asked the Minister for Defence if he will consider setting up a coastguard service to protect this country's fishing stocks.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Fishery Protection.
29.
It is not proposed to change the existing arrangements under which fishery protection is carried out by the Naval Service.
Can the Minister tell the House if any costing has been made in relation to this matter?
I am not aware of any costing having been made but it will be obvious to the House that to set up a coastguard service would be highly expensive. I do not think that is what disqualifies it. It is a question of how best one can do the job and that would seem to me to involve naval vessels to patrol the coast.
In view of the fact that it costs a considerable sum to provide the existing vessels, would not the Minister agree that the provision of smaller vessels located at various points around the coast would be the best service that could be provided for fishery protection?
I could not so agree. In fact, that is the hoariest old chestnut that ever was. Everybody raises it over the years. In fact, I brought it up myself here. The position as I see it, and as I am advised, is that the weather around our coast, particularly the west, is such that we need all-weather fishery protection vessels. We really have one only. The minesweeper we have does not operate in very heavy weather conditions. As the possible extension of our boundaries will involve greater areas to be patrolled farther from the coast, the idea of men with field-glasses on ground does not seem to me something that would constitute a proper departure in 1975. The proper departure in 1975 would be if the law of the sea permitted us to do not merely surveillance but possibly arrest, or define, recognise and possibly prosecute a foreign State from aircraft. That might happen if the law of the sea were changed.
The law of the sea conference has gone on for two years and resumes next March and it looks to me as if it will be a long time before we get that. In the meantime we are limited to the definition of where the fellow is, the boarding, arresting and bringing to port. That is a big limitation which can only be carried out by naval vessels, not only naval vessels, but those that can take all sorts of weathers and operate further from the coast.
Is the Minister satisfied that he is giving protection at all?
I would not go that far. I am satisfied I am giving protection, having been left on my bare feet two-and-a-half years ago, but I am satisfied I am giving fully adequate protection.
What possible steps are being taken to ensure that protection is given?
The laying down of new all-weather fishery protection vessels costing a lot of money.
Are they actually being laid down?
Yes. Irish Shipping are acting as agents for us in this and they are working with Verolme. The day I see the keels laid down in Cork or somewhere else, but preferably in Cork, will be a happy day for me. There is no question of the Government stopping it. I have Government sanction.
There is no protection at the moment.
There is.
They are told about them beforehand.
We are running our minesweeper at double what it was before this.
(Interruptions.)
Order. A final supplementary from Deputy Gallagher.
Do I take it from the Minister's reply that no consideration at all has been given to the possibility of providing a coastguard service or a proper fishery protection service?
Consideration has been given over the years to every aspect of this particular problem. The position is that it is quite obvious that a coastguard service all around our coasts would cost a lot of money. We must also remember that sometimes visibility is down to a few yards and a coastguard service does not give the sort of protection that an all-weather fishery protection vessel does. Small vessels are not practical because the best fishing times in the year are very often the heaviest weather times of the year so we need vessels that can go out. We are limited by the law of the sea, as I have said, to how we can stop these fellows from poaching. The law of the sea says that you have got to board, arrest and bring to port. I do not know how you can do that with a coastguard service.
I understand the point outlined by the Minister in relation to the law of the sea that you must board and arrest. Even allowing for that would it not be possible for the helicopter service to come to the aid of the fishing patrol vessel through spotting? Even though it would not actually arrest it could direct.
I would call the Deputy's attention to the fact that Deputy Blaney said that even with the fishery protection vessel the poacher was gone outside our limits before he could be arrested. The sight of a helicopter arriving means that you slip out. At the present moment the limits are quite restrictive. They are either six miles or 12 miles. If the law of the sea changes it may be possible to identify a poacher and prosecute him in his own country. We are not masters of this. As I understand the law of the sea conference at the moment every nation wants everything it wants and nothing anybody else wants. Until they have clarified their position and made new international laws we are limited to the situation of board, arrest and bring to port.
Would the helicopter not help by spotting?
A helicopter spotting means they get outside. I had a situation about two months ago whereby I could not get a boat to a position outside the Aran Islands, where 14 trawlers may or may not have been inside the limits, quickly enough. I made a decision that we would fly a Dove aircraft over them and shove them out. They went out like a flash but, of course, we could not arrest them. This is the dilemma. We will do our very best in this matter.
This is turning into a debate.
Is the Minister not aware of the danger, through the frustration of our fishermen and trawlermen along the west coast, that they may take the law into their own hands and arm themselves? Is this not an ever present danger at the present time?
I have a very good liaison with the fishermen on the west coast and east coast.
So have I.
I am not aware of frustration. I am aware that the fishermen know that we are running minesweepers at double the number of hours they were run during the previous administration.
Question No. 30 postponed.