When I reported progress I was speaking about the structure of the local post offices and what could be done to brighten their image. In many rural and urban areas, the post office is the focal centre for the disbursement of many of our social services. Therefore, many of our old people use the post office to draw their pensions or to get information. Too many small post offices have few amenities for old people. While the Minister may not have direct control of them, since some of them are shops as well as post offices, I would suggest that he should use his influence with the holders of these post offices to get them to make them more attractive for the old people who go in there to draw their pensions. They could be brightened by the use of some paint and paper, and a few seats should be provided for the older people so that they would not have to stand in a queue for any length of time while awaiting their turn.
I also mentioned earlier that a sorting office in my own area, in Ballsbridge, badly needs replacement. I know the plans are almost finalised but I would ask the Minister to give the necessary push to have this 19th century building replaced by a modern one. After all, employees must work there for many hours each day.
I have listened to most of the discussion on the EEC Bill and I am wondering, in this context, if RTE should not have a more international approach. It is true that by comparison with some of the European broadcasting giants RTE are very small. However, they now have a great opportunity to project Irish culture and Irish social life into the new European scene. I am thinking on the lines of expanding the Eurovision contest.
Speaking of RTE I should like particularly to pay a tribute to their political commentators, two of whom we know especially in this House. They behave in a most responsible way in bringing to the Irish public the events that occur here. We must give them the highest credit for their standards of professionalism and responsibility in their contributions to RTE's news bulletins, particularly in these days when biased reporting might inflame an already dangerous situation. Of course RTE reporters must travel to the North—they have been doing so during the past four years—and consequently their jobs are much more onerous. Therefore, as I have said, great credit is due to them.
RTE also have a role in the education sphere. I wonder if in this context they should not devote more time to the university level. I am thinking on the lines of a university of the air. I wonder if RTE have examined this question vis-à-vis other stations.
I suggest that more time and money should be devoted to a project of this kind, particularly in this country where we must accept that thousands of our people, because they live in remote areas as distinct from any means disability, cannot go to universities. Then, of course, people who are physically disabled would benefit as well. That is why I suggest that in this country particularly the national broadcasting service should cater more for university programmes.
All of us can commend the authority for Telefís Scoile, but Telefís Scoile caters entirely for secondary schools. I have suggested that the authority might consider programmes at university level but I should like also to see serious thought given to providing programmes for primary schools, even if it were only for one or two hours per week. There are numerous film services available and we hear now and again that canned programmes are cheaper than live ones. At the moment the curriculum for primary schools is very heavy, so a television programme for primary schools might, incidentally, take a lot of weight from overworked teachers in those schools.
I know the cost of implementing my suggestion would be great but there is a duty on RTE, as a national service, not alone to provide entertainment but to cater for the educational needs of the community.
I agree with what other speakers have said in regard to the authority's attitude to Irish language programmes. Mainly on such programmes there are panels of people who are fluent in the language—fluency seems to be the test for inclusion in such panels. I think that it would provide more encouragement to the people who are anxious and willing to learn the language if people other than those whom I would call the élite from the point of view of Irish, were given a chance. I think it is wrong to reserve a place in our national broadcasting system to this small section of the Irish speaking community. At the moment, because of the academic content of Irish programmes, viewers who are not so well versed in the language but who are trying to improve switch off. RTE should do more to try to encourage people who are seriously interested in the language. For an English language programme they do not always bring on people who have perfect English so why should they debar people from taking part in Irish speaking programmes because they are not fluent? RTE can play a much bigger part in the educational field, particularly in the matter of programmes in Irish, if they bring on men and women from non-Gaeltacht areas or those who have had to learn Irish in their spare time. There will be no extra cost involved. It is well worth trying and RTE should be urged to adopt the policy of bringing on people who, if it gets too difficult, will break into English but who will be trying all the time not to do that. This will encourage the home viewer to speak Irish.
I am disappointed by the religious programmes on RTE. The big mistake is often made that there is a half-hour programme on some very serious theological aspect. People are brought on who know their subject but it should be remembered that many of the viewers are not theologians but people of simple faith. This does not mean that they are of weak faith. Looking at those programmes I can say for myself that at times I am confused. The fault may not lie with the people who appear on these programmes; it may lie in the fact that they are given such a short time to expand on their viewpoint. The interviewer uses some of the time so the actual time available to the man or woman who is the main speaker is very short indeed. Nine times out of ten the interviewer has to say: "I am sorry, we have no more time for that." We are very often left with very important questions hanging in mid-air. We do not know what the speaker would have said had he been given an hour. While we try to attune ourselves to changes in these days of change I think it is asking far too much to expect that in a half-hour programme questions of faith and morals or perhaps some dogma, should be discussed. The person at home has not, perhaps, been able to give his full attention to the programme because of distractions but even if he has, after some programmes he is confused by the utterances of the speaker. That may not be the fault of the speaker. He or she, knowing the subject so well, may assume that we all know it equally well, but whoever organises the programme might try not to talk down to the people but to speak in language that we understand.
The "Outlook" programme is short and the speaker generally has a nice little pithy talk to which one likes to listen. The vast majority of speakers on "Outlook" are good. One can see the results of the training these men have got. It has made them much better speakers on television. I am sure that programme has a large audience. It is a very simple little programme but some of the other religious programmes are above some of our heads at least. The language should either be simplified or the people taking part in them should be given more time to explain their views. It is very necessary today, when attacks come from many sides on things which people hold dear, that these programmes should attune themselves to the thinking not of the intellectual members of our society but to the thinking of members of our society who want to learn and may not have the intellectual capacity to follow the sometimes pedantic utterances on these programmes. The RTE Authority do their best. Some brilliant people have appeared on these programmes but it may well be that they are not speaking to the people who want to hear and to follow each argument on religious matters. I have at times been confused.
One could fault the RTE Authority for many of their productions. Each year I mention some of the programmes which give offence. As RTE mature I hope this will not continue and that we will see a greater degree of maturity on all programmes. I should like to say, by way of criticism, that on some programmes they are inclined to bring on people not because they have got a message or are particularly good at their subject but because of the very fact that they are "way out," different to the majority. They are brought on to say things which may shock people. The great majority of our people are sometimes shocked and hurt. Parents complain that if their children are looking at a programme which may be harmless and, indeed, may be a good programme for adults, something may happen in it which will hurt the parents who are thinking of their children. It may not be meant to be in bad taste but it can be in bad taste. The RTE Authority and the producers should keep in mind the fact that all the people are not intellectuals. We are not all experts on drama or culture of any kind. Programmes must be geared to educate the people but the mass of the people do not want the kind of avant garde philosophy of some of the programmes.
The film about TV spongers shown on RTE is a bit offensive. You see an inspector going to a person's door and when the woman opens it she is asked if she has got a licence. I usually feel sympathy for that person when she says she has not got a licence. She may not have the money to pay the licence fee. I know those people may be actors but I always feel pity for them. Some other way should be found to ensure that licences are paid. Somebody should examine this matter and, perhaps, find a better solution than showing a film about TV spongers.
When one buys a motor car one has to tax and insure it. Perhaps we could adopt the same procedure in relation to TV licences. When a person owns a motor car a garda can see the tax disc on the windscreen. When a person buys a television set it could be registered and every year a reminder could be sent out that a new licence was necessary. Commercial concerns have to deal with bad debt problems but they cannot spend large sums of money trying to recover them. They may appoint special people to do this work or send out solicitor's letters.
We must remember that the great majority of people pay their television licences every year and, perhaps, those who do not pay have not got the money for the licences. If we must have some scheme to encourage people to pay their licences we should try to do it in better taste than the TV spongers film. I do not know how much money RTE loses on account of the people who do not pay their licences. The Department should be able to think up some satisfactory scheme to ensure that licences are paid. The people who pay their licences should not have to watch a film in relation to TV spongers.
The Department of Posts and Telegraphs give a good return to the public. The Post Office affects the lives of everybody in the country in some way. I hope the Minister will look at the whole structure of his Department and try to shed some of the responsibilities he is carrying at the moment. I suggest that the Post Office could be run as a semi-State concern like Aer Lingus or some of the other State-sponsored bodies. The Minister might take the savings section away from the Department and let that be run by another State-sponsored body.
Most speakers conclude their remarks on this Estimate by referring to the waiting list for telephones. When people want telephones they often approach Deputies and I must say on any occasion when I approached the Minister in this regard if it was possible something was done. It is one of the penalties of our growing affluence that there is such a demand for telephones. Ten years ago we had not half the number of telephones we have today and the number of applications is increasing. We will probably see the day when every house will have a telephone. That cannot be done overnight and there is bound to be a queue. The Department are doing their best to try to overcome the problem in this regard. I believe the priority in the Department in regard to the allocation of telephones is a fair one. If the Minister can increase the installation rate by, say, 10 per cent a year it would go a long way towards shortening the waiting list for telephones.
The Post Office is going through a difficult time but I believe it is doing a good job. I hope that next year the waiting list for telephones will have been reduced considerably. I also hope that some of the other matters I mentioned this evening will have been dealt with. I understand that Deputy Thornley, who is the Labour Party spokesman on Posts and Telegraphs is ill and I take this opportunity of wishing him well.