Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 17 Jun 1975

Vol. 282 No. 4

Private Members' Business. - EEC Regional Fund: Motion.

I move.

That Dáil Éireann deplores the Government's expressed intention of using the EEC Regional Fund to recoup past expenditure to the Exchequer and demands that the Fund be used to finance a special regional development programme in the less developed parts of the country.

To consider this Motion in its proper perspective, I would suggest one has to go back a few years to the campaign that was waged in preparation for the referendum on entry into the EEC. It cannot be denied that in that campaign we, in Fianna Fáil, and the Fine Gael Party also, campaigned on the basis that one of the advantages which would accrue to this country by entry into the EEC was that there would be a regional fund which would assist, and we hoped substantially, the development of the less-developed areas of this country and, in particular, the western part of the country. I do not think anybody can deny that was the basis on which both the Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael Parties campaigned. The Labour Party, of course, campaigned against entry into the EEC and some of their speakers indicated their lack of faith in the prospect of a regional fund being set up or, if it were set up, of its being any way effective. Had it been known at that time that when the fund was set up the Government of the day would propose to snaffle the money to reimburse the Exchequer, nobody could have campaigned in favour of the EEC on the basis of a regional fund and, indeed, the Labour Party would have been right. I do not know what has been happening now since one was set up— whether it is a consequence of the Labour Party's attitude, which I have perhaps proved was right in regard to the regional fund, or whether the Fine Gael Party have forgotten what it promised to the people during that referendum campaign.

In the last few years both sides in this House have complained at the delay in the setting up of the regional fund and, when it was eventually set up, at the smallness of the fund. I do not think any of us could have made any case at all for the setting up of this fund had we known at that time what was proposed to be done with the fund, had we known that our share, when it came, would go into the Exchequer to reimburse and recoup the Exchequer for expenditure already committed, apparently for the purpose of easing the Government's budgetary problems. The Irish Independent on 14th April, 1975, quoted an extract from a letter written by the Minister for Finance to a county council in which he said that actual payments from the fund in respect of approved projects will be on the basis of part recoupment on the scale of expenditure already undertaken by the member State. Whatever arguments there may be about the letter of the EEC Directive in regard to the regional fund there cannot be any argument in regard to the spirit of it. Regulation No. 724/75 of the 18th March, 1975, states that whereas the fund's assistance should not lead member States to reduce their own regional development efforts, it should complement these efforts. To reinforce that I should like to refer to something which was stated in the European Parliament on 29th April, 1975, by the Commissioner in charge of Regional Policy, Mr. George Thomson. He said that there is the quite separate question and a very important one as to whether contributions from the Community's Regional Development Fund should be additional to the total resources made available for regional policy by member States.

In the preamble of the regulation it is made clear that the member States commit themselves to the general proposition that the totality of resources should be additional; that this has always been the Commission's view. Mr. Thomson continued that as he had stated many times there is no case for a Community Regional Development Fund unless in the end it means that additional resources are made available to help with the regional problems.

I would suggest that the regulation and the clear-cut and reiterated view of the commissioner for regional policy made it quite clear what the spirit of this directive is, that is, that the money available to each country under the regional fund should be additional to and not in substitution for State expenditure.

In a letter also to The Irish Independent, written by the Minister for Finance, and appearing in that paper on 15th April, 1975, the Minister said:

... In fact it is understood that a majority of member States will opt to use fund assistance in part repayment to their exchequers of expenditure on State aids rather than apply it to increase the level of aid granted to some individual projects.

I have been making some inquiries about this matter and the information I have been able to get from Brussels does not correspond with that statement by the Minister. The information available to me suggests that France is proposing to add a percentage to the existing level of grants in its regions, that Italy proposes to develop and identify entirely new projects and to devote all of the fund to these which are largely infrastructural. Germany, in respect of the small part of the fund which it will receive, is likely to devote it to touristic and infrastructural projects which are so far unplanned but which they propose to put into effect with the regional fund money.

If the proposal of the Minister for Finance as indicated in the letter to the county council to which I referred is to be put into effect, is there any way in which it can be established that the regional fund is being used additionally to State aids and not in substitution for them? There are certain provisions built into the regulations which are designed to prevent this, provisions such as obliging the State concerned to inform the recipient of the amount of the money coming from the regional fund, and the publication, at six-monthly intervals, of projects assisted by the fund. Nevertheless it would be very easy for any Government if they chose to do so, to conceal what they are really doing and present projects which were getting aid from the regional fund as if additional moneys were being made available when in fact the money was simply being used to ease budgetary problems. For instance, in what way can it be established that the level of State aid would not have been lower or higher or at the same level in the absence of the regional fund? I suggest there is no way in which this can be done, that this is open to a complete sleight-of-hand operation. The indications given by the Minister for Finance so far are that that is precisely what he intends to do, that he intends to engage in this sleight-of-hand operation.

We, on this side of the House, made commitments to the people in the referendum on the EEC. So did the Fine Gael members of the Government. For our part we shall do anything we can to ensure that those commitments are honoured. I would suggest that the clearest and most unambiguous way of honouring those commitments is by the setting up of a separate regional fund for development here and making quite clear which money is coming from the EEC and which money is coming from the State into that fund. It should be kept separate from existing funds which have existed and will continue to exist in the future whether or not there is an EEC Regional Fund.

A number of officials in the Commission in Brussels are particularly anxious that projects should be identified and brought forward immediately to the Commission. They make no secret of the fact that assistance, over and above State assistance, is the key to the spirit of the fund.

An example of one possible approach to this matter is if a firm were to get an industrial grant of £100,000. In theory the Government could recoup £50,000 of that money from Brussels. In that case they are obliged to inform the recipient of the grant that he is getting £50,000 from the regional fund. I think it is clear that the fact that the beneficiary is getting half the grant from Brussels will not make the money any more exciting or useful so far as he is concerned. Nor are the people in the region concerned likely to feel any particular gratitude to the EEC as a result. It was always intended from the EEC point of view that it would be quite clear to the regions that they were benefiting from membership of the Community and, in particular, from the funds.

It is, of course, true that our share of the fund at the moment is quite small. We are in a three-year trial period. That is very important and the Government ought not lose sight of it. If, at the end of that three-year trial period, what will emerge is that the country which had the greatest need for the regional fund and which, because of that, per capita, got by far the highest allocation, simply used the fund to reimburse the money to the Exchequer, then I suggest that the Governments of Germany and the Netherlands, who were the main contributors to this, will inevitably say: “Well, that is not what the fund was for, and we do not see why money ought to be paid by us merely to ease the budgeting problems of the Government in Ireland.” There is a grave danger if this matter is not handled properly, that that will be the result at the end of the three-year period.

The Minister for Finance recently indicated that he expected about £4 million would be transferred in this year. I must confess I find it difficult to share his optimism in that regard, having regard firstly to the fact that projects would need to be forwarded to Brussels within a matter of weeks in order that any grants could be made from the fund this year, and also our experience from the FEOGA guidance money, which was allocated to us in 1973, and has not been received yet, is not too encouraging. The important thing I suggest is this: however small the fund may be at the moment, and however much delay there may be in receiving the money and getting the scheme going, it is vitally important that we get off on the right foot now and establish the methods and precedents which will enable a real case to be made, and push for the establishment of a much bigger and more effective regional fund to follow the three-year trial period in which we are now.

I suggest that when the Parliamentary Secretary, who is standing in for the Minister on this, speaks in this debate he should state clearly what type of schemes will be submitted by the Minister for financing from the regional fund in Brussels, having regard to the fact especially that existing projects are already the subject of commitments by the Government and are covered by the Government's published estimates.

One other matter I want to mention in passing is to refer to a comment that the Minister for Finance made when he stated that the Council of Ministers recently indicated in reply to a question in the European Parliament that the intentions of the Irish Government are contrary neither to the legality nor the spirit of the regional fund. I know some observers in Europe, and, indeed, quite a number in this country, who know what the score is are cynically amused at the Minister's statement, knowing that that statement, which he attributed to the Council of Ministers, was, of course, a statement made in response to a question in the European Parliament by none other than the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Garret FitzGerald. As presented by the Minister for Finance, it was given a good deal more weight on a European level, or he would have us believe that it had such, than it was entitled to.

I have given the reason for the indications that the Government intend to use the regional fund moneys only as a reimbursement to itself of expenditure already incurred or committed. As I said, this indicates an intention simply to use the fund to ease the Government's budgetary difficulties. It has always been the intention of the EEC that the funds should be used to supplement national aid for the regions. I know that, in the case of this country, the Commission have been impressed by what has already been done in the way of regional development, but it has also been persuaded that the resources available to us are not sufficient to see industry and industry-associated infrastructure projects develop at a faster rate. It was with a view to creating additional jobs at a quicker pace that all of the State was considered eligible for regional fund aids. As I said earlier, the allocation to this country was, on a per capita by far the highest in the Community.

The Industrial Development Authority in its end of the year statement issued on the 1st January, 1975, indicated that £10 million would be paid by the Authority to Irish industrialists expanding or modernising their industries during the year 1975. Assuming that the 1975 regional development fund allocation to Ireland were to be spent equally between infrastructure and industry projects, there would then be the possibility of increasing approximately by half the IDA grant to these native Irish industries undertaking expansion programmes.

Indeed, previous experience with other EEC funds has been along these lines. In the case of food processing industries, who will have already received aid from the national authorities, usually the IDA, grants have also been payable by the guidance section of the EAGGF in Brussels. By the end of the summer, grants totalling approximately £8½ million should have been approved to Irish farms from this source. In the case of training activities, grants totalling approximately £18 million have already been approved to Ireland. In the case of projects submitted by the private sector grants have been payable both by the national authorities here and the Social Fund itself.

In regard to Irish industry and the possibility of getting it to invest and expand, we all know that rising costs and smaller markets are making survival for industry extremely difficult at the moment. The possibility of channelling regional fund moneys to companies with development plans must be considered. At a time of financial stringency, larger grants may well be necessary to ensure that these investments are undertaken. Indeed, the Government have acknowledged that the cash flow position of a number of Irish companies is a major problem and is likely to remain so during this year, if not next year.

The Central Bank report has emphasised, particularly in certain sectors in industry, that there are very serious liquidity problems. The same report went further in stressing that in the case of some firms, because their difficulties were due to the combined effects on their cash flow of stagnant demand for products, falling profits, and the adverse effects of taxation, their basic problems were not capable of being solved by an increase in bank credit. There is a clear-cut shortfall in internal cash flow in industry which the Confederation of Irish Industries some time ago estimated to be approximately £60 million in this year.

In the light of all these circumstances, and the fact that many firms are in such a position that even with credit available they cannot take it up, there may very well be a strong case for considering increased grants to induce Irish industries to expand in the less-developed parts of this country.

I suggest that the allocation from the regional fund, coupled with the measures which the Government might take in ease of industry, would go a long way towards easing this problem. If, however, as the Minister for Finance has argued, the percentage grants available are already high enough and should not be increased, if that argument is true, and I will not go into detail on it at the moment because I do not think it would be relevant, clearly there are many urgently needed infrastructural projects to which the whole of our part of the regional fund could be devoted, in conjunction, of course, with expenditure by the Government.

Speaking recently to the Economic and Social Committee of the EEC, the Deputy Director General of the Department responsible for regional policy in Brussels stated that the council were aware that considerable grants were necessary to attract business to the least-favoured regions, that being particularly true, as I indicated, in present economic circumstances. It was for this reason, he said, that the council have decided to increase the maximum rate of grant payable from Brussels from 15 to 20 per cent. Of course, to justify such a grant, the amount of the grant from the Government would have to increase from 30 to 40 per cent.

In the light of all this, it is all the more surprising that the Department of Finance, on behalf of the Government, should have indicated in their statements that the Government are to consider the resources from the regional fund as a reimbursement to the Government of expenditure already incurred or committed. In the light of that, one is entitled to ask whether the basic objective of the fund is being changed, and whether the fund is now to become a tool of budgetary policy or monetary policy. There was in the past and, indeed, to some extent it still remains, tremendous enthusiasm in under-developed areas of the Community and in particular in under-developed parts of this country for what the regional fund might offer. It seems clear that, unless there is a change in policy as indicated by the Minister for Finance, the only direct beneficiary from the arrival of the regional fund will be the coffers of the Department of Finance.

One local authority which inquired from the Department of Finance about how the regional fund was to be used got, as I indicated earlier, a detailed reply, which ended by suggesting that projects which were to be the subject of applications for regional fund aid should be submitted through the appropriate Government Department. In the light of the Government's proposal, as indicated by the Minister for Finance, to snaffle this money, what is the point in a local authority making any application under the regional fund, because the whole thing is, apparently, going back to the Government and we are as we were, with systems operating as before and any money coming in simply going to ease the budgetary pressure on the Government for the financing of things like industrial development or infrastructual development?

Of course, one thing that has been highlighted very much by all of this is the fact that the Government have no regional policy whatever. The previous Government did a great deal of work in developing a regional policy and implemented it in a number of areas as, indeed, is illustrated very clearly by the fact that when one hears downtalk about saving the west, largely one hears it in relation to a quite restricted area, whereas at one time it meant virtually anywhere west of the Shannon. That is a fair indication of what was done in practical terms.

I do not say the previous Government had a final blueprint for a regional policy. We had gone a long way towards producing it. Various studies were under way. One of the factors involved in finalising it was the benefit which could accrue and the extent of it from the EEC Regional Fund. We do not hear anything from the Government, and have not heard anything from them, about the development of a regional policy, about what they intend to do in relation to those, perhaps by many people, longforgotten recommendations of the Buchanan Report and indeed subsequent developments.

I suppose that a Government who have not got a regional policy at all and apparently have not thought about the subject, might be tempted to take the easy way out and, when the EEC Regional Fund becomes available, simply to say: "Right, we will put that into the Exchequer and that will help us to pay for the various items we have to pay for—the IDA and road works and sewerage, and so on." It is not good enough in the light of the undertakings given. It is not good enough in the light of the requirements of the fund, and the spirit in which the fund was set up. It is not good enough in the light of the case we made to Brussels and to the EEC for the setting up of a large regional fund. It is not good enough, I would suggest, in the light of the requirements of the people of this country and, in particular, it is not good enough in the light of the enormous damage it may do to the possible development of the fund in future, having regard, as I said, to the fact that we are now in a three-year trial period as far as the EEC and the regional fund are concerned, unless we show clearly and unequivocally in that period that we can and do make use of that fund to do worthwhile regional development, supplementing the efforts of the Government, there is the gravest danger that there will be no regional fund in a few years' time in the EEC. If that happens, then a policy such as was indicated by the Minister for Finance will have contributed very substantially to the disappearance of the EEC Regional Fund.

I would like to know and I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to indicate whether any projects have yet been submitted by the Government for payments from the EEC Regional Fund and, if not, when will projects be submitted for that purpose? Also since such projects are presumably already committed as far as the Government are concerned, and since the amount of money from the Government to aid them is committed, I should like to know what is proposed to be done in regard to the payments from the fund in relation to such projects?

Is it proposed to use the money from the fund in relation to such projects to add to the aid being given and already committed by the Government, and thereby to increase the amount of aid available? Alternatively is what is proposed mere recoupment to the Exchequer? I call on the Parliamentary Secretary to give a firm unambiguous commitment to the setting-up of a clearly separate regional fund to aid the less-developed parts of this country especially in the west. Anything other than that is, I would strongly urge on the Parliamentary Secretary, merely reneging on the clear understanding which was given to the people—I would go further and say the clear promises that were given to the people —by both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael in the EEC referendum. Not alone is a failure to set up such a fund a reneging on those promises but it is also, and cannot be described as anything else but, a fraud on the people, particularly those in the poorer parts of the country who deserve better than to be subjected to these promises and then have the promises reneged on because the Government find themselves in financial difficulty.

If the people are to benefit from the EEC Regional Fund, even to the limited extent that is available now, and if we are to do our part to ensure that the permanent, long-term EEC Regional Fund is set up and set up on an adequate basis, then we must demonstrate now and the Government must demonstrate now, their good faith and their determination to ensure that there is here a regional fund aided directly and clearly from the EEC Regional Fund, a fund which will be used either to supplement industrial grants or Irish firms in the less-developed part of this country and/or the financing of urgently needed infrastructural development if the less-developed areas are to have a hope of getting on their feet.

The Parliamentary Secretary knows as well as I do that there are major infrastructural works needed if certain parts of this country are to have a chance to develop properly. We must, I believe, use the EEC Regional Fund to demonstrate that this is the kind of thing which gives us a de-cently-sized fund for which we are getting really big sums to develop the poorer regions and enable this country to take its place fully in the EEC and to subscribe fully to an integrated monetary policy in the future, a thing we cannot do until we develop this country. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will be able, on behalf of the Government, to make such a firm and unambiguous commitment and that he will be able to put on the record of the House that the Government have now decided that they are not going to use the money from the EEC fund to reduce budgetary difficulties at the expense of the poorest people in this country.

I wish to speak as a Labour Party member who, as Deputy Colley will recall, favoured, on balance, the entry of this country into the EEC.

I am sorry, I had forgotten that.

Yes, indeed, and one does suffer for one's beliefs. At that time I was not under the slightest illusion about some of the euphoric propaganda that emanated from many political quarters in relation to the EEC Regional Fund and the prospects that were held out for this country at that time. I also speak in this debate as a member of the Joint Committee of both Houses of the Oireachtas on EEC Secondary Legislation and, as such, I have received a good deal of documentation in relation to the regional fund. It certainly baffles my imagination that Deputy Colley should suggest that the regional fund in this country is going to mean, if I may quote his words, "a worthwhile regional development in Ireland". The fact of the matter is, and I think it has to be placed and kept always in the forefront of our economic perspective of the £4 million that it is a mere, if I may use the term .87 per cent, much less than 1 per cent of the country's capital programme. Deputy Colley knows that our current capital programme is in the region of £460 million.

It is not for me to speculate to what extent that capital programme will increase this year but on the assumption that it may well increase, one can say that all the implications are that in terms of a contribution to the public capital programme this year, the EEC Regional Fund, the glorious fund which was to solve all Ireland's regional problems according to Fianna Fáil if we were to enter the EEC at the time—I think much of the talk was grossly exaggerated—will have paid less than one-half of 1 per cent of a contribution to the nation's public capital programme by the end of 1975. That is what we are debating in this motion tonight.

No, it is not.

That is the first point. Deputy Colley talks about the Government's expressed intention of using the regional fund to recoup past expenditure. We are talking about one aspect of public expenditure, namely, the public capital programme. Let us be clear about that. We are talking about individual aid to individual projects which I would certainly hope to come to later on. I would suggest, with respect to Deputy Colley, that because there has been a little unsophisticated hysteria in the case of a few journalists about what the Minister intends to do about the regional fund or the uses to which he intends to put it—largely from EEC journalists who must have little else to do if they can think up a few scare stories about the use of the £4 million— Deputy Colley has been quite cynically mischievous in trying to interpret the Government's intention in this regard. He is rather ill-informed, and I think he is a bit propagandistic.

Our approach is entirely above board. As one who has a deep personal interest in the EEC affairs in this country I have examined some of the relevant documents. I have examined the regulation of 18th March, 1975, regulation 724 of 1975, establishing the regional development fund. First of all I think one must examine that regulation. Secondly, I have studied carefully the original reply, of the Minister for Finance to the Dáil Adjournment Debate of 23rd April which was somewhat analogous to this debate. I have particularly examined statements made to this country by a spokesman for the Commission of the European Communities on 30th May, 1975 and that has been on public record. Then I think one should also examine in relation to the future the very recent statements made by Commissioner George Thomson, the Commissioner for Regional Policy, to the European Parliament Committee of Regional Policy and Transport made only six or seven days ago, on 10th June. Any examination of these documents will show that the Government's approach is entirely above board, is not in any way a surreptitious attempt to grab £4 million because the Government may have severe budgetary revenue problems.

May I suggest to Deputy Colley that if the Government had to depend on the £4 million from the EEC Regional Fund to ease our budgetary problems we would indeed be a Government not suffering undue perturbation. Indeed I would suggest to Deputy Colley that if the £4 million were all that we were facing in regard to the budgetary problem, the problem would be soluble quite rapidly. I would suggest to Deputy Colley that here there is a clear implication first of all on the qualifying investment which would be undertaken in our country eligible for investment, and one must refer to article 4 of the Regulation.

We do know that assistance may be available for investment which exceeds £20,000 odd and £21,000 and which is as follows: (a) industrial handicraft or service activities which either create ten new jobs or maintain existing employment—there are very clear-cut criteria there—(b) investible infrastructure directly linked with (a) or which is an essential pre-condition of such activity—again it is pretty coherent; (c) investible infrastructure covered by the Council Directive on mountain or hill farming and farming in less-favoured regions, that is, access to farm electricity and drinking water, sewerage and so on. These are the particular qualifying investments and assistance may be given to these projects.

We also know full contribution to industrial handicraft or service conditions will be 20 per cent of the investment cost or 50 per cent of national aid to the project by public authorities, whichever is the lesser. In the case of the infrastructure cost investment, the fund will contribute up to a maximum of 30 per cent of expenditure incurred by public authorities. It is a pre-condition of assistance that the State must participate in the financing of projects. Again we are aware of that situation. For every pound they receive from the fund, the State must put up at least another pound for investment in industry, handicraft and services and £2.33 for investment in infrastructure. I do not think that in the approach of the Government there has been any clear-cut assessment such as Deputy Colley assumed. There has been no clear-cut statement by the Government whatsoever that the Exchequer will retain the assistance received from the fund for general expense purposes. No shred of evidence is available in public or in private to my knowledge, or to the Commissioner, Mr. George Thomson, that this in fact is going to be the exclusive policy of the Government, that we should retain exclusively assistance from the fund for general tax purposes. In fact, the opposite is the case, and I suggest to Deputy Colley and to some of the Fianna Fáil spokesmen that they are being very selective, very mischievous, in suggesting this because it is creating doubts in the minds of some Commission staff —it certainly creates public confusion —that this might be the case.

In fact the assistance received from the fund will be used to finance additional industrial and infrastructural investment in the areas of greatest need which, as the Minister indicated in his reply on the Adjournment Debate in the Dáil of 23rd April last, consisted mainly of the designated areas. This is a clear indication of policy on the part of the Government. How much longer do we have to say in public, how more frequently do we save to say to Fianna Fáil, that the counties which would mainly benefit from the regional fund are Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Longford, Cavan, Monaghan, Galway, Mayo, Clare, Kerry, parts of Limerick and parts of Cork? It is a mischievous suggestion on the part of Deputy Colley to suggest that we are going simply to put this in the pocket of some mandarin within the Department of Lands who will carefully launder the fund, to use the Watergate expression. It will be carefully laundered into the general budget strategy of the Department of Finance and will never have an impact on the designated areas of this country. That is patently false.

With respect to Deputy Colley as a former Minister for Finance, I would say to him that to make the charge is doing damage to this country in Brussels——

I am only quoting the Minister.

The Deputy was not quoting the Minister. I can say clearly to the former Minister that when these charges were made and when the Government sought and got emphatic reassurance from Brussels, we had a statement by the spokesman of the EEC Commission, and I will read it into the record here. It states:

Reports in certain Irish newspapers today regarding a meeting between representatives of the Associated Chambers of Commerce of Ireland and officials of the Commission may give the erroneous impression that the Commission is not satisfied with the system which the Irish Government proposes to adopt in applying the assistance of the Regional Fund.

This has particular relevance to Deputy O'Kennedy. He knows some of the people whom I am talking about who came back to this country and made charges which were false and damaging and ill-informed and, furthermore, mischievous, in my opinion. For example, if I may quote——

If I may quote as well as Deputy Desmond does, if that is what he means. That is fair enough.

The spokesman for the EEC Commission says:

the Commission have been informed of the intention of the Irish Government to use fund aid to increase the total level of regional development investment in Ireland.

There is the crunch.

There is nothing obscure about the point at all. The Commission notes that:

this intention is in conformity with the principal purpose of the Regional Fund——

I would underline that to Deputy Colley——

which is to increase the volume of public expenditure in the regions by the amount represented by the fund.

I use the words "in the regions". Therefore, I think the picture will become clear, and it will become very clear in the near future. It will become very clear when there unfolds, as undoubtedly there will unfold, the fact that at the moment the Government —and Deputy Colley, I think, asked the Parliamentary Secretary about this—have suitable projects to meet the criteria which I outlined. These projects are at present being selected by the Government. The Government are in charge of regional development policy. With respect to Deputy Colley and the great Buchanan of which he sat on for four years——

Oh, no, we did something.

There was hell in the Fianna Fáil Front Bench because of it.

What have you done about it? You have not mentioned a word about it since?

I was blue in the face sitting over there in the second bench opposite while parliamentary questions were being asked as to what was being done about the report.

Those questions were to Deputy Colley but between Deputy Neil Blaney crucifying him from the North and Deputy John O'Leary crucifying him from the South, he sat on it and did nothing because he was afraid that the Fianna Fáil Party might discover they had a regional policy so the best thing to do was nothing.

That is absolute rot.

I am not in any way suggesting that this Government have resolved the regional conflicts. In so far as the Government have had an opportunity, suitable projects to meet the criteria of the regional fund are at present being selected in consultation with the other Government Departments and, I would stress, with the other agencies involved. These projects will be submitted and will receive the minimal effect of the expenditure of the fund. If these projects were to depend exclusively on the regional fund, not many of them would get off the ground or be supplemented to that extent. These projects will become known in due course.

It is important to point out—there is a dangerous situation here—that if the special pleading of the Fianna Fáil Party escalates further to create the impression that this country, as a whole, is no longer an undeveloped, relatively speaking, region in Europe, then some people in Brussels may ask questions which Fianna Fáil might not wish to answer. I would point out to Fianna Fáil—here there is a serious difficulty facing the Government that a relatively high percentage share of the fund's resources for the years 1975, 1976 and 1977, relatively high in terms of other countries, although still very low in total amount, is based on the general premise that the whole of the Republic is a less-developed region of the Community; that the population and the needs of the whole of the Republic should be taken into account in determining our share.

Therefore, is Deputy Colley putting forward the view, because I would be extremely interested in resolving this conflict with him, that the totality of the fund——

What conflict is this?

The conflict suggested by Deputy Colley's approach that, in effect, the totality of the expenditure should be on a purely regional basis, internally in this country, given, perhaps to very selected regions. Perhaps Deputy Colley, in his well-known preoccupation with the infrastructural problems of the west would suggest that the totality of allocations should go exclusively to that area. How does he reconcile that Fianna Fáil approach with the national approach, which I now understand is agreed between all three political parties, that the whole of Ireland shall be treated as a less-developed region, that, therefore, as I am sure Deputy Colley would appreciate, it would be necessary that some projects in the eastern region may have to be included and may have to get consideration in the allocation of this fund if we are to maintain the principle that the nation as a whole is a less-developed region.

It does not follow and the Deputy should know that.

Therefore, Fianna Fáil would want to be very careful in some of the more special pleadings they have made because they could very seriously affect the national interest from 1977 onwards when the conditions governing the granting of further assistance will be decided.

I would conclude that the selection of a particular project for assistance will not, therefore, increase the level of aid already being paid to that project. Rather will it be the means of obtaining assistance from the fund to increase our total industrial and infrastructural investment effort, particularly in the less-developed regions. This is the criteria which should be used.

We are talking in terms of allocation strategy, talking, perhaps, in a rather academic and theoretical sense, because this Dáil motion is a piece of theoretical, political, polemical rhetoric on the part of Fianna Fáil. Strictly speaking, the motion could be about anything one would want to read into it. If one takes the sensible approach of Deputies Flanagan, Callanan or Leonard one knows how far in terms of Mayo £250,000 would go in the impact of the infrastructural needs of that particular county or in terms of cross-Border industrial projects how far £250,000 would go in Monaghan. That is leaving out all the other counties I have mentioned and the Deputy now expects 25 per cent of the fund for just two counties.

In the near future, when the projects have been selected, we shall see a real measure of the Government's clear commitment to regional development within Ireland as a whole as a less-developed region. I have the greatest confidence in a Minister such as Deputy Ryan who is under no delusions about the impact of the fund——

I thought the Minister for Finance was under no delusion as to the extent of the confidence the Deputy has in the Minister but that is another matter.

If Deputy Ryan were to go round the country waving his £4-million bag of the regional fund he would be locked up in the nearest psychiatric, political hospital. It is only 0.87 per cent of the total expenditure of the public capital programme. For Deputy Colley to talk about the role of the IDA, I suggest, with respect, that he have a talk with the managing director and ask him what they expect in terms of the impact of the regional fund on even——

£10 million this year for Irish industry——

——the projects they have in mind for the west of Ireland. For all its inadequacies, the money will be spent in the national interest. It will be spent by the Minister for Finance in consultation with such outstanding Ministers as the Minister for the Gaeltacht. He would be interested in this and indeed fully encouraged by backbench Deputies such as myself and say: "Yes." Even if it is £3.8 million——

Do not damage the national interest. The Deputy might be suggesting that some should not go to Dún Laoghaire you know. That would be serious.

(Interruptions.)

I would suggest that the Opposition should read the latest progress report of Commissioner Thomson on 10th June to the European Parliament Committee. He has laid down a number of preliminaries which are important. In reply to his own question as to what exactly had been done since 29th April when the budget was adopted he said:

They had gone ahead with four essential preliminaries. First of all, in consultation with all the national Administrations we have prepared draft forms of application for regional development fund grants for the member states to fill in so that we can obtain the necessary information in a convenient standard lay-out in administrative detail but for the first time, I think, a new community financial instrument has had this element of systemisation right from the start. We were drawing up details for the proposed procedure for the handling and examining of applications within the Commission.

Deputy Colley may be interested to note that is a reply in a sense to the query as to what the Government were doing. That was very much in hand. The Commission since 29th April have been doing their work. Commissioner Thomson said he felt strongly that the paramount consideration should be speed and efficiency so that none could reproach the Commission with bureaucratic delays. Secondly, the Commission, he said, will examine allocations conscientiously. If I may quote the provisions of the regulations:...

I intervene to say the Deputy has two minutes left.

I would suggest that in no way will this country indulge in—this was a very serious charge for Deputy Colley to make— a fraudulent application of the Regional Fund. The fund will be spent in accordance with the clear regulations laid down by the Commission. If I may quote Commissioner Thomson:

No Regional Development Fund grant may be made to any projects not encompassed by the rules or the regulations.

This country will follow the letter of the law.

That is reassuring.

Of course, but what happened to the money? Answer the question.

To suggest, as Deputy Colley suggests, that some Machiavellian Mandarin of the Department of Finance——

No, the Minister.

——indeed, Machiavellian Minister, if I may use the term, is going to get his paws on £4 million for his own purposes is quite frankly naïve. It shows a great lack of confidence on his part in the ability of the regional development Commissioner in the Community to know precisely what people are up to. These people will see the projects selected by the Government for the regional areas. The areas are now well known and well designated and the money will go into these areas and be spent in those areas because this Government have, to my knowledge, spent more money on regional development and construction in these areas and to suggest otherwise, as Deputy Colley is suggesting, is in fact a vote of "no confidence" in my fellow Labour colleague, Commissioner George Thomson, whom I have met——

Mr. Kennedy

It is reassuring that the Deputy has met him. All our troubles will soon be over now.

It is the Minister we do not trust.

We have every confidence in Commissioner Thomson that the money will be spent here in the national interest.

If I may repeat the terms of the Motion, they are:

That Dáil Éireann deplores the Government's expressed intention of using the EEC Regional Fund to recoup past expenditure to the Exchequer and demands that the Fund be used to finance a special regional development programme in the less-developed parts of the country.

I think that Deputy George Colley has done the House, and all of us who are interested in regional development, a great service by bringing forward this Motion. I congratulate him on his opening speech in which he gave expression to the fears felt by all of us, who have an interest in regions in general and some regions in particular, as a result of certain statements made by the Minister for Finance. I am, like Deputy Barry Desmond, a member of the joint committee of both Houses and I have no doubt about Deputy Desmond's sincerity in everything that he says but I do want to put it to you, sir, that we, in the West of Ireland, have no reason, in the middle of 1975, to trust a Dublin oriented Government and, in particular, we have no reason to trust the present Minister for Finance. The people down the country would not be calling Deputy Richie Ryan a Machiavellian Minister, they would be calling him things in much blunter and less-sophisticated language. It is very necessary, indeed, that assurances on this matter of the use of EEC funds should be given by those responsible; in this connection I look forward to the intervention of Deputy Henry Kenny, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance, later on in this debate.

We are all waiting for that.

The Deputies opposite are all waiting for that.

May I say that, if the Parliamentary Secretary gives this House certain assurances, there will be a great deal more trust put in what he says than in what will be said by the Minister he represents here now.

A Deputy

Hear, hear.

We believe that he would not make an irresponsible statement on this matter, which is very dear to his heart, as it is to mine, and to that of all who represent the under-developed areas. We know that, if he says this money will be used for the purpose for which it is intended, he will be sincere about it and that is more than we can say about the Minister. That is why I say it is most important that Deputy Colley should have so ably put forward this Motion. His speech was very disquieting indeed, disquieting to those of us who have been for so long looking forward to the assistance of Europe in the development of the industrial, economic, agricultural, social and general structure of the west of Ireland in particular.

He asked for a clear and unambiguous undertaking from the Minister—it is the least to which we, in this House, are entitled—and I also ask for a clear and unequivocal undertaking from the Minister for Finance that whatever meagre funds are available in the trial period will be used, and will be seen to be used, for the purposes for which they were intended. Most of us are grievously disappointed by the small level of the fund during this trial period.

Some of us should have taken the opportunity of saying to the people we addressed during the course of the EEC referendum campaign that at the time we were speaking honestly when we said that the creation of a regional fund, which would obviously benefit Ireland very greatly and the less well-off parts of the country in particular, was one of the most important reasons for advocating that they should vote "Yes". I am quite sure that a lot of people who voted "Yes" as a result of what we said, have since been disappointed (a) by the fact that it has taken so long for any fund to be created, (b) because the fund is being set up initially for a trial period only and (c) that the fund itself is minuscule.

I should like to say to those people: "We were sincere at that time. We are also disappointed that it has taken so long. We are equally disappointed that the fund is so small." The fund, nevertheless, has been created. Provided the Government use that fund properly, and is seen to be using it properly, then in due course a very much larger fund will we hope be created. It is vital to the people we represent that the Minister for Finance should be in a position to give the unequivocal undertakings which Deputy Colley and those of us who support him asked for.

Deputy Colley also asked for particulars of projects being considered. While Deputy Desmond says—and I accept that he means this—that the Government are considering projects at the present time, we would like the public to know where these projects are and their general nature. Obviously, we cannot be given information of a confidential nature. Obviously, it would be naïve to ask for particulars of individual firms, if they are involved. Surely we are entitled to know within which category the projects being considered by the Government lie, and in respect of which parts of the country these projects have been put forward. In that way we would be able to test the sincerity of the Government.

Deputy Desmond's sincerity in this matter is not in question. We do not doubt that he means what he says, but we do not know the source of his information. We do not know if he is speaking for the Minister for Finance, or simply believes that the things he says are happening are in fact taking place. We have to know that from the person responsible, as do the people who voted "Yes" and put such store by the prospect of help from Europe, to those parts of Europe about to join the Community which needed it most. That was one of the most persuasive arguments for joining the EEC, as will be obvious when one considers that approximately 90 per cent of the people of County Mayo voted in favour of our joining the EEC.

Deputy Desmond referred to the Buchanan Report. He implied rather than said, that our Government did not do enough in implementing a regional policy. It is only fair to say that the publication of the Buchanan Report did nothing to advance the development of a regional policy, certainly not one that would be of any advantage to the west of Ireland. There was bitter division about its proposals. There was bitter opposition to it. I was one of the people who opposed the Buchanan recommendations. The opposition to it was not confined to one political party. It was opposed in Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. It spread throughout informed opinion. It is not unfair to say that in so far as Deputy Colley, as Minister for Finance, was responsible for the development of an advanced regional policy, the Buchanan Report ultimately became a hindrance rather than a help.

Obviously a report of such major importance had to be the subject of serious public debate. The fact that there was bitter and reasoned opposition to most of the main propositions in that report must not be used as a reflection either on those who put forward this opposition or on Deputy Colley who had to listen to both sides before he could make up his mind what was the best policy to adopt.

Deputy Desmond assured the House that there was no question of the use of EEC regional funds to recoup Exchequer expenditure being the "exclusive policy of the Government". That is not what Deputy Colley asks. That is not what I am asking. I do not want it to be the exclusive policy of the Government nor to be any tiny part of the Government's policy. I shudder at the very idea that it might be even the minutest part of Government policy to divert funds in this fashion, funds that are so urgently needed for the purposes for which regional development was intended.

Deputy Desmond wound up by saying there had been great strides forward so far as regional development is concerned since the present Government were formed. I would put forward the absolute opposite proposition. I deny that this is so. I do not doubt Deputy Desmond's sincerity. As a Corkman he must know something about the country but he is a long time living in Dublin. I would respectfully suggest to him that the west of Ireland has not been developed but has been despoiled by the Government. Deputy Desmond might benefit if he visited Clare, Galway, Mayo, Sligo or Donegal for his holidays and asked the people what they think has or has not been done by the Dublin Government since March, 1973. He would then know whether the west of Ireland has been developed or despoiled.

This is not merely through lack of a coherent regional policy so far as the western areas are concerned. It goes deeper. The attitude is that of Dublin people who would much prefer to see the people of the west of Ireland on the dole and not working at all, and thus being mentally as well as physically despoiled. That is what this crowd of wretches are doing. They are destroying the desire and will of the people to be manly and to work. They are not providing the work for them. By the distribution of doles they are turning them into mental as well as physical cripples.

Let Deputy Desmond visit any part of the west of Ireland and listen to the people and he will soon find out whether or not the people of that area regard this Government as having been a source of development or help to them. The longer this Government last, the more the people of my area begin to realise that perhaps it is not their fault but that, as Dublin people, they simply do not understand either the mind or the outlook of the people of the west of Ireland or their needs.

Over the past 18 months we have been talking about capital gains tax and wealth tax and anything and everything which should be almost totally irrelevant to the actual situation in which the people living on the western seaboard find themselves. The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs may talk any nonsense he likes about a second television channel but the people of the west of Ireland do not give a damn about either one channel or the other except for very limited purposes. They would be very glad if somebody said to them: "Do you remember that time we were looking for votes during the EEC referendum? We promised that a regional fund would be set up and, as a result of that, you would have more industries created and more roads and sewers and water supplies created and we would be helped by Europe."

The people are prepared to put up with delays. They understand the reasons for the delay. They know why some of the major contributing countries began to get annoyed at the amount of money they were asking their own people to contribute. People are not unreasonable in their attitude to the delay and to the smallness of the fund. They are bitterly disappointed with this Government and in particular with the Minister for Finance who has totally diverted the minds and thoughts of the people to something which is basically irrelevant to them, discussions about wealth tax and capital gains tax. A farmer who is patiently waiting for his cheque from the creamery to pay his rates certainly is not particularly interested in wealth tax or capital gains tax. We do not accept that the Government have used the past two years to advance regional policy at all.

Debate adjourned.
Top
Share