asked the Minister for Defence the position regarding the proposed 50 houses for married soldiers at the Curragh Training Camp, County Kildare.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Defence Forces Housing.
32.
Discussions are in progress between my Department and the National Building Agency regarding this project.
When does the Minister think erection of those houses will be effected? When will a start be made?
The Department of Finance conveyed oral sanction, on the 6th May, 1974, for my Department's proposals to build the 50 houses. The NBA were requested on the 9th May, 1974 to proceed with preliminary planning. On the 16th May, 1974 I was able to say, in replying to my Department's Estimate, that it had been decided to build the houses and that sanction had been granted. I said so in this House. From there it was a matter for the National Building Agency and we are keeping in touch with them to finalise matters as quickly as possible.
We have progressed from May, 1974 to January, 1975 and everything seems to have got bogged down just there.
No, I think not.
I asked the Minister what is the present position. We seem to have got bogged down since the sanction of May last. Would the Minister agree that we could be in the same position this time 12 months without a block having been placed?
The position is that as soon as I can possibly get it planned and ready I will go back to the Department of Finance to get the estimate of cost, when finalised, sanctioned again and get the houses built as quickly as possible.
Will the Minister be in touch with the National Building Agency again soon?
Oh, yes.
Could the Minister tell the House what significance should be attached to the words "oral sanction" being granted by the Department of Finance on some date in May last?
9th May, 1974.
Why did the Minister specify that it was oral sanction only? Is there some doubt that sanction was granted at all?
Because the officers of my Department supplied me with information that oral sanction was granted on the 6th May, 1974. I am sorry, it was 6th of May, 1974 and not the 9th as I said a few moments ago. That is the information given to me by the officers of my Department and I have no reason to doubt it.
Why specify on this occasion that it was oral sanction when normally we are informed?
The Deputy has already asked that question.
I can only give the Deputy the information given to me, and I shall give as much as I possibly can.
Might I further ask if the officials who were informed of the oral sanction were satisfied that that was adequate sanction for them to proceed further, or is the real position that they felt that until they got formal sanction they could not proceed with the further planning, and that this is the real cause of the delay that has taken place?
No, on the 9th May, 1974—that is, three days after they received oral sanction—the National Building Agency were requested to proceed with preliminary planning and to furnish a firm estimate of cost.
Could the Minister inform us what type of house is envisaged? Is it envisaged that they will be traditional-type houses or system built ones?
As I have said, planning is proceeding. The previous 50 houses were to some extent system built. I think they were not fully system built. I would say they were partly conventional.
The Minister is not too clear on the matter?
No, the position is that the front of them to some extent could be described as system built. It is a question of what one calls system built.
The plans are at that stage, are they?
The plans are well advanced.
Could the Minister say whether or not the officers of his Department have, since the 9th of May, 1974, sought written sanction for that which was given to them on the telephone on the 9th May?
The position is that we had oral sanction on the 6th of May. When we have received final planning from the National Building Agency, and have the final cost, then we shall go back for final sanction, which we shall do without the slightest delay. There were three days delay only in the first instance.
Is that the normal fashion in which the Minister's Department deal with the Department of Finance?
Yes.
That is unusual.
Question No. 33, please.
In view of the fact that the question concerns the consituency I represent——
The Chair has already allowed a lot of supplementaries.
In view of the grave concern felt by married personnel in the Curragh at the failure to implement something they felt should have been carried out last summer, could the Minister explain why there appears to have been no liaison or communication between his Department and the National Building Agency in a matter which should have conveyed to the Minister at least a sense of urgency, why eight months have elapsed without an effort having been made to produce the figures he needed and the plans?
There was constant liaison between the National Building Agency and my Department as I can read from the files here. There was a period of eight months during which planning was in progress but I should hope that there would be very little further delay.
Question No. 33, please.
Would the Minister not consider it his duty, in view of there being an eight-month delay, to give the NBA a fillip?
I will do that.
Could the Minister——
I have called the next question.
May I ask one final supplementary?
Yes.
Can the Minister give us an estimate of the length of time he expects it will take for the houses to be completed from the date of sanction being given by the Department to proceed with the planning of these houses? Is it the Minister's opinion that another 12 months will elapse before the houses can be occupied, thereby involving a delay of 18 or 20 months?
I should hope that the length of time would not be 18 months.
Would it be the Minister's hope that the houses would be ready for occupation within 12 months from now?
Yes.
That would involve fairly quick building.
Yes.
The Minister for Local Government seems to think that houses can be built in three months.
The ones that are being built now are staying up and do not require repairs every six months.