asked the Minister for Education if he is aware that the English educational authorities have withdrawn recognition of the higher diploma in education of Trinity College, Dublin, as a qualification to teach at secondary level in the United Kingdom; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Teaching Qualifications.
15.
As from 1st January, 1974, a diploma in teacher-training acceptable to the Department of Education and Science is necessary for recognition as teachers in second-level schools in England and Wales. The higher diploma in education of Trinity College, Dublin is not at present accepted for this purpose. I understand that the authorities of Trinity College have the matter under review.
Would the Minister like to state why the Trinity College diploma was not found acceptable?
Mr. R. Burke
Up to 1st January, 1974, graduates were accepted to teach in post-primary schools in England without a diploma in teacher-training. Therefore, there was never any recognition of TCD's H.Dip.Ed. course because the question never arose. Since the 1st January, 1974, a diploma in teacher-training, acceptable to the Department of Education and Science, London, is necessary in order to be allowed to teach in English post-primary schools. This applies in England and other countries as well as Ireland.
Would the Minister not agree that while the higher diploma in education was not necessary for recognition, nevertheless an extra increment was paid on the Trinity diploma and other diplomas in this country at that time?
Mr. R. Burke
Yes, but we are discussing the question of recognition of the teaching diploma. It is not correct to say there was a withdrawal of recognition.
Would the Minister not agree that the basis for the refusal of recognition is despicable if, as the newspapers and the educational journals reported, the main reason was that neither Trinity College nor the other colleges in this country indulge in block release of teachers for mass teaching during the year rather than individual daily release?
Mr. R. Burke
I do not think it would be in the public interest to discuss the reason for the alleged difficulties in regard to the TCD diploma.
Would the Minister agree that the TCD diploma was the only one refused recognition because it was the only application?
Mr. R. Burke
Yes.
16.
asked the Minister for Education the progress that has been made in the achievement of comparability of European diplomas in education since Ireland's accession to the European Economic Community.
Mr. R. Burke
A meeting of the Council of the European Communities and the Conference of Ministers for Education of the member states of the European Communities was held in Luxembourg on 6th June last.
The Ministers adopted a resolution on the promotion of work relating to the mutual recognition of diplomas, certificates and other evidence of formal qualifications pursuant to Article 57 of the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community. With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, a copy of this resolution is being circulated with the Official Report.
Draft directives in relation to the mutual recognition of doctors' qualifications are under consideration at Council level.
A working party at Council level has been set up to consider the draft directives for architects.
Following is the resolution:
Mutual Recognition of Diplomas (provisional version)
After a detailed discussion, the Council adopted the Resolution on the promotion of work relating to the mutual recognition of diplomas, certificates and other evidence of formal qualifications pursuant to Article 57 of the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community.(*)
The Council of the European Communities,
Having regard to the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community;
Having regard to the proposal from the Commission of 11 March 1974;
Having regard to the Opinion of the European Parliament of 23 April 1974;
Whereas certain principles and guidelines should be laid down for the promotion of work relating to the mutual recognition of diplomas, certificates and other evidence of formal qualifications,
Has Adopted this Resolution:
I. The Council
—acknowledges that Directives on the right of establishment, in particular those concerning the liberal professions, are of importance in connection with education policies;
—emphasises that such Directives should be so drawn up that they do not impede efforts towards educational reform in the Member States of the Community;
—considers it appropriate that educational policies should make a positive contribution to freedom of establishment, in particular with regard to the liberal professions.
*One delegation recorded its provisional agreement.
II. The Council expresses the wish that the further work in the field of the mutual recognition of diplomas, certificates and other evidence of formal qualifications be guided by the endeavour to introduce flexibility and quality. In this connection, the Council agrees with the following guideline:
Given that despite the differences existing between one Member State and another in the courses of training there is in practice broad comparability between the final qualifications giving access to identical fields of activity, the directives for the mutual recognition of professional qualifications and for the co-ordination of as little as possible to the prescription of detailed training requirements.
III. In order to put this guideline into effect:
—lists of diplomas, certificates and other evidence of formal qualifications recognised as being equivalent should be drawn up.
—Advisory Committees, the terms of reference and composition of which are still to be determined, should be set up.
IV. The Council instructs the Permanent Representatives Committee to ensure, in co-operation with the Commission, that this Resolution is implemented, especially as regards the examination of the proposals for directives on the mutual recognition of diplomas, certificates and other evidence of formal qualifications.
Would the Minister agree that the Europeans now recognise that this whole problem tended to cannibalise the educational field at the European level and that far too much importance has been attached to it?
Mr. R. Burke
The Deputy would have to explain the word "cannibalise" in this context. I agree there has been a lack of progress in this field but I doubt if I would use the term used by the Deputy in this connection. If he wishes me to pursue this matter, perhaps he will clarify the point he is making.
Would the Minister agree that since the signing of the Treaty of Rome there has been over-concentration on degrees and diplomas and no concentration whatever on general educational development prior to, and even since, the Dahrendorf Report?
Mr. R. Burke
The Deputy is probably aware of the reason. The Treaty of Rome, Article 57, deals with this not as a matter of general education but as a matter dealing with specific movement. The question of general education may have to be pursued in a wider context.
17.
asked the Minister for Education whether he considers that the future of teacher-training lies with post-graduate teaching diplomas or with primary degrees in education; and whether teacher-training which would facilitate mobility between the primary, secondary and vocational sections is feasible in the immediate future and, if not, why.
Mr. R. Burke
The planning committee which I set up to make recommendations about teacher-training have reported to me and their recommendations have been sent to the relevant institutions and organisations for their views. These views have not yet become available to me. When I receive them I hope to have consultations with all the interested parties about the various matters raised by the report, including the matters raised by the Deputy.
18.
asked the Minister for Education the extent to which overseas diplomas and overseas teaching experience are recognised by his Department; and, where they are not given recognition comparable to Irish diplomas and experience, why.
Mr. R. Burke
Recognition as teachers in national schools may be given to teachers from overseas countries who have successfully completed a comparable full-time training course at a recognised institution and who, in addition, are eligible for recognition as teachers in State primary schools in those countries. They must pass qualifying examinations in Irish to obtain full recognition as teachers in national schools.
In the case of secondary teachers, a diploma whether obtained in this country or elsewhere is accepted when the course leading to that diploma satisfies the requirements of the Secondary Teachers' Registration Council.
In the case of teachers in schools under vocational education committees, a diploma must satisfy the requirements of my Department's Memorandum V.7 which states the qualifications required for the purpose of recognition of such teachers.
Would the Minister like to state when recognition of teaching service abroad in certain categories will be allowed by his Department, as announced by him in answer to a question by me comparatively recently?
Mr. R. Burke
The Deputy would need to clarify what he means by "as announced by him in answer to a question by me".
The Minister, in answer to a question by me about the recognition of teaching service abroad for the purpose of payment of incremental salary, said he was considering the matter, that there were some difficulties and that he would have an announcement to make about this recognition of service.
Mr. R. Burke
Consideration of the difficulties relates to a matter before the Supreme Court. The said matter has not been determined. Therefore, the difficulties still exist and I cannot make an announcement.
Would the Minister not agree that he said, in reply to a supplementary question by me at that time, that the Supreme Court case was not coextensive with the problem of recognition of service?
Mr. R. Burke
I cannot recall exactly what I said about it being coextensive but it certainly relates to the matter. Might I add that those persons who are alleged to be circulating documents in my own constituency are engaging in an exercise which may give them some pleasure but will have no effect on the matter in question. I am in favour of the matter being pursued to a proper end. Therefore the said persons engaged in this activity have no reason to engage in it at all.
(Interruptions.)