asked the Minister for Defence the total amount of money due to retired Army personnel residing in the coastguard station houses in Crosshaven, County Cork; and if he will make concessions to these ex-Army members.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Crosshaven Retired Army Personnel.
13.
The total amount of money withheld from former Army personnel who are overholding married quarters in the Coastguard Station houses in Crosshaven, County Cork, is provisionally, £4,884.41. This sum represents the amount of pension accrued since the date of discharge from the Defence Forces in the case of three ex-Army personnel, less overholding charges.
Defence Force Regulations provide for the recovery as a public debt, of charges in respect of the use of quarters, furniture, water, gas and/or electricity by former members of the Permanent Defence Force. While unauthorised possession of quarters is continued, it is not possible to finalise these charges. The Defence Forces (Pensions) Scheme provides for the recovery of such charges from pension and for the withholding of pension until the amount of the deduction is ascertained.
I should perhaps add that one of these overholders was paid his long-service gratuity; another was paid a similar gratuity as well as an advance from his accrued pension, and the third—not entitled to a gratuity—was paid advances from his pension.
Could the Minister tell the House the value of the three houses in question that are being overheld by these people? Is he aware of the critical housing situation in the area? Would he consider selling these houses to the individuals concerned?
As I said in my reply, some of the financial aspects of overholding, such as rent, are measurable; but the sum that cannot be ascertained until the quarters are vacated is that which may be involved by way of damage to the quarters, fittings, furniture and various other matters like that. The amounts withheld are considerable, as has been seen by the total figure, and it would be wrong of me to give the individual amounts. I can tell the Deputy that long service gratuities under the Defence Forces (Pensions) Schemes have been paid, a sum of over £1,000 in one instance and less than £1,000 in another. The third person was not entitled to a gratuity but he received advances on his pension. If the Deputy feels there is an injustice here and he comes to me or writes to me about it, I will do my best to be as fair as possible. To sell houses which are needed by Army personnel is something that is a policy matter and something which I could not accede to. There are only 99 ex-Army soldiers who are overholding.
Would the Minister not consider that at this stage in our development possibly a more humane method of regaining possession of Department of Defence houses which continue to be occupied by soldiers who have retired from the Army should be devised rather than have this withholding of pensions?
I am as sympathetic as the Deputy is, but I am sure he will also agree with me that in the interest of security duties of the Defence Forces it is necessary to keep Army houses that were intended for Army personnel. I would remind him that I have told Deputy Fitzgerald that a gratuity of over £1,000 in one case was paid and not withheld, something less than £1,000 in another case was not withheld, and in respect of the gentleman who was not entitled to any gratuity he had advances of his pension. Again it would be invidious of me to give individual amounts. The Deputy will see that we have been fair.
Does the Minister not think that the system might be changed.
We have been fair.
In view of the fact that over £4,000 has been withheld from these three retired men and also that I understand two houses in the same group of houses are not considered suitable for Garda personnel and they are so far removed from Collins Barracks in Cork, would the Minister not consider selling these houses to the three people concerned and making a suitable deal?
I will certainly consider anything but I have to remind the Deputy that in the interest of security it may be necessary to hold Army houses for Army serving personnel.