asked the Minister for Local Government if he will make a statement concerning the proposed dumping of poisonous chemical waste off the coast of Ireland by a Danish firm.
Private Notice Questions. - Dumping of Waste Materials.
asked the Minister for Local Government the action, if any, he has taken to ensure that chemicals being dumped at sea by a Danish firm will not pollute or destroy living matter within the Irish Sea fisheries limits; and if he will make a general statement in the matter.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he will make a statement with regard to the proposed dumping of deleterious matter 200 miles off the Irish coast by a Danish pharmaceutical firm; and if he is satisfied that this action will not have any harmful effect on the coastal waters of this country.
I am afraid I got no notice of these questions.
The Minister's statement was in the papers yesterday.
I understand that the questions were addressed by somebody to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and perhaps the Minister standing in for him might be able to give the replies.
I can help the Minister. My question was addressed to the Minister for Local Government.
May I ask the Minister for a statement from his knowledge of the situation?
The Minister for Local Government announced through the medium of the Press that he had made approaches to a member of the Danish Government on this matter.
Yes, but when he was Taoiseach the Deputy did not have to answer for everything in this House unless a question was put to him.
It has been put.
No question was given by the officials to me and therefore if the question was given to somebody else perhaps the Minister for Finance might be able to answer.
The Minister for Finance has been on his feet for some time.
A Cheann Comhairle, I understand that your office referred the matter to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and, in his absence, I have been asked to deal with it. The following is the reply.
Why did you not say that at first?
Because they were called out to the Minister for Local Government.
(Interruptions.)
Order. I am sure Deputies want to hear the answer.
The purpose of a question is to obtain knowledge.
Do not give us a lecture; give us the answer.
Following a report that the Danish authorities proposed to dump waste material in the Atlantic Ocean the Ambassador in Copenhagen was immediately instructed to obtain full information about the operation from the Danish Foreign Ministry. The Ambassador raised the matter with the Danish Foreign Ministry on Wednesday, 18th July. The Minister for Local Government, who was attending an EEC Environment Council Meeting, raised the matter with Mr. Kampmann, the Danish Minister of Works and Protection of the Environment, on 19th July.
Full details concerning the wastes to be dumped and the dumping site were received from the Danish authorities on 21st July. This information has been studied by experts in the Departments of Agriculture and Fisheries, Health, Local Government and Transport and Power. These experts have concluded that the cargo in question and the conditions applying to its dumping are satisfactory, and that the dumping will not—I repeat "not"—adversely affect Irish fisheries. The dumping is to take place in accordance with the provisions of the Oslo Convention for the Prevention of Marine Pollution by Dumping from Ships and Aircraft.
Is the Minister aware of section 11 (29) (b) of the Report of the Community Environmental Programme which refers to marine pollution and of the fact that the InterGovernmental Maritime Consultative Organisation is meeting this year to draw up regulations to stop such dumping as is proposed here? Is not the dumping of these substances against the spirit of the Community? We still have no guarantee that they are not noxious and that they will not cause pollution or endanger fish life. Is the Minister absolutely satisfied that this will not happen?
Can the Minister say what type of chemical is involved? Is it not clear now that there was collusion between our Government and the Danish Government in relation to the pollution of the sea?
It is reassuring to hear the Minister giving us the opinion of the various experts in the various Departments that the dumping of this material will not cause any illeffects to marine life or to the environment along our coast, but it would be more reassuring if he gave us a more elaborate statement as to the reasons why they came to this conclusion, and if they were able to give us more details as to the materials which it was intended to dump, and their reasons for deciding that these materials would not cause any bad effects to marine life or to the environment.
Is the Minister satisfied that the place of dumping is outside the pull of the Gulf Stream?
I should like the Minister to give us details of the nature of these chemical substances which are being dumped into the sea and why the Danish authorities did not permit them to be dumped off their shores if they were so innocuous and non-toxic?
Would the Minister confirm that the prevailing winds in this area are from the South-West and, therefore, if there is any movement of these materials they must come towards our coast?
Will the dumping be done under any supervision from this country or will there be any international supervision? How are we to know what is being done?
I will ask the Minister to reply and this must be the end of the matter at this juncture.
We have to ask supplementary questions.
We have had a series of supplementary questions. We cannot have a debate. This is still Question Time.
I understand that there are 20 different chemicals involved, most of which are not in any way potentially dangerous. It is important that Members of the House should realise, first of all, that dumping will not take place within any strech of the Gulf Stream which reaches our shores. Dumping will take place in waters which are much closer to France and Spain than to Ireland. The allegation that there has been collusion between the Danish and the Irish Governments to pollute the sea is totally without foundation and is a typically irresponsible remark by the Deputy who made it.
I plead guilty and I stick to it.
The anxiety of the Government is to ensure that in no way are the interests of Irish fishermen or, indeed, of the Irish environment jeopardised by what is about to take place. With regard to the possibility of pollution, it should be emphasised that the dumping is of such a nature as to ensure that the total cargo will quickly sink to the bottom of the sea and the possibility of its ever reaching Irish shores is negligible. In fact on the best advice available it is non-existent. The ocean depth at the point where the deposit is to take place is between 12,000 and 15,000 feet.
What is wrong with the North Sea then? Are not Copenhagen and Denmark virtually surrounded by water as we are?
I think, Sir, as you have envisaged, that at this stage a lecture in physical geography would probably prolong the affairs of the House.
Deputy O'Connell's question is relevant.
The depth of the North Sea contiguous to Copenhagen is not as great as the depth of the Atlantic Ocean in the Bay of Biscay.
(Interruptions.)