Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 Apr 1975

Vol. 279 No. 8

Adjournment Debate: County Galway Water Scheme.

Mr. Molloy

Question No. 5 I put down on today's Order Paper read as follows:

To ask the Minister for Local Government the present position regarding the proposed Spiddal regional water scheme, County Galway.

The Minister replied as follows:

I received a request from Galway County Council on Monday the 7th instant, for a provisional order declaring that the proposal to extract water from Lough Boliska for the purposes of this scheme may come into force. This is at present being examined.

Following that reply I asked the Minister if he could give a guarantee that this matter would be dealt with immediately. I stated that I felt it was urgent. The Minister replied to that as follows:

This originally came into the Department in September, 1972. The Deputy can be assured that I have been pursuing this matter and that I ironed out a number of problems which it did not seem could be done.

I found the terms of that reply most unsatisfactory as I believe the Minister's intention was to create the impression that this scheme had been lying in the Department of Local Government since September, 1972 and that it was only because of some action he took the scheme was now progressing. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. The Minister should not try to create an illusion of activity and action on his part until such can be justified. Enough said for the moment along those lines.

What I am interested in is ensuring that the people of Spiddal, Furbo and the other areas to be served by this scheme get piped water into their homes as quickly as possible. The scheme, as proposed by Galway County Council, will cover a very large area and serve approximately 600 houses. I think that is the correct figure. The Minister has not been involved in this yet though he wrongly claimed in the Dáil, I say, that he had. I trust he will avail of this opportunity to clear up the matter when he is replying. Be that as it may, the position since the 7th April, 1975 is that the council await the Minister's reply to their request dated 4th April, 1975. Perhaps I may quote a letter forwarded to me by the Secretary of Galway County Council dated 4th April, 1975 which reads as follows:

Re:Spiddal Regional Water Supply Scheme—

Dear Deputy,

I refer to your representations regarding the above and wish to inform you that I have today applied to the Minister for Local Government for a provisional order declaring that the proposal under the Water Supplies Act, 1942, made by Galway County Council on the 2nd July, 1974 may come into force.

Yours sincerely,

Secretary.

I would suggest to the Minister that he can earn the appreciation of the people to be served by the scheme through giving quick approval to Galway County Council's request as outlined in the letter dated 4th April I have just quoted.

Let me give a brief history of the scheme. On the 2nd July, 1974 Galway County Council made a proposal, under the Water Supplies Act, 1942, to extract water from Loch bPoll Uisce, Spiddal for a regional water scheme to serve approximately 600 houses. A number of local landowners and persons interested in the Spiddal salmon fisheries raised objections to the terms of the order. Galway County Council held a series of negotiations with the objectors until all but one objector had been satisfied, and he represented a fishery interest. Finally, after further negotiations, the last objector, Mr. Buckley, sent the following letter to Galway County Council which they received on the 24th March, 1975, and which read as follows:

Dear Mr. Secretary,

Re: Spiddal Regional Water Supply Scheme proposed under the Water Supplies Act, 1942.

I withdraw my objection to the above proposal on the condition that the Minister, in confirming the proposal of Galway County Council, substitutes the sentence commencing "The maximum rate" on line 6 of paragraph 2 of the notice received by me with the following: "The maximum rate at which water will be extracted by the County Council while the top Sill level of the dam remains at 58.83 metres (193 feet O.D.) is 2,730 cubic metres (600,000 gallons per day when the scheme is fully developed ultimately)." The amendment to this sentence in the proposal, I am given to understand, has the full approval of Galway County Council. In the event of the Minister not agreeing to this substitution, my objection will stand.

Yours faithfully,

Herbert S. Buckley.

An Ceann Comhairle

I was going to say, Deputy, that it is a convention of the House that, if it can be avoided at all, the names of persons outside the House ought not be mentioned, or, indeed, mentioned in such a fashion as to be identifiable.

Mr. Molloy

It is so easily identifiable in this case that I think the convention was not really meant to be applicable in this case.

That letter was sent to the county council and a copy was sent to me by Mr. Buckley whose name has been mentioned already anyway with an accompanying letter in which he stated:

It appears that the County Council finally agreed with my wording of the proposal for the water supply scheme. This is exactly what I asked them to do in August, 1974.

In the Dáil this afternoon the Minister remarked and I quote:

I ironed out a number of problems which it did not seem could be done.

I submit that that remark of the Minister is not true and should be corrected by him. The solution to the problem was proposed by Mr. Buckley and, had it been agreed by the officials of Galway County Council when it was made in August, 1974, it would have saved many months of unnecessary delay. The Minister's final remark today about this scheme not being cleared up by me before now is seen to be a false allegation. If the Minister has any decency in him, he will withdraw it gracefully.

This scheme serves a Gaeltacht area and Roinn na Gaeltachta will be involved in financing the scheme with Galway County Council. Coláiste Chonnacht, An Spidéal, takes large numbers of scoláirí gaeilge during the summer months. The housewives who cater for these children are working under conditions of great hardship without piped water supply in their houses. The Minister recently in a letter to a member of Spiddal Parish Council advised that pressure should be brought to bear on Galway County Council to expedite the scheme. He said it was only number eight on a priority list. I submit that this is not correct, that Galway County Council do not now operate a priority listing in this fashion. The Minister should give the approval now requested so that Galway County Council will not be pressurised at anybody's behest in progressing with the scheme.

I regret that I found it necessary to raise this matter which is related solely to an area within my own constituency, but it gives me an opportunity to highlight the necessity for urgency in dealing with the Spiddal scheme. I hope the Minister can give some assurance to the people of Spiddal that this scheme will be dealt with expeditiously, because, obviously, the cause for delay in dealing with the order now before the Minister cannot be very grave and, I would suggest, could be dealt with in a very short time.

Minister for Local Government (Mr. Tully)

First, I think I should apologise to you, Sir, and to the staff of this House that apparently certain members of the Opposition have made it a practice to bring me back on the Adjournment, as declared by one of the Members some time ago, on the most foolish and ridiculous excuses, and this is further evidence of it. Deputy Molloy today asked a question and got a full answer to it. Let me quote the reply to which he referred, some of which he gave:

This originally came into the Department in September, 1972. The Deputy can be assured that I have been pursuing the matter and that I ironed out a number of problems which it did not seem could be done. There will be no unnecessary delay.

It is extraordinary that Deputy Molloy did not mention that particular sentence when he was giving the reasons for raising the question here, and, in fact he proceeded to say he wanted to raise it on the Adjournment. I suggest that the reason he has given is a bogus one. He just wanted to be, like a number of his colleagues, rather smart.

The problem of providing piped water in south Connemara was first considered in 1963, when a consultant engineer, was appointed by Galway County Council to carry out an exploratory survey. His initial proposal to serve the area from a single source, Loch Corrib which was submitted to the Department in January, 1971, was rejected by the Department in September of that year and it was also contrary to an agreement, reached in discussions which took place in 1964 between the technical officers of the Department, the local authority and the consultant, that the area should be served from local sources. That seemed to be a reasonable reason for rejecting it.

Revised preliminary proposals for a scheme to serve the Spiddal area, including Spiddal village, using Lough Boliska as a source were received in the Department in September, 1972. A first stage of the proposal consisting of headworks, rising main, reservoir and certain trunk mains at an estimated cost of £245,000 was approved in principle on 1st December, 1972, by Deputy Molloy when he was Minister for Local Government. Approval was given on the understanding that every effort would be made to promote the laying of the distribution system by groups, and the approval was also subject to the acquisition of the necessary water rights. Therefore, as far as I am aware, it seemed to have lain there until a deputation from the area— not led by Deputy Molloy, but by the member of the council to which he referred a few minutes ago, and including the local clergyman and another gentleman—came to me and complained bitterly that nothing was being done by either Galway County Council or anybody else to have the scheme proceeded with. On inquiry I found it was being held up in the main because agreement on the water rights could not be obtained, and that the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries were very much involved. Nobody apparently had made any effort—certainly nobody at ministerial level—to have that cleared until then. I contacted the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries personally and my officials from that day until now have been continually pressing this issue. The result was that the issues involved were cleared with the exception of the one issue of the water rights of Deputy Molloy's friend who has finally agreed now, on conditions, to withdraw his objection.

Mr. Molloy

Was there a consultant appointed?

Mr. Tully

In 1963. The Deputy knows how long ago that is, 12 years. I have been here two years. We should keep these things in their proper order. I know we have been doing wonderful things, but we cannot do in two years what our predecessors failed to do in ten or 12 years.

Mr. Molloy

When was approval in principle given?

Mr. Tully

It was given in December, 1972. When those interested people, who apparently did not go to Deputy Molloy to have representations made but directly to me in the Department, came to me, immediately the matter was got under way. My officials have done everything they possibly could to get the matter clear in the meantime. I have had further representations from people, including some former supporters of the Deputy's party in that area who were interested in having the matter looked after.

Mr. Molloy

Who would that be?

Mr. Tully

I think the Deputy knows.

Mr. Molloy

Who is it?

Mr. Tully

The Deputy knows about the letter that was written—a friend of a friend.

Mr. Molloy

He is still a supporter.

Mr. Tully

I would not like to get between the Deputy's supporters and ex-supporters. I might get into trouble with Deputy Mrs. Geoghegan Quinn if I tried to find out who the various supporters were.

Mr. Molloy

They are supporters of our party.

Mr. Tully

That is a debatable point, where parties and individuals come in. The Department recognised that the acquisition of the water rights might be difficult, and the manager was advised informally in December, 1972, that he should consider meeting the owners and explaining the proposed scheme to them. This was done in Deputy Molloy's time. Despite that, nothing was done. Most of the delay which was caused was due to the fact that the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries were apparently not made aware of the urgency of it and, secondly, because Galway County Council did not, in my opinion, continue until they were approached by the officials of my Department, who insisted that the matter should be proceeded with. I am very glad the matter has reached the stage that it has.

I want to take up Deputy Molloy on one of the statements he made a minute ago as to where the scheme occurs on the priority list. He may not be aware that on 11th March, 1975, a report for the half year ended 31st December, 1974, was received in my Department giving Sanitary Services Programme, Part 1, and listing a number of schemes. It starts with (1) Ahascragh, estimated cost £68,000; (2) Galway city, eastern environs, extension to Oranmore, £105,000; Reservoir at Briar Hill, £80,000; (3) Galway city, western environs, £562,000; (4) Tuam augmentation, £40,000; (5) Costello, £394,000; (6) Oughterard, £246,000; (7) Spiddal, the one we are talking about—I said number eight but it is number seven— £245,000.

If Deputy Molloy is not aware that there is a priority list in the council of which he is a member and that they have submitted that priority scheme to the Department, perhaps he would ask the secretary of the Council to let him have a copy of it. When I was a member of a county council I always insisted on being given information like this. It is very useful to know. One does not make a fool of oneself in the House by making statements which are not correct.

Mr. Molloy

Are they listed one, two, three, four, five by the county council or by the Department?

Mr. Tully

By the county council.

Mr. Molloy

Could I inform the Minister that Galway County Council does not have priority listing giving the first priority to one group, second priority to another group and so on——

An Ceann Comhairle

The debate must continue without cross-questioning or cross-examination. The Minister is now in possession.

Mr. Tully

There are two other things I want to finish with.

Mr. Molloy

We do not have that type of priority list.

Mr. Tully

You do not get any option. All councils were asked by Kevin Boland, when he was Minister for Local Government, to produce a priority list, including water and sewerage. This they did and this is being continued and no amount of wiggling will alter the situation that this list was submitted to us on the 11th March.

Mr. Molloy

I think, being a member of the council, I should know.

Mr. Tully

A lot of things happened which Deputy Molloy was not aware of and I am trying to bring him up to date. The next thing we come to is the question of whether or not this could be sanctioned. Apparently Deputy Molloy was under the impression that all Galway County Council had to do was to send in word saying: "This man, under certain conditions, is now prepared to withdraw and we approve of the conditions" and that by return post we would give sanction. He should know that there is a period of 21 days when this friend of Deputy Molloy's might decide he would withdraw his conditions or withdraw his agreement to conditions and might, in fact, insist on his objection going forward in which case there would still have to be an inquiry. Because of that nothing can be done until at least the 28th of this month but that does not mean there will be a water supply in this area. If Deputy Molloy wants to take the advice which I gave to the gentleman I wrote to at his request the place where the pressure has to be put on is in Galway County Council. If they want to notify the Department that it is now No. 1 on their list then we will attempt to expedite the matter and try to ensure that when everything else has been done we will be able to deal with the matter. A lot has to be done because, according to Galway County Council, even if this was cleared now the target for completion of planning for this scheme is November, 1975 and the target date for construction is 1977. Apparently Deputy Molloy was under the impression that all he had to do was to put down a question here today, get the right answers which he wanted and then go back and do a Moses act, bring along his littel rod, touch the rock and everybody in Connemara had a water supply set up.

Mr. Molloy

Why does the Minister keep looking at the Press Gallery?

Mr. Tully

I am looking at the clock. There is a clock up there.

Mr. Molloy

Nobody knows anything about this but the Minister. What about the priority list?

Mr. Tully

The last day Deputy Molloy had a question on the Adjournment I did not have to look at the clock because he ran away when he made his case.

Mr. Molloy

The Chair would not let me continue. Let the Minister be fair.

Mr. Tully

I am always very fair but I hate the type of smart-aleck attitude adopted by certain members of the Opposition. If any Deputy is fair with me I will be fair with him. I gave a perfectly reasonable and fair reply to Deputy Molloy today but instead of accepting it as a man he asked to raise it on the Adjournment after he got the full information he asked for.

Mr. Molloy

What were the problems which the Minister stated could not be overcome?

An Ceann Comhairle

I advise the Minister his ten minutes is up.

Mr. Tully

I was under the impression that half an hour was allowed for the debate and if the Deputy making his case did not take his full 20 minutes the time was left to the Minister. Is that correct?

An Ceann Comhairle

That may well be so but the Deputy failed to utilise his 20 minutes tonight.

Mr. Tully

Can I not use the balance of the half hour debate?

An Ceann Comhairle

I presume the half hour Adjournment is there for that purpose.

Mr. Tully

I do not intend to take very much longer but I am entitled to finish my case. I have been watching the clock so that I will not go over the time.

Mr. Molloy

What are the problems which the Minister said could not be overcome?

Mr. Tully

The problems were that from the time Deputy Molloy sanctioned the scheme in principle until he left office several months later he apparently had not done anything to try to ensure that the matter would be cleared either by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries or by Galway County Council. Until the constituents of his who were interested and felt that nobody was doing anything about it at local level came to me the matter was not again raised by anybody at departmental level.

Mr. Molloy

That is rubbish.

Mr. Tully

The Deputy should have taken his 20 minutes but did not do so. He cannot have it both ways.

Mr. Molloy

I became a member of the county council in June and got something going in July.

Mr. Tully

The Deputy was a member of the county council from June. He was a Member of this House with the right of entry to the county council if he wanted but he did not do anything about it. He thought it was now cleared and that he could claim responsibility for it. The responsibility for having this matter brought so far rests with the local representatives from the area. They included the local PP, who was interested in the scheme, without any political ties at all. When he came to me I did not ask him what his politics were but I ensured that the matter would be pushed forward by my officials as rapidly as possible. We are doing what we can but I do not want Deputy Molloy or anybody else to get the impression that simply signing this when the time comes, if there is no objection, will mean that at the end of this month there will be water in the Connemara area overnight, because it will still take considerable time. The Deputy can be assured there will be no avoidable delay, as I told him today at Question Time, on the part of me, as Minister, or my officials because we are as anxious to see the water supply there as anybody else.

Mr. Molloy

That is what I wanted to know. I wanted to ensure there would be no avoidable delay.

Mr. Tully

The Deputy was told that today at 3 o'clock but he would not accept it. He wanted to come back here tonight. He has had his little bit of fun and I hope he likes it.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 10th April, 1975.