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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 12 Feb 1974

Vol. 270 No. 3

Transport Bill, 1974: Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The purpose of the Bill is to extend CIE's long-term borrowing powers for capital purposes and also to increase the limit on the board's temporary borrowing powers.

Before dealing with the Bill itself I propose to review briefly the position of CIE in recent years. As Deputies are aware, there has been a serious deterioration in CIE's financial position since 1969 when the amount of the board's statutory grant was fixed at £2.65 million per annum. The board's losses have increased from over £3 million in 1969-70 to over £8 million in 1972-73 and there will be a further substantial increase in the current financial year. The increased losses have been incurred mainly on the railway but the position has been aggravated by a decline into a loss-making situation of hitherto profitable road services. Increases in rates and fares sought by the board in 1972 were postponed for almost a year pending completion of an investigation by the National Prices Commission and this, of course, has contributed significantly to the losses.

The investigations carried out by McKinsey & Co. in 1971 showed that CIE's increasing losses were due mainly to inflation and to growing competition from private transport. The consultants carried out a broad cost/benefit analysis of railway operations and found that even when given credit for all the social benefits which it could be deemed to render to the community, the railway still incurred substantial losses and, leaving aside transitional costs, could be replaced more economically by an all road system. However, the inclusion of unavoidable transitional costs, mainly costs of redundancy, altered the position and the consultants found that, from a community standpoint, the best course of action was to retain the railway but to selectively modify and develop it so as to bring social costs and benefits more closely into line.

CIE, on the basis of the general recommendations of the consultants, have been developing specific plans for the rationalisation of mainline railway operations and improvements in operating practices which will involve, inter alia, increased capital investment in modernising terminals, rolling stock, track and signalling. These plans are at present under examination and I hope to secure the early approval of the Government for CIE to proceed on the lines proposed. Because the costs of the railway consist so largely of labour costs any financial improvement will involve some redundancy but it is envisaged that this can largely be met by natural wastage. The whole plan will in any case be discussed by CIE with the trade unions.

By the use of imaginative marketing and promotional campaigns CIE have achieved a considerable increase in the number of passengers travelling by rail. Almost 12 million were carried in 1972-73 which represents an increase of 8 per cent over 1971-72, which itself had shown an increase of 6½ per cent over the previous year. The introduction of the new air-conditioned super trains which brought a new standard of passenger comfort, speed and convenience was also a contributory factor. Dublin suburban commuter rail traffic also continued to expand in 1972-73 showing a growth of 7½ per cent on the previous year. New push/pull train units were introduced to improve these services. tons was marginally higher in 1972-73 than in the previous year. The liner train concept was further developed and the demand for unit load container conveyance and for further extensions of pallets continued to grow.

There was also an expansion in CIE's road services. Dublin city buses carried 210 million passengers in 1972-73, an increase of 9.5 million on the previous year. Sixty-two million passengers were carried on the board's provincial long distance and city bus services, excluding special school services, in 1972-73, an increase of two million over the previous year. A major bus passenger survey has recently been carried out by CIE and Rail freight tonnage at 3.65 million the information obtained will form the basis of a new overall provincial bus policy plan which is being formulated. In the road freight section the total tonnage carried in 1972-73 was 5.7 million tons which was 2 per cent higher than in the previous year. CIE's shipping and air freight services, which are conducted through Irish Ferryways and Aerlod Teoranta, showed larger turnover and increased profitability in spite of the severe competition in sea and air freight.

Unfortunately, as I have already indicated, these improvements have not been sufficient to counteract the prevailing economic forces and the board's deficits still continue to grow. The railway deficit in 1972-73 was £7.695 million, an increase of £980,000 on the deficit in 1971-72. Notwithstanding the increase in the number of passengers carried, a loss of £360,000 was incurred on the Dublin city bus services compared with a profit of £185,000 in 1971-72. The provincial bus services showed a decline in profits from £550,000 in 1971-72 to £319,000 in 1972-73. Road freight services, however, showed a small profit of £22,000 compared with a loss of £134,000 in 1971-72.

The existing blanket type subvention paid to CIE will no longer be appropriate under EEC regulations and proposals for a new subvention structure to meet EEC requirements are at present nearing completion.

The immediate need for the present Bill is to enable CIE to take up a loan of £4 million which has been approved by the European Investment Bank for a term of 20 years at a proposed rate of interest of 8¾ per cent. At present CIE's long-term capital borrowing powers are confined to borrowing from the Minister for Finance and it is necessary, therefore, to extend these powers so as to enable the board to take up the proposed loan from the EIB and also to avail of any other sources of finance which might be found attractive. It is expected, however, that the Exchequer will still remain the main source of loan finance for CIE's capital expenditure. Borrowing from sources other than the Exchequer will be subject to my prior consent and the approval of the Minister for Finance, who will be empowered to guarantee such borrowings.

The EIB loan is related to the board's railway investment programme and will contribute in particular to improvements in passenger train services, wagon load freight services, terminal facilities and the signalling system. These improvements will enable the provision of faster and more frequent passenger trains with modern carriages and the concentration of freight traffic on fully fitted block trains. We would hope that these measures will lead to a significant increase in traffic by rail. By granting the loan of £4 million, the European Investment Bank is helping the railway to remain an essential part of Ireland's transport system and to play its part in the progress of the Irish economy.

The limit on the board's capital borrowing powers and on Exchequer capital advances to CIE was increased from £6 million to £17 million under the Transport Act, 1969. The £17 million provision is now almost exhausted and it is proposed to extend the limit to £55 million, that is, an increase of £38 million. This sum, together with the board's depreciation provisions, will be available to meet future capital expenditure by the board. It will enable the board to continue with their policy of modernising their services and improving standards. In addition to the proposals already mentioned for modernising mainline railway operations, CIE are also preparing plans for the improvement of the Dublin rail commuter services. As Deputies are aware, the Government recently approved in principle of the development of these services to play the maximum role possible in helping to relieve the city's present congestion problems.

Provision is also being made in the Bill for an increase from £2 million to £5 million in CIE's temporary borrowing powers. The existing limit of £2 million was fixed in 1958 and is now an inadequate safeguard against possible short-term cash difficulties. This has been evident in recent years when Supplementary Estimates have had to be introduced at short notice to ensure that the board would have sufficient cash to meet their current requirements.

The contract for the European Investment Bank loan cannot be concluded pending the enactment of legislation, as provided for in this Bill, to extend the scope of CIE's borrowing powers. The next meeting of the Board of the European Investment Bank will take place on 19th February and, to avoid the possibility of the interest rate on the proposed loan being increased, the intention is that, provided the Bill has been enacted, the contract will be concluded by that date.

I would, therefore, greatly appreciate it if the House would agree to give a quick passage to the Bill. There will be an opportunity for a further discussion on CIE on the occasion of the debate on my Department's Estimates.

I commend the Bill to the House.

We will co-operate with the Minister by giving this Bill a quick passage through the House. It must be admitted that the interest rate he has mentioned seems very attractive. We feel it our duty to give CIE every facility to avail of this very good interest rate and we will not in any way jeopardise their signing of the contract before the 19th February. I say this to assure the Minister of our co-operation. There will be ample time for us to debate CIE and all other matters relating to the Minister's Department later on.

I notice from Bord Fáilte brochures that if one lands at Dublin with Aer Lingus one can travel to any part of Ireland and back for a single fare. This is an admirable thing and undoubtedly it will help to attract tourists from Britain, tourists whom we will welcome with open arms. In order to do this there must be some form of subsidy involved. Perhaps the Minister would recommend to CIE that in view of present oil prices and their effect on our overall economic situation—our balance of payments position will undoubtedly disimprove greatly—the question of doing something about the cost of freight in regard to agriculture should be considered. Agriculture is undoubtedly our mainstay in fighting our balance of payments deficit. There has been a tremendous increase in the price of fertilisers, feeding stuffs et cetera. The Minister might consider some form of subsidy of all agricultural freight rates so as to make our agricultural industry more competitive for the coming year and so improve our balance of payments.

Perhaps the Minister could tell us when this loan was negotiated. If it was negotiated during the last session perhaps his Bill could have been before the House in the last session.

In December.

There are many things mentioned in the Minister's brief for which CIE deserve a word of praise. The Minister said:

By use of imaginative marketing and promotional campaigns CIE have achieved a considerable increase in the number of passengers travelling by rail.

It is wonderful to be able to say some good things about CIE because they have been the butt of criticism for a long time. It is good to see that they are successful in some fields at least. In other fields they are not successful and it is not always the fault of CIE. CIE seem to be a very necessary aspect of our economic structure and of our social life in view of the large number of employees involved. I hope they can come up with imaginative ideas in other fields of activity. I should like to assure the Minister of a quick passage for this Bill in order to facilitate this very attractive loan which CIE have succeeded in negotiating.

I should like to welcome this Bill as a step forward in endeavouring to make CIE more efficient. I note from the Minister's speech that the emphasis is on rail transport. This is symptomatic, perhaps, of the appalling tragedies that are happening on our roads. Our roads are choked with motor cars and continental lorries and they are not geared to this kind of traffic. As a result we have tragedies every week in our city and throughout the country. I hope that the Minister will cause an investigation to be held, in association with the Minister for Local Government, into those appalling tragedies which have become an accepted, normal feature of national life.

According to the Minister's brief a development of our rail system is envisaged. Our rail system served the country very well in the past. We can see with hindsight that mistakes were made in closing certain branch lines in the country and particularly in Dublin where suburban areas are now being developed. I hope that with the co-operation of CIE and the other authorities responsible for making provision for people who have to travel that we will see an improvement in the future.

I should like to express the public disappointment with CIE's city bus services. There is a general feeling of dissatisfaction in regard to the Dublin bus service. An investigation should be carried out to improve the lot of those people in the city who have not an alternative means of transport. As one who travels around the city on buses a good deal I am in a position to speak of the defects in the bus system. It may be necessary to carry out some research or investigation into the workings of the bus transport system in Dublin city but it should be borne in mind that this greatly affects those living in outlying areas who are entirely dependent on the bus service. Bus times can be very unreliable.

I should like to thank the Deputies opposite for their courtesy and consideration in getting this Bill through. The time schedule, as the Deputies are aware, is very tight. The Bill must be with the Seanad tomorrow and be signed by the President five days afterwards which will be a couple of hours before the loan can be signed. The loan was negotiated in December and the Bill was introduced on the first sitting day of this session, last Wednesday.

As Deputy Barrett has stated, the rates of interest are very attractive. They may be altered next month and we must remember that the only way they can go is upwards. I hope it will be possible for CIE to conclude this loan and have it available to themselves almost immediately. The morale in CIE, in my view, is improving. The imaginative way in which they sold their rail passenger transport has been very effective. It has not alone been effective in attracting passengers to the train service but it has been effective in improving the image of CIE, a most beneficial effect. One of the greatest effects is the way in which it has raised the morale of those involved in the rail service in CIE. They are now proud to work in the company.

Anybody who travels by CIE appreciates the service, courtesy and efficiency. About a fortnight ago when one of the mainline trains was 1½ hours late there were complaints, an indication of how unusual such a delay is with CIE. If such delays were common CIE would not have received any complaints. A large number of the trains leave on time and arrive on time and are comfortable and clean. The passengers are also able to obtain acceptable food.

I am not sure what Deputy Barrett means when he referred to, "going one way and returning free". This is an ordinary commercial attraction CIE offer and there is no more greater element of subsidy in it than the plastic spoon tied on to a bottle of orange squash on sale in a supermarket. It is an attraction to get people to travel by train. CIE's argument for "going one way and returning free" is that if a person books to travel they will have to send a train to bring that person back and it is in an effort to fill the trains going in both directions that they have introduced this system. It would not be possible under CIE regulations to give a subsidy for the carriage of agricultural produce and it will not be possible in future to give a blanket subsidy to CIE. Each amount of money will have to be justified for specific reasons such as social reasons or reasons of that nature. It will not be possible any more to give a blanket subsidy as we have been doing.

Deputy Barrett also referred to the cost of oil in our balance of payments. This is something which I believe has not yet been appreciated in our country. The change in our standard of living which the cost of oil will bring is not appreciated. Oil doubled in price in November and again at the end of December. Oil now is four times the price it was last October and this is bound to have an effect on our standard of living but it is something which may be helpful to CIE.

However, it means the transferring of a large amount of money, not to entrepreneurs but directly from this country to the Arab nations. It means the transferring of some of our wealth to the countries of the Middle East who are the beneficiaries of this increase. They are the people who are going to get it but we must find some other way, from a balance of payments point of view, of earning money so that this will not be detrimental. In our own personal lives this will cost each of us something extra per annum, whether it is in the price of petrol, the price of heating oil for our houses or the extra cost of manufactured goods.

A discussion on oil is basic to any discussion on the economy at the moment. However, this is a fact we have come to realise. It is the most serious economic fact we have had in 25 years. In fact, the war situation was more easily handled at the time because it was a case of unavailability of goods and they were rationed out the best way possible. This is a different matter; this involves enormous increases in prices which affect everybody in their everyday dealings.

Deputy Timmons mentioned the bus service and road passenger service. I dealt with these matters in my opening address. A survey is being carried out at present on the provincial bus service with a view to reorganising it and selling this service to the general public. I agree with everything the Deputy had to say about the bus service in this city but I do not think CIE can be blamed for it. It strikes me as very odd to see 50 or so cars with one passenger in each at a junction in the city while stuck in the middle of them is a bus that would carry all these motorists home more comfortably. The Minister for Local Government, in conjunction with my Department, is investigating ways of improving the flow of traffic so that buses can be given a free run. Such an improvement would encourage more people to use the bus service.

The cost of private transport may now benefit CIE and attract more people onto the city bus routes. If one can get buses running freely, speedily and cheaply more people will leave their private cars at home; but the more people use their private cars the more difficult it is for the city buses to have a free run through the centre of the city. A lot of thought will have to be given to this problem in Dublin and the other cities. I feel the public will be pleased when they see the plans which CIE have for the future of their organisation in the country.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
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