Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 May 1975

Vol. 280 No. 11

Private Members' Business. - Adjournment Debate: Clare Industries.

Mr. Daly

I should like to express my thanks to the Chair for giving me the opportunity to raise the subject matter of these questions on the Adjournment. I sought this opportunity to draw the attention of the Government, the Minister for Industry and Commerce and the public to the serious and unsatisfactory economic situation that has developed in west Clare. This has arisen because of the closure of two factories. When I raised the question of establishing new industries in that area some time ago I received a reply similar to that which was read out today, that negotiations were in progress and it was hoped to have some definite proposals in the near future. Nothing has happened since. In fact, since the Coalition came into office nothing has been done to improve the position in the area.

There is uncertainty about establishing new industries and workers in long established industries in Kilrush are on short time. In that town 1,500 people sign for unemployment benefit and assistance weekly. The pay-related benefit scheme does not apply to most of those people because they did not have the necessary number of insurance stamps to qualify. I expressed my concern about a factory which closed down some months ago in a question to the Minister for Industry and Commerce on 21st January last. I asked that Minister if he was aware of the concern amongst employees of a company in Kilrush regarding future employment prospects at a factory in that town. The Minister for Transport and Power, who replied on behalf of the Minister for Industry and Commerce on that occasion, stated:

I am aware of the difficulties being experienced by this company and I can understand the concern of the employees. Initial problems have now been resolved but due to a downturn in demand the company has had to cut back its production programme with a consequent reduction in its workforce and the introduction of short-time working. Some further reductions are expected before the company's operations can be stabilised. The Industrial Development Authority are working closely with the company in assisting it through the current difficulties.

An Ceann Comhairle

I trust that matter is specifically related to the questions raised by the Deputy this afternoon?

Mr. Daly

It is. That reply refers to the same industry which has closed down. At that time the Minister gave an assurance that the initial problems had been resolved. He was hopeful that the matter would be resolved and the difficulties overcome. However, within ten days of that assurance the factory closed down. This raises a question in relation to the information supplied in reply to parliamentary questions. In January the Minister informed me that there was a downturn in demand for the commodity produced in that factory but, nevertheless, the same week that factory closed down a similar industry for die-casting was announced for the Shannon region.

If there was a downturn in demand how was it that after the Kilrush industry closed down another one commenced operation in Shannon? I can not understand that. When I raised the question about the second industry I was told in a reply that because of a recession in the demand for the product in the UK market the plant had ceased operation. That factory was only in operation for less than six months and I cannot understand how it was not possible to foresee that type of recession in the UK market before operations commenced. Had an investigation been carried out prior to the establishment of that industry we would not have had the alarming situation that arose six months after it commenced operation.

I asked the Minister for Labour if any unsafe machines were being used by that die-casting company in 1974 and if a prosecution had been brought against the company. Even though consultations were going on with the company in relation to its future at that time apparently the workers were not aware that the company was in breach of safety regulations. However, this was the position even though £182,000 had been paid out of State funds but the Minister did not seem to know, at least he did not make this information available when he was asked this question. In my view this calls for a detailed inquiry. The Minister is falling down in his responsibility.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the Deputy referring to the Minister for Labour or the Minister for Industry and Commerce?

Mr. Daly

It was the Minister for Labour who was involved in the prosecution brought under the Factories Act, 1955. Surely the Ministers for Finance, Industry and Commerce and Labour are involved in this matter. One might expect the Ministers would have some way of finding out what was the position so that a situation would not arise where a factory had to close.

There were hopes in the die-casting industry that this would be a major development, one that would spearhead further industrial development in the area and open the entire west Clare area. The position now is that fully-trained people in the die-casting industry in Kilrush are unable to get alternative employment. Many of these people returned with their families from England. They bought houses in the area but now there is no apparent hope of their finding suitable employment.

The position is so serious in Kilrush and in west Clare that the Kilrush Chamber of Commerce, the urban district council and other interested bodies have called a series of meetings to discuss this matter and one of those meetings is due to be held next week. What is needed is immediate action by the Minister to ensure that something positive is done. Promises are of little use unless they are backed up by performance. Today the Minister gave some ray of hope with a promise of 230 jobs but it was a vague promise and I should like the Minister to elaborate on it. In any event, 230 jobs will only solve part of the problem because, 1,500 people are signing at the local employment exchange.

In this area there is the Shannon estuary which is probably the finest deep-sea port in the west of Europe but the Government have not made any effort to develop the potential of the area. There have been many studies, reports and outline plans but no positive action to attract industry which would open not only the Clare area but the west of Ireland for development. There was a proposal by the ESB for a high tension crossing of the Shannon from Tarbert in Kerry to Clare which would give worthwhile employment but this project has been postponed and, in view of the general recession, it is unlikely it will be proceeded with for a considerable time. I realise this is probably a matter for the Minister for Transport and Power but I am mentioning it now to illustrate how another promise was not fulfilled.

The whole issue boils down to the fact that there is a lack of action on the part of the Minister for Industry and Commerce. I am glad to have the opportunity tonight of asking him to take a personal initiative in this matter in an effort to resolve this serious crisis.

Mr. Barrett

Everything Deputy Daly has said with regard to the closure of the Federal Die-Casting Company is true. For a long time the previous Government and the people of the area concerned tried to encourage industry to that part of the county. Admittedly in the central part of the county, in the Shannon development area around Ennis, there was considerable success in encouraging industrialists. Possibly they were more attracted to the Shannon area because of its proximity to the airport and to centres such as Ennis and Limerick. There has always been considerable difficulty in attracting industrialists to the western part of the county but, with the help of the Shannon Development Company, efforts in recent years have been successful.

The ceramics factory was successful. Some years ago that firm found themselves in serious trouble but the Government, through the IDA, came to their rescue. That effort was successful and the industry has expanded. The Federal Die-Casting Company came to the area and got the usual encouragement and help that industrialists get. A number of local people were trained abroad; now they are skilled in their trade and are well able to compete with other skilled people in that industry. As Deputy Daly pointed out, this industry closed down some weeks ago but, at the same time, a similar type of industry started at Shannon Airport. It was said the industry in Kilrush closed because of lack of demand and market conditions and people wondered why a similar industry was opening at Shannon. It was considered they could have taken over the premises at Kilrush which had machinery, even though some of it was found wanting when it was examined at the time of closure. If the new industry were located in Kilrush it would relieve the serious unemployment in the area. Even though there is considerable industry in the central part of the county, people from other areas have to travel long distances to work and this is an important factor in view of the high cost of travel.

Today the Minister spoke about the possibility of a large industry coming within eight miles of the area we are discussing. We hope this will materialise but, as the Minister indicated today, it cannot be regarded as helping the immediate situation. A lot of preparatory work has to be done, surveys to be carried out and so on, and it is too soon to be offering this as the safety valve for the one which has closed down. It would be appreciated if something could be procured for the town of Kilrush in the immediate future in order to absorb a large number of unemployed people in the area.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. Keating)

Unless I am mistaken—and we shall find out in the next few minutes—I think we have witnessed a fairly serious abuse of this Adjournment Debate by Deputy Daly. I want to refer to the unrevised transcript of Question Time today where I believe he made a fairly serious mistake which either he has not spotted up to now or else he is trying to cover up because I did not answer the questions to which he made reference, but I had read my brief before coming in. I am quoting from just after 4 o'clock—I cannot give a column reference since it is the unrevised version of the Official Report of today. There Deputy Daly is quoted as saying:

In reply to a question of mine on 21st of January in relation to one industry in Kilrush the Minister assured me that the initial problems had been resolved there and that he hoped everything was OK. Within a week of that assurance the place had closed down. Is he not aware of that?

I suggest to Deputy Daly that that is not true; that he was confusing one factory with another, and that either he spotted that at the time and has not had the guts to own to it or else he has not spotted it yet.

Mr. Daly

I think it is the Minister who is confused.

Mr. Keating

I think it is the Deputy who is confused. Let us call them, if we do not give them their full names, the dye-casting factory and the typewriter factory. All right?

Mr. Daly

The two of them are closed.

Mr. Keating

The dye-casting factory—was that the one to which the Deputy was referring? Was it the dye-casting factory to which the Deputy was referring in the paragraph I have just quoted?

Mr. Daly

The two question were raised on the same date.

Mr. Keating

No, no. Then the Deputy does know he made a mistake and now he is twisting. He has not even got the guts to face the mistake he made.

Mr. Daly

I think it is the Minister who is confused.

Mr. Keating

The Deputy did. He should not interrupt me now. He has now revealed enough of the position; he had his bite of the cherries——

Mr. Daly

The Minister is asking me the questions.

An Ceann Comhairle

That must be the end of the questions now.

Mr. Keating

The Deputy has answered enough to reveal his mistakes.

An Ceann Comhairle

Order. The Minister now without interruption.

Mr. Daly

The Minister is confused.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Daly, no further interruption.

Mr. Keating

In the reply read for me by the Minister for Transport and Power it says:

Some further reductions are expected before the company's operations can be stabilised. The Industrial Development Authority are working closely with the company in assisting it through the current difficulties.

The position is that that answer was given on the 21st January last. Whereas Deputy Daly has said: "within a week of the 21st of January", the Receiver was put in on the 13th of February, and my information is that that factory is not closed but is functioning. Now is that true or not true?

Mr. Daly

That is completely untrue.

Mr. Keating

There is nobody working in that factory at all?

Mr. Daly

Not at all.

Mr. Keating

When did they cease to work in it?

Mr. Daly

Within about a week of my having the question down to the Minister. It just proves how unfamiliar is the Minister with the situation.

Mr. Keating

I depend on the brief I am given. The Deputy said: "Within a week of the 21st of January." I am informed that the Receiver was put in on the 13th February, which is three weeks later and that, in the meantime, the workforce has been reduced to 15. That is a quotation from my brief. One or other of us is wrong.

Mr. Daly

The Minister is completely wrong. The plant is closed.

Mr. Keating

I am satisfied that the Deputy is confusing——

Mr. Daly

It is the Minister who is confused.

Mr. Keating

All right, but the factory that was totally closed was the factory manufacturing typewriters.

Mr. Daly

The two of them are totally closed.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have orderly debate by question and answer of this kind.

Mr. Keating

The Deputy ought to know this better than I since he resides there. But the statement: "Within a week of that assurance the place had closed down" is simply untrue. It was put on to the record knowingly, by Deputy Daly today.

Mr. Daly

The Minister did not answer the question and that is why I asked that it be raised on the Adjournment Debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy.

Mr. Keating

And the basis was that knowing untruth that he put on to the record today because, when he said that, and when he went on to say: "Is he not aware of that", since what he said was in conflict with my brief, I was not aware of it——

Mr. Daly

The Minister——

An Ceann Comhairle

Order, please. I must ask Deputy Daly to desist from interrupting.

Mr. Keating

And the Deputy's justification for raising this on the Adjournment was——

Mr. Daly

It is the Minister who is provoking this argument, not me.

Mr. Keating

We have a conflict of fact, and we can resolve the fact. Fortunately, what we say is on the record. When the Deputy—I am quoting from the unrevised record—said today: "Within a week of that assurance the place had closed down"— and he repeated it now and he questioned the veracity of Ministerial replies on the basis that that could happen—I suggest to the Deputy that that was not true; that he knew it was not true and that he obtained this debate on the basis of that untruth.

Mr. Daly

Does the Minister believe the place is still open then?

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy persists I shall have to ask him to leave the House.

Mr. Daly

If the Minister would desist——

An Ceann Comhairle

I would ask that perhaps the Minister might not invite interruptions and that the Deputy will desist interrupting.

Mr. Daly

I will certainly desist. But the Minister does not have an answer no more than does he know what is happening there.

An Ceann Comhairle

That must be the end of it.

Mr. Keating

I reiterate that I believe—and we can check out who is right or not, because it is on the record —that that sentence: "Within a week of that assurance the place had closed down" is untrue; that Deputy Daly knew it was untrue, and that he obtained this Adjournment Debate on the basis of that knowledge. That is an abuse of the procedures of this House. I think perhaps he did it fumblingly at the time, because he had not thought his way through it. Then he had not the courage, in the interval, either to call off this Adjournment Debate or else to clarify the position when he rose for his 20 minutes.

The sentence stands on the record. We shall see. Deputy Daly has read information on to the record. I have to depend on my briefing. As I say, we shall see in due course who is right and who is wrong. But I am satisfied that that is an abuse of the House. I am satisfied it is an abuse of the facility offered to Deputies to raise matters on the Adjournment. I do not take Deputy Daly seriously enough to differentiate against any part of his constituency on the basis of silly allegations that he may make. But he must know that there are many people, in many offices and many organisations, who will simply get cross at this sort of lighthearted accusation and that, without anybody intending it—and certainly I do not take him seriously enough either way; I would be ashamed to take him seriously enough to do any——

Mr. Daly

1,500 people who are without jobs take it seriously.

An Ceann Comhairle

How often does the Chair have to appeal for order?

Mr. Keating

When Deputy Daly was in the course of subsiding at the end of Question Time he was egged on by the people around him to raise it on the Adjournment. Now we have the circumstance that he has not even enough self-restraint to allow me to use my time, which is half as much as his, without continuous interruption.

Mr. Daly

The Minister——

Mr. Keating

There is another one now—the complete determination not to acknowledge the facts, not to be square about them and not even to have enough self-restraint to allow me to make my side of the case.

Mr. Daly

That is pure nonsense.

Mr. Keating

This is an abuse of Parliament. It is an abuse of Parliament which is bad for the Deputy's constituents. It is bad for any reputation that he may have as a serious Parliamentarian. It is bad for the decent, proper functioning of the various organs of State which are concerned with bringing industrial jobs to different parts of this country in need of them. If people cannot use the opportunities offered by an Adjournment Debate seriously, then the whole thing is brought into discredit and disrepute.

In my answers today I gave some indications about matters in the course of discussion. I do not propose to amplify them. I have got such lighthearted, frivolous and generally trouble-making treatment——

Mr. Daly

The Minister has not a clue.

Mr. Keating

In reply to the answer I gave already today, if I get serious questions of a parliamentary kind designed to elicit information, I have been and will be cooperative. But when I get this sort of fishing in troubled waters, the desire to do damage, the confusion of fact——

Mr. Daly

The damage has been done already.

Mr. Keating

——and the absolute refusal to acknowledge that confusion; the simple use of an adjournment debate in an effort to prolong the evening, and continuous interruption of an adjournment debate——

Mr. Daly

The Minister is just marking time because he has no other reply to give.

Mr. Keating

When the Deputy has not the courage to listen quietly in reply to his foolish and irresponsible onset, when we see parliament being abused in that way, we can only regret the inadequacies of the Opposition and of the Deputy. But we can assure him that, as far as we are concerned, his foolishness will not damage his constituents. It is possible that that sort of foolishness will bring damage to them from other directions.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 15th May, 1975.