Vol. 282 No. 6
I move:
That a sum not exceeding £41,035,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1975, for the salaries and expenses of the Garda Síochána, including pensions, etc.; for payments of compensation and other expenses arising out of service in the Local Security Force; for the payment of certain witnesses' expenses; and for payment of a grant-in-aid.
I want to raise the question of Garda accommodation along the Border areas. In the last five years gardaí have been drafted from stations where they were more or less permanently posted. Some of them are married members of the force and they are being put into barracks where there is no living accommodation. They have to find alternative accommodation in those areas. When they return from patrols they have to spend their time making out reports in stations which prior to this period catered for two or three gardaí in villages and rural areas. We have a situation where as many as 20 to 40 members of the force are now using these stations, working under very difficult conditions of employment. The dedicated way in which they do it is something which deserves our commendation. They are obliged to do this work in cramped conditions. I am not suggesting that anything could be done in regard to living accommodation but I am suggesting that the Minister for Justice should prevail on the Board of Works to provide temporary accommodation in prefabricated structures for a canteen, office accommodation and so on. I urge that this matter be dealt with immediately.
I can assure the Deputy that the Minister is concerned with the accommodation problems of all members of the Garda arising out of the special circumstances, of which the House is well aware, in the Boarder areas, which naturally impose some additional strain on the Garda. Members of the Garda in these conditions are not obliged to live in stations and they are paid a transfer allowance when they are living in the conditions so described.
The Minister has not given me any assurance that extra accommodation in prefabricated structures will be provided.
I understand discussions are proceeding with the Board of Works on that matter at this moment.
In what areas?
I cannot give particulars of the areas because I have not got them.
Would the Minister send them to me?
Yes, certainly.
I want to raise a very important question about the payment of garda superintendents. I understand that overtime payment in certain circumstances has been thrust on them and the superintendents have refused this form of payment. They wanted something quite different. Can the Minister say what is the present state of play with regard to that? Have the superintendents withdrawn from the negotiating position? They were perturbed that they were in charge of gardaí in a particular area and consequently it would be hardly conducive to good discipline if an inferior officer had to validate claims for overtime and so on. What has the Minister to say on that?
The commissioner is holding a discussion with the superintendents concerned at this moment and the Minister will not be in a position to make a statement about this matter until these discussions are completed.
Is the Minister holding discussions with the superintendents on this particular matter at the moment?
Yes. I cannot say he is holding them at this moment but the discussions are being held.
Can the Minister give any information on recruitment in the current year? When is it expected to have the next lot recruited and how many does the Minister expect to recruit? Will there be a reduction in the number as a result of the wardens being appointed?
The Deputy was not in at the end of the discussion yesterday.
I understand 125 additional gardaí are being recruited this year and there will be no diminution as a result of the introduction of the wardens.
Will these be called from leaving certificate holders or those with other qualifications? Will there be examinations?
Some will be from the leaving certificate examination and some from a special one.
When will the existing waiting list for entry for training be expired?
I am sorry I have no information on that.
When will it be exhausted? There are people who have been told they passed the examination and maybe four or five hundred are on a waiting list. Have they any hope of being called to training?
I will convey the Deputy's query to the Minister for Justice.
When will the next recruitment to the gardaí occur?
We expect in the autumn.
They have enough on the list for the next ten years.
In view of the large number of students now vacating colleges and schools would the Minister make that pretty definite because it would be some hope to some of those if there was an announcement now?
Yes. I will pass the suggestion to the Minister.
Could the Minister state the additional cost incurred by the Garda arising out of Border duties?
I understand that on security grounds it is considered undesirable to impart that information.
It is at least as good as some of the other answers.
When I do not know I tell the Deputies I do not know. This was a different situation.
The Minister took great pleasure out of saying it.
Yes.
I am sure the Minister is aware of what the JLO service is, what its functions are.
I have a layman's knowledge of it.
As the Minister is a city dweller I thought he would know all about it and also because he has a concern for young people. The JLO service was set up by the Minister's predecessor, Deputy O'Malley. I am not aware of the situation in any city outside Cork but I understood among the Garda authorities and the people concerned with this matter generally that this service was working very satisfactorily. In reply to a question to the Minister for Justice some time ago I was informed by him that this service would be extended in the Cork area. He said he was looking at the possible extension of this service to cater for growing built-up areas like Ballincollig, Blarney, Carrigaline, Douglas and other places on the verge of Cork city.
The reason I was pressing for this was to eliminate an injustice that might arise if the JLO service is confined to the young people within a city whereas the young person outside that area is faced with the consequences of a full court procedure. It was a desirable development that that should be extended. Could the Minister tell me what the present plans are for the JLO service? Is there any reason why, rather than being expanded, it is being allowed to run down? Is it a financial consideration or has recruitment slowed down? Is it because personnel are not available or because the Minister has now decided that it is not a desirable service?
It is quite untrue to suggest that there has been any running down in this service or that there is any failure on the part of the Minister or the Garda to recognise the importance of the service which, as the Deputy said, is of great value in urban areas. To a great extent it has proved itself. About 9,000 juveniles have come under the care and supervision of participating gardaí. The Garda have now carried out a countrywide survey with a view, not to the running down, but to the expansion of the Juvenile Liaison Officer service. In addition, an analytical study of the scheme has been completed. The report of the study is at present under examination and it is anticipated that some of the recommendations of the report will be implemented in the near future.
I appreciate the Minister's commitment to this service. It is an excellent one, one of the many excellent services initiated by Deputy O'Malley when he was Minister for Justice. I am glad that the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs has committed the Minister for Justice to its development and expansion. I never referred to the gardaí being dissatisfied with the service. I ask the Minister to convey my concern to his colleague who should be here this morning. The sooner an effort is made to expand it and to encourage the existing personnel along those lines the better. The personnel are concerned that there appears to be a reluctance within the Department, possibly because there is no money, to expand the service. The Minister should advise his colleague to push this service, which is an excellent one.
My colleague fully recognises the points the Deputy has made and he supports this scheme which was introduced by his predecessor. Where we have found good schemes initiated by our predecessors we are happy to carry them on.
And they are legion.
Perhaps a little less than legion.
I should like to ask the Minister to elaborate on the numbers being recruited this year. The Minister said 125. Surely the normal retirement fall-out would be more than that and, as a result, there has been a diminution.
I am glad the Deputy raised that point because it enables me to clarify the position. The 125 are a net additional new posts, after fall-out has been allowed for.
Therefore, there would have been more recruits than 125?
How many?
Approximately 200 replacements, plus 125 new posts. The net increase is 125.
