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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 24 Jun 1975

Vol. 282 No. 7

Private Members' Business. - Building Industry: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann calls on the Minister for Local Government to increase substantially financial investment in the building industry, with special provision for the private housebuilding sector, in view of the serious decline in the numbers employed in the industry over the past 12 months and the urgent need to create jobs to cope with the high level of general unemployment in the country.

The building and construction industry is facing a crisis. It is self-evident. All the indications show a downward trend and inquiries from building contractors reveal a fall in demand and a consequent drop in employment. This, of course, is nothing new. We have been urging the Minister for the past year to do something about the situation in the building industry but our urgings have been to no avail.

The Department of Local Government estimate a drop in real output in the industry of 5 per cent for 1975. This figure has been challenged by the industry and with good reason. The figure they give, after careful consideration, is 12 per cent. This figure is very close to my own estimate which I worked out on the figures available to me. This being so there is no need for me to stress the seriousness of the situation. The Minister has, on many occasions, boasted that the Coalition made more money available for housing than was made available by Fianna Fáil but in real terms and at constant prices the actual amount of money has now declined below that which was provided by Fianna Fáil.

The building cost index for the construction industry published by the CSO for 1973 was 270.3 and for 1974, 357.3 which is an increase of 32 per cent. This shows that the inflation in the construction industry is much higher than the inflation rate in any other sector. The building and construction industry is our second largest industry with a total output of more than £500 million this year and a labour force of 80,000. There are also about 20,000 jobs in auxiliary industries depending on it, such as the industries which manufacture building materials. These are directly responsible to the health of the construction industry. Therefore, anything adversely affecting the construction industry has serious repercussions throughout the whole economy, not only in relation to those who are employed in the industry itself, or to those who are employed in auxiliary industries, but because a fall-off in employment in these industries results in less purchasing power, it directly and indirectly affects other industries and trade and commerce generally. For that reason it is vitally important that the decline in the industry should be corrected immediately.

Further to this, in situations where we have a massive unemployment problem, with more than 102,000 people unemployed in a tiny population of 3,000,000, we must fully utilise the industry to produce jobs quickly and to absorb not only those who are at present unemployed in the industry itself but also many more unemployed people who have little hope of other employment in the foreseeable future. We have no lead industries apart from the building and the construction industry, no other industry which could so quickly or so effectively expand. Therefore, at a time of severe unemployment, a massive injection of money is needed. All those engaged in the industry, workers and management alike, are convinced that a worthwhile financial investment by the State in the industry would have farreaching effects on the economy and would provide the much-needed boost which is so sadly lacking today. The framework is there, readymade. The builders are there, the workers are there, the plans are there and the machinery is there. It only needs this extra financial investment by the Government to achieve the much-needed objective of getting our people back to work.

It is very easy to become involved in the numbers game when discussing the activities of the Department of Local Government, particularly in the field of housing. The constant repetition of housing statistics by the powerful media available to the Minister had almost achieved its aim of so engrossing the attention of the public in these figures that they were in danger of losing touch with the reality and gravity of the situation. What is of real and vital importance to the public, is whether the industry is in a healthy condition, whether it is expanding or contracting, and whether it is employing more or fewer workers. The basic concern must be whether the industry is contributing to the extent to which it is capable, to the development of the economy, to the provision of employment, to ensuring that those without homes will be provided with homes. The answer must be that far from contributing to the full its contribution is lessening, and this, as I said earlier, is a very serious matter in the present circumstances in which we find ourselves. Money is needed at once, I ask the Minister, when speaking in this debate, not to waste the time of the House with his oft repeated figures showing that the Coalition, since taking office, spent more money on the building and construction industry than Fianna Fáil spent.

At a time when we have the dubious banner of being at the top of the EEC inflation league, with prices rising more rapidly here than even in Britain, with the inflationary rate in the building industry at 32 per cent, this type of argument has no relevance. It would be an insult to the intelligence of the people. We are entitled to a constructive reply. The continued repetition of this type of case will indicate to me, and I am sure will also indicate to the public generally, that the Minister simply wants to cloud the issue so that he can put on the long finger the very necessary action which must be taken by him and indeed which should have been taken by him long ago.

The two main planks in the Minister's case have been that he built more houses annually and he spent more money on the building and construction industry than was the case under Fianna Fáil. He seems to conclude from this that he has done his share. Be that as it may, the fact is that during Fianna Fáil's term of office the building industry was in a healthy condition. There was steady progress with increasing employment whereas today there is a decline with all the signs that the decline is accelerating. In normal times this would be a serious situation but in the highly inflationary abnormal times in which we are living it can be a disaster.

I now point to the factors which are causing anxiety because they show clearly a downturn in production which is having a detrimental effect on employment both in the industry and in auxiliary industries. Cement sales have always been regarded as one of the best indicators of the output of the construction industry. There is a particular reason why cement should be a good indicator because, unlike most materials, it cannot be stored indefinitely on a building site. The builder, therefore, orders cement only as he needs it and his current orders for cement reflect his current intention in regard to work.

It is not possible to distinguish the sales of cement for house building as distinct from other sectors of the industry but for the purpose of the case I am making the total sales on the home market are what matters. The sale of cement in 1973 was about 1.6 million tons which was an increase of 13 per cent compared with 1972. We left office in 1973, but it is only fair to say that even the most biased supporter of the Coalition would have to concede that this increase must be attributed to the building work in hands at that time and to the preparatory work being done on other schemes of houses and construction work generally in our last year of office. It is interesting to note that in 1974 the sale of cement on the home market fell to 1.56 million tons, a drop of 3 per cent and that since the second quarter of 1974 there has been a continuous decline in the amount of cement sold. In February, 1975 as compared with February, 1974 there was a decline of 12 per cent in the sale of cement on the home market and in March, 1975, the latest month for which I have figures available, there was a decline in the sale of cement, compared with the figure for March, 1974 of 36 per cent. Certainly that gives food for thought. When we come to judge the health of the building and construction industry, these are the really significant figures. The fall in sales of cement, which was very significant in February and March, 1975, underline the employment situation.

I shall now deal with this aspect of the matter. Since August, 1974 there has been a continuous drop in the number of persons employed in the private sector of the industry. It is worth nothing that this sector accounts for 75 per cent of the employment in the construction industry.

In April, 1974, there were 62,119 persons employed while, in April, 1975, the number had dropped to 56,802. If we take note of the number employed in that sector of the industry in April, 1974, the drop of 5,317 is a very serious matter indeed. The week before last we castigated the Minister for Industry and Commerce because of his failure to protect the footwear industry, and rightly so, pointing out the serious loss of jobs due to lack of initiative and effort on his part. When we take note of the fact that the number who lost employment in one year in the building industry is greater than the total employed in the whole footwear industry, we begin to appreciate the magnitude of the loss in employment. The reason that the volume of protest in the case of building workers is less is that they are scattered around the country in relatively small groups, and have not the same strength to be found in a more closely-knit working force.

Just as I protested on behalf of the footwear workers here, on a previous Private Members' Motion, I protest now in the name of the building workers. We, in this party, demand that the Minister take immediate and effective steps to alleviate their condition. Might I point out also, as I did previously in a supplementary question that these include both skilled and unskilled workers.

Let me now deal with the problem of unemployment in the building industry. To put it mildly, the trend in this respect is very depressing. In March, 1974, 13,509 building workers were listed as unemployed. In March, 1975, the latest date for which I have figures available, the number had increased to 19,887, which is a rise of 6,378. This is practically a 50 per cent increase in unemployment in one year. Since April, 1974, the pattern has been very clear. Month after month more and more building workers became unemployed. There was no sudden increase in the numbers unemployed; there was a steady erosion over that period. It was clear to everybody what was happening. On site after site, men were being let go in a steady stream. Yet over that long period the Minister continued to assert that there were no problems in the industry. We were deluged from every possible publicity avenue with figures of 25,000 and 26,000 houses. As I said before the Minister with the help of a well-oiled, politically orientated misnamed Government Information Bureau bombarded our people with these figures. I will admit that, for a time, he succeeded in lulling the unthinking into the mistaken belief that all was well, while thousands of unfortunate building workers were being handed their cards and were joining the queues outside the employment exchanges, forgotten completely by the Government and by the Minister for Local Government whose responsibility they are. At the same time the Coalition continued to bask in a rather euphoric type of acclamation from those who did not understand the position then but who I have no doubt understand it now.

The cruel fact of the matter is that whatever the number of houses built, 20 per cent of the total direct labour force of building and construction workers is unemployed today and no playing around with figures will change that one bit. These are people trying to exist now on social welfare, at a time when the inflation rate has reached a fantastic level. It is high time the Minister accepted the facts so apparent to everybody else and did something to help these workers back into employment.

In a speech the Minister made during the week he used selective figures to show that there was an increase in the number of workers employed building local authority houses. That was completely misleading and of very little assistance to the unemployed. These are workers who simply were transferred from private schemes to local authority schemes. Might I also add that the very increase mentioned by the Minister was neutralised on the same day, in the same newspaper, by the news that one single building and construction firm had cut its workforce from 2,093 to 991.

I have dealt with the fall in the sales of cement in the home market and with employment and unemployment in the industry. I have shown that there is a general contraction in the industry. There are, of course, other indicators of the malaise in this industry. There is less demand for materials, for timber, for concrete, bricks, chipboard, PVC piping to name but a few. The result is that many factories producing building materials and requirements have introduced short-time working and many of their workers have been laid off. Due to a slackening of business, builders' providers have cut back their staffs. It should be noted that the unemployment figures I have given relate only to those directly employed in the industry. Were we to add the numbers who lost employment in ancillary industries and in shops which retail building materials, then the number of unemployed would be very much greater. Evidence of the statements I have made relevant to unemployment in the industry, and ancillary industries, can be found in the annual reports of the public companies engaged in the industry and also in the CSO employment and unemployment statistics.

I have given the facts. The Minister and the Government continue to insist that there is no problem in the industry. It is high time they faced up to their responsibilities, accepted the situation and took the necessary remedial steps. Of course, were I to judge by the attitude of the Minister for Industry and Commerce in respect of the boot and shoe workers, I could not be very confident that the Government would do very much to help. Economists and others experienced in such matters all accept the beneficial effect of a resurgence in the building industry. I have no doubt that if the Minister faces this in a realistic way, very considerable benefit can accrue to the economy generally.

I have concentrated on the general situation in the industry. In a nutshell the picture presented can be described as reduced demand and, as a result, much smaller numbers of people employed; a Government which completely fails to face reality assisted by a hard-working publicity machine which has succeeded in focusing the attention of the public on certain aspects resulting in a complete overshadowing of the real position. I hope I have, by my contribution today, pierced the propaganda bubble to some extent. If I have I will feel I have been of considerable service to those who are at present unemployed in the industry.

The Minister claims to have built over 26,000 houses in 1974-75. I do not propose to query these figures as such. That would be an exercise in futility and would not change attitudes—some would believe it and some would not. However, I must point to the fact that there was a consistent fall in the sales of cement over the same year. There was a large fall in the numbers employed in the building industry over the same year; sales of building materials were drastically cut back. Unemployment increased considerably in ancillary industries and in the retail stores. Allied to this, the Minister—when opening the Childers Estate at Dungarvan, in reply to critics who claimed that there was serious unemployment in the house building sector, said that house building accounted for only 40 per cent of the total output of the construction industry.

My interpretation of that statement is that the Minister was saying in effect that employment in the other sector of the construction industry was all right and would counterbalance any loss there was in the house building industry. If this interpretation is correct and if the Minister's statement that he built more houses in the local authority area than ever before is a fact then clearly the area that is in real trouble is the private house building sector. It is in that area that most of the workers have lost employment. Having stated that much it is for the public generally to come to their own conclusions.

To get back to the figure claimed by the Minister of over 26,000 houses completed, as I said I do not propose to query that, but I am saying that even if these figures were correct, they do not in the circumstances represent any exceptional achievement. The efforts of the Minister to boost his own figures by comparing his figures with an average of the number of houses built over a five-year period by the Fianna Fáil administration shows that he does not really regard it as a real achievement. This effort by him points to an element of uncertainty and doubt in his mind which forces him to make the best comparison possible instead of simply relying on his own figure or making a proper comparison such as comparing the 1973-74 with the 1972-73 figure.

The Minister's comparative figures take the form of 25,000 houses built by him in 1973-74 as compared with 14,000 houses averaged over a five-year period of the Fianna Fáil administration. There is no way of legitimately comparing a single figure with an average figure. Let me also add, that it is equally true that there is no way which the Minister could have completed 25,000 houses in 1973-74 had they not been in the course of erection or in an advanced stage of planning while Fianna Fáil were in office.

Perhaps an analogy, which may in a sense be a personal one, comes to mind, that is the claim of the Minister for Education to have reduced the pupil-teacher ratio in 1973 and 1974 without any reference to the fact that the Fianna Fáil administration was responsible for the extra teachers. Of course neither the Minister for Local Government nor the Minister for Education would worry about making his claim over such awkward facts as that.

I did not propose to devote much of my time to that aspect of the matter but as the Minister for Local Government has devoted so much propaganda effort to it I should at least put the real facts on record. The real facts are that 25,365 houses were completed in 1973-74 under the present Minister and 21,647 houses in 1972-73 under the former Minister, Deputy Molloy. There is much more to it than that. Further facts are the basis of the present critical situation which faces the industry.

In 1971-72 15,921 houses were completed. In 1972-73 21,647 houses were completed, an increase of 36 per cent. In 1973-74 25,365 houses were completed and the rate of increase had fallen to 17.2 per cent. Last year, 1974-75, there were 26,509 houses completed, an increase of less than 5 per cent over the previous year and if one is to judge by the hints and the leaks and by the kites that are being flown the number of houses to be built next year will be in the region of 25,000, which would be a reduction on the previous year. It is well to note that during the Fianna Fáil time in Government there was a progressive increase in house building and a firm foundation was laid at that time for the 25,000 houses.

During the Coalition term of office the fall in the percentage increase has been quite considerable and this, in my view, is the basic cause for the present critical situation and for the rising unemployment in the industry. Anybody with any knowledge of industrial development knows that steady consistent planned growth, at whatever level, is vital to the health of the industry and there is no such thing as standing still and retaining your position. Once the growth stops decline sets in. If the Minister fails to recognise that and fails to make money available the situation will become progressively worse.

Whatever inflationary millions the Minister may quote for housing finance is now the major problem in the industry. It is a problem which has been facing it for the past year. Without finance builders cannot build. Without finance individuals cannot buy houses. Without purchasers builders will not build. Again, speaking at the opening of a housing estate in Dungarvan and later in the Dáil, the Minister said that he would not provide local authorities with all the money they had applied for for local authority housing because they had not the necessary preparations made to enable them to spend it.

I think, knowing the situation as he did in relation to unemployment generally the Minister should have seen to it that the proper preparations were more advanced. In any case his statement seems to imply that even if he had more money available to him at this point he would not be able to use it in that sector. That is one reason we emphasised private house building in the motion. The private sector of house building on which we must rely to quite an extent to provide increased employment is greatly in need of finance to overcome the critical problems facing it.

The average cost of a house purchased by means of a loan from a local authority is £7,500 and I take those figures from the quarterly bulletin. If this house is purchased from a speculative builder the State grant is included in the price. The purchaser to be entitled to a supplementary grant must have an income of less than £1,950 and if he is a man with a family of a certain number the limit is £2,350. Now, if we assume that the purchaser is a family man and he is entitled to a supplementary grant, then the net price of his house will be £7,175. The maximum local authority loan available to him is £4,500. To purchase the house he must find £2,675. His income qualifying limit is £2,350 so that the balance to be paid on this house is greater than a year's salary and, of course, I do not have to state that this is absolutely unreasonable.

The question now arises as to where he will get the £2,675. I note in a booklet, A Home of your Own, issued by the Department of Local Government emphasis is laid on savings as the key to house purchase and I agree, generally speaking. Is it likely that a family man earning less than £2,350 would be able to save more than his own annual salary? If we stretch our imagination to the limit and assume that he saves £1,000—mind you, this is some assumption at the present time on an income that is less than £2,350 —the question arises as to where he will get the remaining £1,675. If he is lucky and there is a credit union functioning in his area he may get some of it there but in the main he is thrown back on finance companies. Banks, as a rule, are not willing to lend money for this purpose. Even if they did the position would not be much better. The finance company loan is always short-term with a very high interest rate and the repayment of principle and interest is backbreaking. The repayment on a £4,500 SDA loan is something over £9 per week but the repayment on the remainder of the money is exceptionally high.

When we raised this matter on previous occasions the Minister's counter argument to this case has always been that all the money which was made available for SDA loans was fully taken up and that, therefore, there was no need to increase the loan levels. Of course the simple answer to that is, at a time when the unemployment situation is so desperate in this country, to say to the Minister that he should increase the amount of money available and if the present allocation is fully taken up then obviously if more money were available the extra money would also be taken up and very particularly so if the loan level were increased.

Of course, we are all fully aware of what the Minister wishes to imply in the answer he gives but what he is saying in effect is that if all the money made available for SDA loans is taken up by purchasers or people building their own houses with income limits of £2,350 and with maximum loans of £4,500 why increase either?

If people, in such circumstances, take up these loans then surely they must be satisfied with the situation. Of course, the answer to that particular query is that where a man with a family is concerned the hardships these conditions impose on him are exceptional and grossly unfair. The efforts to meet the total rent bring pressures to bear and the resulting stress and strain cause severe anxiety and worry and sometimes cause the marriage to break up. Families are sometimes deprived of proper meals because of the outlay on the house, with detrimental effects on the children's health. Sometimes the wife must go out to work or continue to work after marriage. I have no objection to married women going out to work if they so desire but I have a decided objection to wives having to go out to work because of economic necessity. It is the business of the State to ensure that the necessity will not arise, and where the State fails in a matter such as this it is failing in a constitutional obligation. Making better loans available would help to discharge this obligation.

On many occasions we stressed the fact that the loans were too low. This is not the first time that we have proposed to the Minister that they should be increased. One might ask why people put this type of burden on their shoulders. Of course, the fact is that they have no alternative if they are to have a home of their own. The number of houses built by the local authorities is about one-third of the total number of houses completed each year and, therefore, for many people the alternative to waiting for a considerable number of years for a house is to provide one for themselves through loans and grants. In effect, the Minister is failing, on the one hand, to provide sufficient local authority houses and, on the other, he is keeping loans and grants at such a low level that people are forced into going ahead with the house even at the expense of spending years afterwards struggling even to exist.

I want to stress that when I am talking about the price of a house I am talking about the house alone and not the furniture and other necessities. I should like to ask the Minister to explain an important matter relating to the financing of local authority houses which has arisen from the figures within the Quarterly Bulletin. The Quarterly Bulletin of Housing Statistics of 31st December, 1974, gave total expenditure on housing in 1975 at £101.55 million, including £51 million for local authority housing. A footnote there states that these figures do not include the additional £7 million for local authority housing which was stated to have been made available since the budget. The March figures in the Quarterly Bulletin should therefore read: total expenditure, £108.55 million, including £58 million for local authority housing. In fact, they read: total expenditure, £104.55 million and for local authority housing, £54 million. I should like to know from the Minister where is the missing £4 million.

Some time ago I asked the Minister, in a Dáil question, the average percentage increase in the price of all houses serviced for loans from all lending agencies from May, 1973, to 31st March, 1975. The figure he gave me was 37 per cent. On the same day the Taoiseach gave me a figure in relation to the construction industry, generally of 58 per cent. There is a discrepancy here. However, if we deal only with the 37 per cent how can the Minister possibly, in all justice, continue to hold that the loans and grants introduced in May, 1973, can still be adequate in June, 1975, when the increase in costs must now be 40 per cent at least? How can he claim, if he regarded £2,350 as the maximum income to qualify for a local authority loan in May, 1973, that this is still sufficiently high when he is fully aware of the enormous increase in living costs since then? To enjoy a standard of living equal to that enjoyed by a person with an income of £2,350 in May, 1973, today one would need a greatly increased money income. In effect, the Minister is debarring from SDA loans many people from a category who were entitled to loans two years ago. It is not just or fair that this discrimination should be continued.

With regard to those who are borrowing from building societies—the building societies need more money —one of the big problems facing them is that because those with over £2,350 per annum have no alternative but to borrow from building societies an inordinate amount of their income goes out on housing each week. If we were to assume that the weekly repayment is £15 per week and the income about £45 per week, which is roughly the figure of £2,350, then 33? per cent of their income goes on housing. This is very unreasonable. I noted from some research I did that in America they regarded 15 per cent of the income as being reasonable to spend on housing and above that needed some assistance.

I have shown that all the indicators point to a downturn in the building and construction industry with a consequent grave effect on employment and the hopes of many who are anxious to build or buy their own houses. The Minister stated at the opening of the Childers estate in Dungarvan that the full claim by the local authorities for money for housing would not be granted because the sum sought was more than the local authorities should possibly spend. If this is so then we gave him advice about six months ago and on many other occasions as to where extra money could be used to the benefit of the person who wished to build his own house and to the benefit of the building worker. We suggested that the Minister put more money into private housing. So as to encourage more people to buy their own houses, to build their own houses and to put more people into employment, we advocate a number of things. Firstly, we propose that the loan limit be increased to £6,000. I have heard an objection to this proposal and, indeed, the Minister referred obliquely to this during replies to supplementary questions.

The objection was that the borrower would not be able to pay back the interest rate on the principal because the total would be too high. Of course, this argument might be valid if a new house could be built for £5,000. But the fact is that a new house cannot be built for less than £7,500 and, therefore, the borrower must look for more than £2,500 over and above the local authority loan. I stress that this extra money he needs does not include furniture or other necessities. The combined payments in such a case would be far and away above the repayment on the £6,000 SDA loan.

We are also proposing that the qualifying income limit should be increased to at least £3,000. I do not think there is any need for me to justify this when we consider the violent increase in living costs. We advocate that all new house and reconstruction grants should be increased by 50 per cent. With regard to the building societies the existing mortgage interest rates should be reduced by the removal of income tax liability on building societies. Fianna Fáil believe that there should be a fundamental reappraisal of the whole area of housing finance, and we are doing just that.

There is a serious unemployment problem in the industry and in auxiliary industries. Repeating again the number of houses built and the totals of money spent by the National Coaltion does not alter this situation. We are proposing that a worth-while injection of money should be made into the construction industry with emphasis on the private housing sector to ensure that the unemployment situation will be improved and a guarantee to many people who are in need of houses and who are anxious to buy or build their own houses that they will be able to do so. More money, of course, must also be made available for general construction purposes, to build more schools, more Garda stations and to erect more factories. More money must be made available for water and sewerage purposes, for road building and so on.

I suggested previously that, in this architectural heritage year, we should invest in labour intensive work of reconstructing old buildings and converting them to other uses. I do not have to go into the advantages of increased spending in the building industry. Apart from the fact that it would increase employment quickly, it has the added advantage that the main raw materials are home produced. This, at a time when we have balance of payments problems, is something which should weigh heavily with the Minister.

In prevailing circumstances if the Minister takes the various proposals we have put forward and puts them into effect, they will have worthwhile effects on the building and construction industry and on the economy generally.

First of all, I would like to put it on the record that the Government regard the building and construction industry as one of the most important in the country. In fact, it has a key role in the whole economy, representing about 13 per cent of the gross national product. If you look at it closely, it is only second to agriculture as far as employment content is concerned. Deputy Faulkner made the statement that he did not want to be blinded by figures, yet he used figures whenever they suited his own argument. More than likely, the Minister and I will do the same.

What I said was that I did not think there was any point in querying the figures that were issued in relation to the number of houses completed.

At present there are about 77,000 people employed in industry, both in the private and public sectors. In the public sector—that includes the ESB, Bord na Móna, all the semi-State bodies—there are something in the region of 20,000 employed. In the private sector the figure is in the region of 56,802. That is a fall of 8.5 per cent on the corresponding figure for 1974. It is not 20 per cent, as Deputy Faulkner said. There are no statistics available for the private sector of the house building industry. However, it is fair to say that when Deputy Faulkner was making his contribution, he passed over the public sector which has increased substantially, and there are about 6,670 working there now. That figure speaks for itself. In the public sector in 1969-70 there were only 4,580 working there; in 1973-74 there were 4,970; in 1974 for nine months there were 6,293 and in 1975, for the first four months, there were 6,594. That is a dramatic increase in the public sector.

I agree with Deputy Faulkner in regard to the building and construction industry. It ranges far afield, to the merchant, the carpenter, the plasterer, the man who buys the furniture, the offices; in fact everywhere you turn, it will have an effect. If something goes wrong with it the effect will be seen down the line. In the first nine months to 31st December, 1974, the Government provided about £240 million to generate work for the industry. Of this, a yearly equivalent of £93 million was provided for houses. In 1975, a record £300 million has been provided for the public capital programme to stimulate work for this industry. £104.53 million of this was allocated for houses. Included in this was the £54 million which Deputy Faulkner mentioned and a further £4 million which was granted since the budget.

That means there is £58 million for local authority housing. These are figures for new house grants, which cannot be disputed. The number of full grant payments in the first five months in 1975 compares favourably with the corresponding period for 1974 as the following figures show: In January, 1975: 1,792; January, 1974: 1,318. In February, 1975: 1,702; February, 1974: 1,211. In March, 1975: 1,528; March, 1974: 2,103. In April, 1975: 1,090; April, 1974: 1,086. May, 1975: 1,316; May, 1974, 1,079. The total for 1975 was 7,428. The total for 1974 was 6,797. That is certainly an improvement and these are statistics that will stand up.

It is fair to say that the figures for dwellings for the first five months in 1975, are not as high as they were in 1974. However, the margin is not that great. The comparable figures are: January, 1975: 1,565; January, 1974: 1,378. February, 1975: 1,251; February, 1974: 1,158. March, 1975: 1,358; March, 1974: 1,297. April, 1975: 1,231; April, 1974: 1,626. May, 1975: 1,241; May, 1974: 1,320. The total for 1975 was 6,339. The total for 1974 was 6,966.

In regard to the amount of instalment grants paid, I should like to show to the House that there is no great difference between 1974 and 1975. In January, 1975, it was 1,565; January, 1974: 1,378. February, 1975: 1,380; February, 1974: 1,284. March, 1975: 972; March, 1974: 1,303. April, 1975: 1,102; April, 1974: 787. May, 1975: 931; May, 1974: 1,273. The total for 1975 was 5,950 and the total for 1974 was 6,025. These are figures which withstand any argument. No matter what Deputy Faulkner may say they run very close to one another.

I should like to tell Deputy Faulkner that the local authorities are providing very valuable assistance to the private house building sector by means of their purchase loans and supplementary grants. In fact, an indication of the extent to which the loan system is being utilised is that the latest available figures show that at 30th March, 1975 applications totalling 17,097 valued at £67.85 million were held as against 15,239 valued at £49.88 million in the corresponding period in 1974. The amount provided for these schemes from the public capital programme has increased substantially during the past three years. For 1972-73 it was £9.3 million; it is £37.5 million in the current financial year. Nobody can refute those figures.

Deputy Faulkner made a case for an increase in loans up to £6,000. One would think from his argument that the £4,500 was more or less hindering housing. We cannot accept that because if that were so the demand for loans would not have continued to expand.

If you had nothing else to eat, would you not eat haws? That is no argument.

The point is that if the loan figure were increased, is there any guarantee that the contractor would not increase the price of his house dramatically? Could that not happen?

Have you not a reasonable value certificate?

It is now a buyer's market and the latest figures show that the average loan from 1st April, 1974 to 31st December, 1974 was £3,971 while the average now is £4,170. Experience has shown that the builders have redesigned their houses to cater for the type of person who can qualify for that loan. These figures speak for themselves. As the Minister pointed out in reply to a Dáil question from Deputy Moore, the whole question is under review. If the Minister feels that action should be taken, I have no doubt that he will take the appropriate action.

It will be no good according to the Parliamentary Secretary.

It is expected that payments by building societies in 1975 will exceed £65 million compared with £43 million in 1972-73. During the first five months of 1975 the societies approved loans totalling £32 million. I am very glad to inform the House that the net flow of funds into the societies during the past six months has shown a dramatic increase. It reached a record level of £19.8 million. The figures for the different quarters in the comparable years are most interesting: in 1972, for the first quarter, it was £7.5 million; in 1973, it was £5.3 million; in 1974 it was £4.1 million and in 1975, it is £8.6 million; for April and May a further £11 million has come in, bringing it up to £19.8 million for that period.

This Government have treated building societies very well. It is no harm to put on the record of the House things that the Government have done and which some people would wish to forget about. In March, 1973, a special tax arrangement was operated by the Revenue Commissioners in relation to societies and confined to societies charging them a rate of interest on housing loans not exceeding a rate specified by the Minister for Local Government. In May, 1973, a special subsidy was introduced which enabled societies in present circumstances to offer an increased rate to investors by containing at 11¼ per cent the mortgage rates on home loans not exceeding £9,000. If this subsidy was not available, the mortgage rates would be 12½ per cent. One of the conditions attached to that subsidy is that loans made by the societies must relate exclusively to housing purposes.

Again, in October, 1973, the Government made a special arrangement with the Central Bank and associated banks for a special borrowing facility of £11 million for certain societies. This enabled those societies to expand their loan commitments beyond what they would have been able to do on the basis of the net inflow of funds at that time. Further, the Government secured the discontinuance of an arrangement operated by some societies whereby some builders paid them a handsome commission or a fee in return for an assurance that loans would be available in due course for houses constructed by those builders. This is all good work done by the Government as far as the building industry is concerned. There is no point glossing over it.

As far as the public capital programme in respect of the water and sewerage programme is concerned, it is worth while giving the figures here. All this is related directly or indirectly to the building industry. In 1971-72 the figure was £6.26 million; in 1972-73 it was £8.23 million; in 1973-74 it was £12.95 million and in 1974, for the nine-months' period, it was £11.45 million. In 1975, it is £16.75 million. These are staggering increases by any standard and due tribute should be paid to the Government for providing so much money in three years.

In 1974 local authorities were allowed to submit programmes which cost less than £20,000 to the Department. They are no longer required to submit technical details for small works; instead they can submit towards the end of the year a statement setting out the small works which they propose to carry out during the following financial year.

They have no money.

And these works are almost exclusively direct labour schemes and can be undertaken at very short notice. Of their nature they gave widespread employment.

(Interruptions.)

The Parliamentary Secretary must be allowed to proceed. His time is limited.

As far as employment content in water and sewerage schemes is concerned, it is about 35 to 40 per cent of the cost of the water scheme and about 50 per cent of the cost of the sewerage scheme. An analysis of the employment content of certain capital expenditure carried out by the Department of Finance in 1975 confirmed these figures. On the basis of a representative survey we got the following results: water supply scheme, labour as a percentage of total cost, 36 per cent; of a sewerage scheme, 55 per cent. The direct employment content percentage of sewerage schemes was the highest for the varied type of projects examined. Further on that, it is quite fair to say that in the group water schemes you have another 400 or 500 people employed.

All this is proof positive that the Government are very concerned about the building industry and the works leading off it, and as far as we are concerned we are putting the capital allocation into it and we are showing beyond doubt that we are building the houses. As far as local authority and private housing output is concerned, in the Government's target in their programme of intent, they said they would build 25,000 dwellings. This figure was achieved in 1973-1974. Again, in 1974-75, we built 26,393. It is worth while to go back a few years and compare figures. In 1970-1971 the number of local authority houses completed was 3,875; the number of private was 9,796. In 1971-72 the total was, local authority, 5,106, private, 10,815, total 15,921. In 1972-73, local authority, 5,784, private, 15,863, total 21,647.

A steady growth every year.

In 1973-74, 6,539 local authority, private, 18,826, making a total of 25,365; and for 1974-75, local authority, 7,331, private, 19,065, making a total of 26,396. I think we have clearly demonstrated the dramatic increase from 1970-71 to 1974-75, from 13,671 to 26,396. Again it is proof positive that we are really building the houses. I think Deputy Falkner will admit from the figures I have given him, and these are authentic figures, that the National Coalition have built the houses.

But it must be remembered what is happening in other countries and that a certain amount of it will rub off on this country. There is no point in getting away from that, because as far as Britain is concerned she is really in trouble. According to the quarterly bulletin of the International Federation of Builders and Woodworkers, there is very serious unemployment in the industry. The same is true in Austria, Sweden, Italy, the Netherlands, Switzerland and in parts of Spain where 10 per cent of the building work force is currently unemployed. It is estimated that this figure may rise to 50 per cent in the Federal Republic of Germany.

Very few are being built in Siberia.

I have shown clearly to the House and to the country that as far as the National Coalition are concerned the scare-mongering that the Fianna Fáil Party have tried to create about the building industry is not on and that we are going very well indeed.

Housing is the business of us all but the Government have no body or organisation which can direct the necessary moneys into it. That is what we are asking them to do. Deputy Faulkner gave a masterly analysis of the construction industry on a nationwide basis and if I have a parochial view it is because in this city we have a housing problem of great worry to us. The Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary cannot say that under Fianna Fáil we had not full employment. In fact, not so long ago, with Fianna Fáil in power, one of the biggest builders in the country was advertising in the English papers in order to attract some of the emigrant workers home to join in the great housing drive. To contrast that position with what obtains today is to sadden us.

The Parliamentary Secretary very vaguely poured forth many statistics which left me cold, and I would say for the person seeking a dwelling, whether it be a purchased dwelling or a rented dwelling, it would leave him cold also. There are figures which nobody can dispute taken from the live register of unemployed that at the moment there are about 6,000 building workers unemployed. They are only the ones which are registered. There are many who do not register. We may not like the lumpers in the trade but they are in the trade, and many of them do not register. There is the tragic picture that while these men stand idle, we still have a pressing housing problem.

Deputy Faulkner mentioned the ancillary industries. Take even the service industries, the builders' providers, those who manufacture materials for house building, these all are in the trade. At the same time, we have in the city alone about 6,000 families waiting to be housed. These are the families which were accepted by the corporation in the city and are eligible for housing. That figure does not include those young couples who are seeking an SDA loan so that they can purchase their houses. I put down a question not long ago on the availability of loans and asked whether the Minister would increase the limits. He said there was no need to because all the moneys made available were being taken up. That was probably true but the money allegedly being put forward at the disposal of young couples could not be availed of by many of them because of the difference between the loan limit and the average price of a house today. This is the situation not only in this city but in every major urban area in the country. Young people want to purchase their own homes but cannot do so. The average price of a house today is £7,000 and the loan limit is £4,500. Therefore, the young couple must make up the difference by way of deposit.

A more serious factor has emerged with the publication today of a booklet by the Department of Finance. In this publication we read that between 1973 and 1974 national savings are down by about £90 million. In that figure must be included the non-savings of many young couples who could not reach the deposits required and who are now living in rooms and paying exorbitant rents. Perhaps it is in this sector that we see the greatest savagery of a non-housing programme by the Government. These young couples who have scrimped and saved a certain amount of money cannot reach the amount required for a deposit on a house. They want to get married and settle down but they must take a so-called flat in the suburbs or inner city areas where they pay a lot more than they would pay for a house but the point is that they cannot get the house. This is why we have been pressing the Government to increase the loan limit so that these young couples can avail of the SDA operations to acquire a house and to start their lives on a good basis.

I cannot see why any Government would not pour every penny the country could afford into the housebuilding end of the construction industry, the ramifications of which are so great that a buoyant construction industry can be of enormous benefit not alone economically but socially.

If we have this grave and continuing housing problem, its repercussions will be experienced in every stratum of our society. The Government started off with a great fanfare of trumpets about housebuilding. No doubt at the time they meant what they said, but it is performance which counts and not mere promises or wishful thinking.

The danger of the speech made by the Parliamentary Secretary is that he probably believes what he says. This is a great tragedy. He is complacent so far as figures are concerned.

The Deputy would not suffer from that disability.

I would suggest that the Minister and his Parliamentary Secretary might leave the Custom House and go and talk to people who are looking for these loans, or even talk to some of the unemployed. In that way they would get the real picture. We must not pay any heed to the statistics which were poured forth in the speech of the Parliamentary Secretary. If he did not believe it there would be some hope that this would be more than mere political talking, but the fact that he believes it means that he will not be concerned with doing anything about the situation.

In Dungarvan the Minister stated recently that because of the fact that some local authorities would not be able to use the housing moneys this year, they would not get them.

I did not say any such thing and Deputy Moore knows that. I do not want to interrupt Deputy Moore but let him not misquote me.

I am quoting the Minister as I read him. I am not trying to misquote him but it is rather a strange statement.

I did not make it so it could not be strange.

By tomorrow night I hope to have the exact wording. The point is for such a statement to be made at a time like this when we have a kind of admission that things are not good here. It is no comfort to people to tell them, as Deputy Begley told them, that things are bad in Austria or Spain. They may be bad in those places but for different reasons.

I would remind the Parliamentary Secretary that matters are becoming worse. There are £90 million less in the savings funds. This could be repeated in other sectors also. We are looking forward to the massive injection some people have suggested will be made. The time has come for the Minister to have a look at the whole construction industry and ask why it is that only a little more than two years ago we had practically full employment but now we have chronic under-employment. At the same time the housing waiting list grows. In spite of the efforts of Dublin Corporation we find at the moment a mere 1,500 dwellings under construction while the approved waiting list is more than 5,000. When I say approved housing list I refer to the number of families who have been accepted by the Corporation as complying with their regulations for housing eligibility.

I thought that Cork was the only county with that problem but it seems to be all over.

I am sure every city has this problem. No childless couple would appear on that list unless they lived in a dangerous building. Lots of young married couples who apply for inclusion are told that in the present circumstances they are not eligible for housing. They may be living with their parents and this is not always the best arrangement, or they may be living in some room paying the highest rent they can afford. They may be trying to save for and awaiting the SDA loan, but it is not forthcoming. We charge the Government with falling down on the job of housing. No matter what statistics are put before us, we go back to those which show that the work force in the construction trade has fallen by about 6,000. It is not improving, and more and more people cannot save for a deposit on a house.

I suppose the Opposition should suggest to the Government something they might do in easement of the situation. On the local authority housing scene, the Government must come forward with more capital. I said a few years ago here that had we had all the money we needed we could not have accelerated the housing drive because the labour force was fully employed and one could not get more workers, even though many had come back from abroad. The position today is that if the Minister will provide the money we will put those 6,000 unemployed men to work in the construction industry, and there is room for plenty more if we are even to overcome the present housing problem. I reiterate that we will always have some type of housing problem. Any living city or country will have a certain problem but we do not accept that we should allow the problem to continue while men wither through unemployment and allow the boast to be made that the men who are unemployed are being paid adequate social welfare benefit. I am sure these men would prefer to be working, building houses or other kinds of building rather than merely drawing the dole while the housing waiting lists mount and mount.

It is the task of the Government, and they must so organise their financial resources and allocations to ensure that our second largest industry will not grind to a standstill because we have not sufficient money. It is not my job to tell the Government where to get the money. They have got their financial advisers and the Department of Finance at their backs. But we do say they are failing gravely in their duty on which they will be judged if they do not try to revitalise the construction industry. We heard in the last year Fianna Fáil were in power the jeering about the office blocks being built. But one will note in recent times even they are not being built, practically all the large cranes that used to be seen on the city skyline have disappeared.

They are buying racecourses instead.

So also is the employment of building workers diminishing.

Were we to swap office blocks for houses we would not mind. I would be in favour of it. If the high-rise cranes have disappeared from the office block sites, the ordinary scaffolding of the two-storey dwelling is also disappearing. We are left with the tantalising situation where we have masses of unemployed workers while the housing waiting list grows and its attendant misery grows also.

It would be very easy to criticise a Government were they inexperienced or with no history on which to work in regard to housing construction. But there are plenty of records in the Department of Local Government to show the various phases of fluctuation in the housing drive. If we have reached a record number of unemployed in all sectors—and who knows whether we have yet reached the limit, I hope we have—who could excuse a Government, whether they be socialist or capitalist, who will stand and do little while our building operatives become unemployed, while the housing waiting list grows and people become despondent about the prospects of the housing drive being maintained as it was a few years ago?

There are people who cast grave doubt on the statistics issued by the Parliamentary Secretary, or indeed through publications. I am not a great believer in masses of statistics being thrown out in defence of any case.

Facts are confusing all right.

They are meant to be.

I shall reiterate the facts for the Minister. My information, which may be confusing to him, is in respect of the unemployed figures in the construction industry. They are the real figures and those that count.

The bread and butter.

There is not alone the fact that these men are unemployed but that they could be employed in turning out more dwellings for the people who need them. But the men are being kept idle because the Government's housing policy has failed. No matter how much it is boosted by statistics issued by the Department, I do not think anybody believes it any more. If one passes Gardiner Street or Werburgh Street employment exchanges, one sees statistics there, not cold figures but men standing there who could be employed in building homes for their families, relations or friends.

We demand that the Government shake themselves. When I say that we demand that, I will admit there are plenty of Deputies on the Government benches also who are not at all satisfied with the Government's handling of the housing situation. We will continue to urge, even to plead with the Government, to get down, cut out the gimmicks and find the money to put into the construction industry so that we may again see the housing drive well under way because a fact of all of this is that the building trade is not now employing young apprentices. The ESB had to get rid of many of their apprentices long ago. We find that young people cannot find a trade. If this continues long enough we will eventually have a grave shortage of craftsmen, not because there is not work for them in the future but because there has now been created a gap in training. Despite the best efforts of AnCO unless there is full employment for apprentices we shall feel the pinch in the future. Think also of the anxiety of parents who see their sons wanting to become carpenters, bricklayers, electricians or plasters, who cannot be placed in any job in the construction industry. If youth become cynical and sceptical who can blame them?

The onus is clearly on the Government to devise ways and means of getting sufficient capital for the construction industry. Any Government with any sense would get the money somewhere to put into this industry because not alone does it help to cut out social evils but it also provides gainful employment and if today the Government feel despondent at their lack of progress the people will blame them mostly for their failure to handle the whole construction industry. It is starved of capital. Because the whole situation was mishandled we now have rising unemployment in the industry, despondency in the young couples who seek houses and bewilderment among the people who thought the Government would keep up the good work of the previous Administration in the building drive.

Debate adjourned.
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