Deputy Denis Gallagher has given me notice of his intention to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of Question No. 19 on the Order Paper of 3rd July last—to ask the Minister for Education the plans his Department have for post-primary education in Achill, County Mayo.
Adjournment Debate. - Achill (Mayo) Post-Primary Education.
Tá mé buíoch díot féin agus don Aire deis a thabhairt dom an cheist seo a lua anseo.
I am grateful to you for giving me an opportunity to raise this matter, which is of great urgency and, indeed, great concern to the people of Achill and a large catchment area where two schools, a vocational school and a secondary school are in operation at the moment. It is necessary to give a résumé of the situation with regard to the development of secondary and vocational education in this area since 1948. The manager of the secondary school, who was a past pupil of Scoil Eanna, after 16 years as a secondary teacher in another part of the country, came back to Achill in 1948 and tried to establish a secondary school for the benefit of the people of the area.
He was successful. Indeed, all credit is due to the man because at that time he was afforded very little help from the State and from the then Archbishop of Tuam who was at the time opposed to co-education. However, the man in question, Mr. Sweeney, did a tremendous job. He managed to bring secondary education to the people of Achill for the first time. The position in that area at the time was that we had a high rate of emigration, when people emigrated at a very early age. Then, because they were encouraged and were in a position to receive higher education very cheaply and at their own doorstep they were glad to take advantage of this opportunity.
The first school, if one might call it a school, which Mr. Sweeney had was in a disused railway store. As a result of local help, help from emigrants and a very generous grant from Roinn na Gaeltachta he succeeded in having a new premises set up and built a new secondary school. As I have stated, this school did tremendous work for the parish and the surrounding areas. There are many brilliant pupils of Mr. Sweeney who have got employment throughout the country. You have priests, people in professions and other employment throughout the country and this is entirely due to his work. Seven members of my own family attended this school. I am in a position to judge Mr. Sweeney's work and I am delighted to be able to pay a tribute to him here.
At the same time as this expansion took place we had a vocational school in the parish. It was built in the early 1930s and was up to the end of the 1940s more or less a white elephant because it was used just for night classes. When people saw the secondary school making such progress they asked why the vocational school which was lying idle was not used. The vocational education committee, at the request of the parents, was staffed and it began to do its job. We then had a position in the 1970s where the vocational school and the secondary school worked side by side in the interests of the people of Achill.
A position then arose where the existing vocational school, because of free education and so on, was not suitable to cater for the number of pupils attending. At this stage the Mayo Vocational Education Committee decided it was necessary to build a new vocational school and a decision to this effect was taken by them. At the request of Mr. Sweeney, the principal of the secondary school, a site was purchased adjacent to the secondary school where the new vocational school could be erected, the idea being that if the two schools were side by side it would be possible to have rationalisation of teachers and transport and it would also be possible for the pupils to avail of a greater range of subjects.
The vocational education committee bought this site in 1968 and plans were drawn up for the building of the new vocational school. Before plans were completed a new concept was introduced when the Department of Education began to talk about having a community school built. With this in view for Achill the Department met the people from the vocational school, the vocational education committee and Mr. Sweeney in March, 1972. No progress was made as a result of the Department's visit to Achill. Apparently the principal of the secondary school was not prepared at that stage to accept the terms which were offered by the Department of Education.
In early 1973, the end of January or early February, the Minister for Education, while in Mayo, met the vocational education committee and discussed the Achill situation as well as the whole situation with regard to vocational education in the county. Public representatives, who were not members of the vocational education committee, were invited to attend this particular meeting with the Minister. As one of the people present on that occasion, I was certainly under the impression that the Minister had made up his mind that he was going to take some positive action with regard to setting up a community school in Achill. He gave a date to the committee—I think it was 7th February or 15th February—on which he said they would hear from him and that he would certainly take positive action.
The next news we got from the Department was on 23rd March. The Minister, through his Department, decided that the vocational committee were being authorised to build a new vocational school at Achill Sound, but that the vocational school would have permission to have the junior cycle and the secondary school would have the senior cycle. This was objected to, of course, by the vocational committee and, to my mind, rightly so. The numbers were increasing in the vocational school and for the past three years they had been running a senior cycle and were quite successful. This year they had 14 pupils sitting for the leaving certificate and it is envisaged that next year they will have 20, given permission to do so.
The experience is that pupils will not transfer from a vocational school to a secondary school. We have an example of this in Charlestown where, in the past number of years, 75 pupils sat for the intermediate certificate in Charlestown vocational school and only four of the 75 have gone across to do their leaving certificate in the secondary school. That figure speaks for itself. We believe that the same pupils will not transfer from the vocational school to the secondary school.
This decision is certainly a downgrading of the vocational school. As I have said, they have been doing quite well. The fact that their numbers are increasing is an indication that the people in the locality are satisfied with their work. This decision would certainly mean a downgrading of the vocational school. The parents who asked to meet the Minister in connection with this are greatly annoyed that he has not met them on the issue, and that he has taken this decision without any consultation whatever with the parents. That is rather high-handed and unfair. The parents requested him to meet them on a few occasions and he has refused to meet them.
They found it necessary last October to take strike action because of the conditions prevailing in the existing school. I have a copy of the letter which was sent to the Minister on 30th October, 1973, which gives a detailed account of the conditions in the vocational school and the conditions in which the teachers and the pupils have to work. One paragraph states that the most serious aspect of the whole school is the fact that there are only two toilets for 160 pupils. That is for the whole school, for teachers and pupils. People are very patient to put up with this kind of treatment in this day and age.
This brings me to the matter which prompted me to put down a question to the Minister. His reply was anything but satisfactory. He said:
Discussions are still proceeding with the authorities concerned in regard to the appropriate provision to be made at both junior and senior cycle level for the pupils of the area. A final decision has not, so far been reached in the matter.
In other words, we are at a stage where there is no progress, where nothing is being done. It appears to me that, if one side decides to object, the whole matter will be left in abeyance. A precedent is being established here not only for Achill but for the whole country. There is a similar situation in Belmullet——
The Deputy must confine his remarks to the subject matter of the question, Achill.
——where the same position is likely to arise. Tá rud eile a bhaineann leis an scéal go bhfuil na scoltacha i gceist ag freastal ar an Ghaeltacht. Ní thig linn a rá go bhfuil muid sásta ar chor ar bith leis an gcaoi atá an tAire agus an Roinn Oideachais ag déileáil leis an cheist seo. Dá bhrí, sin d'iarfainn ar an Aire a dhícheall a dhéanamh go mbeadh toradh éigin ar a chuid oibre agus go mbeadh dearbhú éigin ag na tuismitheoirí agus ag na páistí go gcuirfear scoil ar bun in Acaill, scoil a bhéas sásúil agus tá súil againn nach beidh muid a fanacht ró-fhada leis an scoil sin. Má chuimhníonn an príomhoide, an tUasal MacSuibhne, ar an bprionsabal a bhí ina cheann nuair a tháinig sé ar ais agus nuair a bhunaigh sé scoil in Achaill agus má choinníonn sé leis an bprionsabal sin glacfaidh sé anois gur scoil chuimsitheach an scoil is fearr agus an rud ceart le cur ar bun in Acaill. D'iarrfainn ar an Aire a dhícheall a dhéanamh go mbeadh sé sin curtha ar fáil go lua.
I echo the sentiments expressed by the Deputy in the last part of his contribution where he asked Mr. Sweeney, the principal of Scoil Damhnait, to remember his thoughts on coming back there in 1948 and to have what the Deputy called a comprehensive school in Achill. The first thing that needs to be said here is that the Achill community have at present a total of 289 second level pupils divided between the two secondary schools in the area, one a lay secondary school, Scoil Damhnait, and the other a secondary school managed by the County Mayo VEC.
A survey of the enrolments in the primary school would indicate that the number of pupils requiring secondary education will fall rather than increase in the next five or six years. Therefore, the obvious future development should be on the basis of a single school, if that is at all possible, in order to secure and ensure that the pupils will have available to them the widest possible range of subjects and best possible facilities to cater adequately for their varying aptitudes and interests.
It was for these reasons, and also because Achill vocational school is in need of replacement, that my Department proposed in May, 1972 that the second level educational requirements of the area would be best served by the creation of a community school. The County Mayo Vocational Education Committee agreed in principle to this proposal, but the owner of the lay secondary school would agree to a community school only on terms which would be unacceptable to the Department of Education. In the light of these circumstances my Department decided to authorise the vocational education committee to proceed to plan for a junior cycle vocational school. This plan envisaged the provision of senior cycle classes for all pupils in the area at the lay secondary school, and it was hoped that in such a situation there would be close co-operation between the two schools and that facilities would be shared where possible.
This proposal was, however, unacceptable to the vocational education committee, who rejected it at their meeting on 9th April, 1974. The vocational education committee expressed resentment at the fact that their school was now to lose its senior cycle classes in favour of a school which has at present a smaller enrolment. They were in touch with the principal of the lay school and invited him to meet representatives of the VEC in order to discuss co-operation between the two schools, but in a recent letter to my Department the VEC have stated that the aspired-for co-operation has not been forthcoming, if I may put it that way. My Department has fully explained to the Mayo VEC its views on the future educational development of the area and its desire to ensure that adequate provision is made without having a wasteful expenditure of public funds on a type of provision which would not be educationally adequate. The VEC is endeavouring, as I have mentioned already, to negotiate with the lay secondary school to provide an agreed plan, and my Department is hopefully awaiting the outcome of the discussions.
It must be borne in mind that the demands of school building on financial resources are so great that it is necessary to ensure that the provision of new school places in any area is adequate but not excessive. Deputy Gallagher mentioned my visit to the VEC in Mayo where I explained that the requirements of the vocational education scheme in Mayo would take up the total annual provision for vocational education available to me by votes of this House. He will, therefore, realise, on reflection, that if one of 38 schemes will eat up practically all the resources available to me, I must be careful not to duplicate facilities if I can avoid it. In the case of Achill it is estimated that a potential number of pupils requiring second level education will not exceed 330 at the maximum, and I do not consider that two separate schools could, each by itself, provide an adequate curriculum for the pupils.
My primary aim must be to ensure that the best possible educational opportunities are available to the pupils, and I honestly feel that this can best be achieved by the creation of a community school in Achill. It is, accordingly, my earnest wish that the two local authorities will see their way towards jointly agreeing on this development on a basis acceptable to my Department. If the community school is not acceptable to the authorities there, then I would plead with them to come together and by the provision of a junior cycle in one, with co-operation between that school and the other, to make available the best possible facilities for all the pupils in the area.
If the VEC were given permission to provide a senior cycle, it would mean building for at least four senior classes. Achill would then have two separate senior cycles for about 90 senior pupils at a total of about 400 school places, for a total enrolment that will exceed only by a small amount 300 in the foreseeable future. My aim, therefore, is not in any sense to downgrade the people of Achill but simply to take cognisance of the realities of the situation as I find them.
If some reasonable co-operative proposal can come from the people of Achill—parents, VEC, teachers, the lay management of Scoil Damhnait— I shall do my best to meet them. But I want to assure the House that I shall not be persuaded into the expenditure of unnecessary money for facilities which will provide too many school places for the area. I am anxious to meet the people in reasonable proposals. I am not prepared to waste the money of this House on unnecessary and unreasonable proposals.
May I ask the Minister a question? This is a larger catchment area than Achill. It takes in Ballycroy and Mulrany. I submit that with a suitable community school it would be possible to have a much larger enrolment than there is at present in the vocational and secondary schools.
Mr. R. Burke
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to have this agreement for a school which would serve an even wider area than Achill. I just used the word "Achill" because we all know what Achill denotes, but I am not necessarily confining it to the Island of Achill.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.55 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 11th July, 1974.