoiseach either governed or got out. There will be no country left for any of us if they keep turning a blind eye to arguments put forward.
Will the Deputy please resume his seat? I am calling Deputy O'Connell.
Has the Taoiseach given any further consideration to the possibility of a similar plebiscite in the South?
That matter is being kept under consideration.
Could the Taoiseach say whether the response to the Green Paper on our part to which he referred will include a willingness not merely to tinker with the Constitution but to take the necessary measures to produce a fully nonsectarian Constitution here and whether also this response will include adequate measures to deal with illegal organisations?
This does not arise on the question.
I think it does, with respect.
I wonder if the assurance the Taoiseach has given——
The Leas-Cheann Comhairle says it is not in order so I cannot answer the Deputy's supplementary.
In my question I asked what action the Government intend to take in the matter.
I asked the Taoiseach to explain what would be the response. Is that not a reasonable supplementary?
Could the Taoiseach say in relation to the reply he has given to Deputy O'Connell on the holding of a plebiscite within the Republic whether it will coincide in date with the plebiscite outside the Republic for the unification of the country?
I did not catch the question. Outside what?
In the event of the Taoiseach deciding to hold a plebiscite within the Republic, will consideration be given to holding it on the same day as the plebiscite is being held outside the Republic, and acted upon, because there is no use in having one plebiscite one day and another plebiscite another day? We want to show to the whole world that we are all Irishmen.
We are not debating this matter. This is Question Time.
My reply to Deputy O'Connell covers that question.
Could the Taoiseach say if it is proposed to have a debate on the Green Paper before the plebiscite in Northern Ireland?
Well, we will see. I do not know when the plebiscite will be.
The Taoiseach has referred to the fact that the price of the Green Paper is 20p. Could he say, if a Deputy wants a copy, whether it is to him as Taoiseach or to Mr. Whitelaw he should send the 20p?
I said that it would be easy to supply all Deputies—it will not cost much.
Will the Taoiseach see to it that copies of future documents of this kind are readily and promptly available in the Library and that whenever any White Paper is published, it will be available in the Library simultaneously with publication and will he make arrangements with the British authorities accordingly to ensure that we will not have to wait? The Taoiseach will appreciate that people are asked to comment on documents which they have not seen and there is a responsibility to ensure that they are available here.
It is not in our hands. As the Deputy is aware, the document became available on the morning of Monday.
Did the Taoiseach not seek from the British authorities that the documents be released here simultaneously to enable intelligent comment to take place?
It is a separate question.
I will see if it can be done in future.
7.
asked the Taoiseach, following the publication of the Green Paper containing recommendations for the future of Northern Ireland, if he will seek a meeting with Mr. Heath as soon as possible with a view to discussing the implications of the proposals as they apply to the Republic.
No date has been fixed for a further meeting between Mr. Heath and myself.
9.
asked the Taoiseach whether any prior notification was conveyed to the Government that it was intended to postpone the local elections in Northern Ireland; and, if so, whether approval was asked for or given.
It would not be in accordance with practice to give details of inter-Governmental exchanges of this kind.
