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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Jul 1975

Vol. 283 No. 7

Financial Resolutions, 1975. - Financial Resolution No. 3: General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.
—(Minister for Finance.)

I was dealing with the incorrect charge of Deputy Colley that industrial exports would, perhaps, be static. I want to point out that the OECD have forecast a decline of 2½ per cent in the volume of exports this year. It must be borne in mind that many major economies are passing through a very difficult stage because of the down-turn in world economic activity and demand. As a small open economy, we cannot escape being hit by current international recession. The fact remains that our performance is better than the performance of any comparable country.

This year our balance of payments deficit is expected to be between £150 million and £200 million, which represents a very substantial improvement on a balance of payments deficit of £300 million last year. It is our intention that this deficit be brought down gradually, and deliberately gradually, because to do it immediately would plunge our people into a greater economic recession than is at present imposed on us because of outside circumstances.

Deputy Colley suggested that the balance of payments be held in check because of a down-turn in economic activity at home, but, of course, that is only half the picture. A large part of the improvement is due to more favourable terms of trade resulting mainly from an easing of import prices. The down-turn in our economy is a result of world-wide effects. We would be experiencing a higher growth rate and our imports would be higher if the decline was not at present so insidious. However, what Deputy Colley does not mention is that our exports would also have been higher if our customers abroad were not suffering from the same recession as is inflicted upon this country. Our agricultural exports this year have been growing at a very rapid rate. For instance, in the first five months of this year in value terms they are 40 per cent higher than last year. This is making a very major increase to our balance of payments position.

Most of the allegations made in the course of this debate by the Opposition were wrong. Yet another of the incorrect ones made was that the current budget deficit, as enunciated by me on 26th June, did not include the costs of social welfare improvements next October. I do not know what the Opposition are doing. The performance of this Chamber does not encourage one to have much confidence in them. The media are saying that—it is not a partisan assessment of a Government Minister. They are not even doing their homework. If they had looked at the budget statement of last January they would have seen where we provided for the October increases in social welfare. We provided more than enough because the result of the Government reduction in the consumer price index by 4 per cent, as a result of the supplementary budget which we are now discussing, will mean that we have provided more than sufficient to meet the October increases in social welfare.

I referred in my financial statement to two types of saving schemes designed to counteract in some way the effects of inflation. One of these was an index link scheme of limited applications directed to help our older citizens to provide a small nestegg for contingencies. I am glad to say that the working out of this scheme is almost completed and subject to the usual requirements of printing and publicity it should be in operation very shortly.

I also said I was considering a limited scheme of indexation related to the national instalment savings scheme confined to those prepared to set their savings aside for a minimum fixed period of time. The formulation of this scheme is somewhat more complicated in that it has to be associated with and synchronised with the existing national instalment saving scheme. I am nevertheless hopeful that this will be announced and in operation in the very near future.

I was interested, Sir, that in contrast with many recent debates, including the debate on the January budget, the Opposition were a little more careful on this occasion not to demand further and further public expenditure. I pointed out in January last that having criticised the size of the deficit and having criticised the amount of the taxation and having criticised every financial rule the Government were following, the Opposition were urging additional expenditure of £120 million. It is probably due to laziness on their part or indifference or, as I identified earlier, their general lack of zest in this debate, that they did not get down to any particular items in the course of this budget debate. So I have not been able to put a cost upon their Santa Claus generosity. They were demanding an increase in the limits of SDA loans both as to the amount of loan advanced and the amount of income to qualify for a loan. The interesting thing is that having chastised us for the size of the present borrowing requirement, to increase these limits would have increased the borrowing requirement by about another £20 million. So, as they seek to be generous enough to show how wonderful they are, they are raising once again the problem of the size of the deficit and the amount of borrowing that has to be made. I would suggest that before we next come to discuss the financial affairs of this country the Opposition would get together and try to achieve some uniform approach to the economic and social problems of our time.

They also commented upon the lack of infrastructural development, which is one of these wonderful words that mean something to those who are looking for something but do not allow one to measure the cost. Of course, people who failed and failed miserably to provide the infrastructural development are not in a position to criticise this Government. We have quadrupled in two years the amount of money we spent on water supplies, sewerage, roads and services of that kind which are essential to the provision of houses for our people and to industrial development. As they did not quantify what they were demanding, I am not in a position to put a price on it. All I can say is that we have stretched resources very considerably in order to provide the immediate needs of our people in the social sector and also to provide employment.

I was interested to see that one commentator has said that the Government's disposition to pump yet more money into housing was the last resort of an uninspired Minister for Finance. Of course, I can envy the luxury of being a commentator and I am sure they do not resent my sense of envy. When every other commentator in our community was advising us to pump money into housing I find it difficult to accept the veracity of that accusation. What is the simple truth? The quickest and best way of promoting employment in order to ensure the least effective increase of imports, the most effective way of promoting employment without generating inflation, is to build houses. Ireland has amongst the member states of the EEC and many other European countries the best record for the provision of homes for people. We are the only country in Europe that over the last two years has not alone maintained its housing output but has increased it. This Government with that record behind them have pumped yet more money into the housing sector. There are a number of reasons, first of all because we have such an abominable lag to overtake and secondly, because it happens to be one of the most immediate ways in which we can relieve existing unemployment. I know there are other ways in which public money could be spent to generate wealth in the future. I would like to be spending more money in those sectors but in our economy—and our economy is working about 20 per cent below its existing capacity—obviously no immediate return could be obtained from investing in sectors which at present are operating below capacity. The important thing to do is to provide a stimulus, therefore, in the building industry in such a way as will ensure immediate employment and also relief of very serious social distress. We have provided a very powerful stimulus in the private sector of the building industry which, in this country, is being maintained at a level which, as I said earlier, is not being maintained elsewhere. Additional finance of over £50 million was announced for private house building, partly from Exchequer resources and partly from the resources of the banking system.

It is significant that under this Government the banking system which was regarded as being conservative and not interested in social investment and as being unready to provide money for housing has come forward with £40 million for house building. That is very significant and something that should be remembered by people who are strong critics of both the Government and the banking system.

There has not been any neglect on the part of this Government of local authority housing. Early in the year, since our budget in January last, we injected another £7 million into local authority housing. At present local authorities are stretched to the limit of their physical and administrative capacity. There is no lack of finance holding up local authority housing. We have had to build up a service which was inadequately provided with staff, skills and planning, and we have built up the output of local authority housing for our needy citizens in a most dramatic way during the period of the greatest economic recession ever experienced by the world.

Deputy Lynch suggested that there was no information as to the cost of the subsidies and reduction in VAT. This distressed me because one wonders if the members of the Opposition ever bother to listen when they are in the House. Deputy Lynch was in the House since I was speaking on the budget. Then you wonder whether or not they bother to do their homework outside the House.

In my financial statement—page 26 of the stencilled version—I gave the cost of the subsidies in 1975 at £18.5 million and the VAT reductions at £8.2 million. It is indicative of the Opposition in Ireland today that the Leader of the Opposition could come into the House and make such a reckless and unfounded accusation, that the Minister for Finance in the name of the Government, had not put a price on the subsidies and the removal of VAT, when he had counted it down to decimal points. It is no wonder people are disillusioned with the Opposition when such could occur.

Deputy Colley said on television that since the Government took up office there had been a run on National Loan sinking funds and saving certificate rescue funds. He suggested that this was unprecedented and undesirable. The first time sinking funds were used for Exchequer financing was in the Fianna Fáil year of 1959-60. Prior to that it had been the practice to keep sinking fund balances on deposit with Government bankers, who were then the Bank of Ireland, pending use for the purchase of stock on the open market for cancellation. The market, however, became stagnant. Comparatively large balances accumulated on deposit at a time when the Exchequer was borrowing from inter alia the Bank of Ireland for Exchequer purposes at rates much higher than the deposit rates. In effect, Ireland was borrowing her own money and paying a high interest rate on it. I am not prepared to pay a high interest rate for the borrowing of money at home and abroad when there is in the Exchequer coffers money lying idle upon which the Exchequer is receiving less than it would have to pay if it borrowed the money elsewhere.

I should like any person who criticises the policy of the Government to justify any operation in which the Government of Ireland would fail to use the money they have immediately available, instead of money which they would otherwise have to borrow at excessive rates of interest. The rates of interest being charged on money lent today are unprecedently high. It is clear that the sensible thing to do is to use the resources which are immediately available without having to pay extortionate rates of interest.

Deputy Colley referred to the delay in renegotiating the export credit scheme. All I can say is that he obviously does not know the facts. Work on the revision of the export credit scheme commenced in my Department and in the Department of Industry and Commerce in 1974. Detailed discussions were necessary with individual exporters of capital goods in order to assess their credit requirements.

In my budget statement last January I announced that details of a revised scheme would be announced shortly. The negotiations with the Central Bank and the other banks were, for reasons beyond the control of the Minister for Finance, very protracted. They involved not merely the particular discussions with individual exporters, but also settlement of the monetary policy for the year. Our banking system is composed of independent units. Their agreement is required for any advance which they are asked to make. Care has also to be taken to observe EEC requirements. We have to make certain that where the Exchequer is involved in the subsidy it is properly administered and that the very best arrangement is made from the point of view of the national economy.

In fact, for the first time, there will be an Exchequer subsidy for the export credit scheme and it will cost money, like so many other services which people so glibly demand but later are less willing to pay for. The arrangements came into operation on 1st May. Only one complaint has been received, and that came from a firm which complained on three occasions when Deputy Colley was Minister for Finance. I think Deputy Colley formed the view that they were too ready to make complaints and less ready to look after their own affairs. However, as I say, the one complaint has come from a firm which has previously complained and it is not significant. Deputy Colley suggested, if I recall his remark correctly, that there was something sinister in the fact that a complaint had been made. He must be consoled to know that it came from the same quarter as was obviously causing some embarrassment to him.

Is the Minister referring to a firm in the South West?

That would be the area.

The complaint I received recently was from a firm in that area but I do not recall anything remotely resembling what the Minister has said about my period in office in relation to that particular firm.

Perhaps I should say that I am not certain if the Deputy, personally, was in office. I was thinking of his Government and party. Certainly, there were three complaints before I became Minister for Finance and during the lifespan of the last Government.

I should like to return to the specifics of the budget. Before I do, by way of introduction, I should like to deal with the comments of Deputy Colley supported by Deputy Lynch and others. Deputy Colley, if I recall correctly, said that the parties to the national agreement did what the Government asked of them in the White Paper on National Partnership. They suggested that the Government had not played their part. In the White Paper on National Partnership the context in which the claims for equal adjustments were made should be looked at very carefully.

It was pointed out that, as a result of the economic recession, which followed in the wake of the oil price increases, the resources available to our people would remain at or about the same level, at best, for some time to come. As a community, therefore, we could not afford, or even hope, to improve our living standards. For this reason, last November the Government urged moderation and restraint in the negotiation of pay settlements since the achievement of disproportionate income increases by some sections of the community could only be at the expense of weaker groups.

In line with the Government's concern for the disadvantaged sections of the community, a commitment was given in the same White Paper to the protection of living standards through periodic revision of social welfare payments. In order, however, that the effect of such measures should not be nullified, the Government urged, in the White Paper, the better-off sections of the community not to seek pay increases in compensation for any additional tax imposed for the purpose of financing these necessary expenditures. This commitment, to the deprived in the community, was honoured in the budget of last January and will again be honoured in the revision of social welfare increases in October.

In January last, rates of payment for all social insurance and assistance schemes and related schemes administered by health boards were increased from 21 per cent to 23 per cent. To meet those increases, and the increases due next October, additional taxation was imposed on less essential items, such as alcohol and tobacco. In my budget statement in January I called for the exercise of restraint in seeking income increases and stressed the particular importance of refraining from using the increases in the consumer price index due to these new taxes as a basis for further income increases. My appeals not to use those new taxes on alcohol and tobacco as a basis for further increment increases have been ignored. They have been ignored throughout this debate by the Opposition although, as I pointed out in my early interventions in this debate at lunchtime, no Member of the Opposition has spoken in this debate against what I urge, that is that we as a community should remove as a base for seeking income increases, adjustments in taxation on alcohol and tobacco. I have become hoarse urging that. It was not taken up in the national wage agreement negotiations although it was urged by Government representatives at such negotiations. Nobody yet has come out in public and denounced my urging that consideration because they know it is well founded and it is the only worthy approach to the matter of incomes or to the necessity which may arise in the future as in the past to impose taxation in order to provide the necessaries of life for the less privileged of our community. It is a matter that will have to be accepted sooner rather than later.

In March of this year, workers received 10 per cent escalator payment which brought the average pay increase obtained under the 1974 national wage agreement to about 30 per cent in a 12-month period. That was an increase well in excess of the price rises that took place during the year. Superimposed on that 1974 agreement were the increases provided for in the 1975 agreement. The first phase of this agreement included full compensation for the rise of 8 per cent in the consumer price index mid-November, 1974 to mid-February 1975, which included 3 per cent attributable to taxation, and I make no apology about that.

I pointed out that taxes were going on and what the consequences would be for the consumer price index, but those taxes were necessary to keep this country going; those taxes were necessary to provide jobs; those taxes were necessary to provide the poor in our community with the means by which to live. Since then people have insisted, as they hypocritically approved the increases on the luxuries, on getting total compensation. "I am a great fellow to make sacrifices on my drink and my smokes, but I will make sure I get compensation for it." That is the attitude that is operating in Ireland. That is what has brought the level of income increases here above what is supportable, and it is time that in decency we have the courage to change our attitude in this regard.

Is the Minister right in saying full compensation for the increase was given in the first phase of the agreement?

Yes. The 8 per cent provides full compensation.

I thought 6 per cent was the maximum increase under the national wage agreement.

No. An 8 per cent increase in the consumer price index between September——

The 8 per cent in the cost of living is right.

But I thought the first phase increase was 6 per cent.

No. The agreement included full compensation for the rise between November, 1974, and February, 1975. The next phase is a 5 per cent increase, not a six per cent. The earlier one of 8 per cent includes taxation which was necessary.

The question has been asked why the Government adhered to the national agreement last April, if the terms were so undesirable economically. Firstly, it was signed by the Government in their capacity as employers. The Government participated in negotiations of the national agreement because it is an employer, but, it is only one employer of all the employers involved in the Employer-Labour Conference. At the time, despite the inflationary nature of the settlement which the Government warned about, we supported the view that a national agreement was preferable to a free for all.

Did you do it under duress?

No. We considered that a national agreement is preferable to a free for all. In April of this year, the economic indicators were not as unfavourable as they were in June. I warned last January—I was probably the first Minister for Finance in the history of this country to give a warning—when I introduced one budget, that another budget might be necessary before the end of the year. I warned that the economic situation globally and nationally, was so unstable that it was impossible to look into the economic crystal ball and determine what was the correct economic and fiscal policy to follow for 12 months ahead. It is a reality that not only national governments but international organisations are in precisely the same position today, and have been during the last six months.

It gives me small comfort to say that amongst the Ministers for Finance of the EEC, I was the most pessimistic last January. Indeed in the autumn of last year I was the most critical of the failure of the surplus countries like Germany, Holland and the United States of America to reflate their economies. My advice was brushed aside and even now, in June of 1975, Germany has to admit that the reflationary action which it has taken is not even enough to maintain the German economy at the level at which it operated in 1974. They are in decline when they were anticipating a growth rate of 2 per cent. That is some indication of the collapse of the world economic order as we knew it over the last decade. The most up-todate economic assessments are less favourable than they were in January, or less favourable than they were in April last, and we cannot run away from the reality of the situation.

It will, I hope, be clear from my opening speech that the crucial factor in the present serious situation is whether there is an adequate response in the Employer-Labour Conference to my request for a revision of the national agreement to match the measures which the Government are taking to wind down inflation. The Government measures add up to a very substantial package: subsidies for CIE fares, bread, flour, butter, milk, town gas and the removal of VAT from electricity and other fuels, clothes, footwear were assigned to reduce the rise in the Consumer Price Index by 4 percentage points. In addition, the Government are taking steps to protect and to boost employment by means of the premium employment programme, by adding £27 million to the capital programme and by encouraging the banks to put £40 million into housing.

In return, the Government seek appropriate modifications of the third and fourth phases of the national agreement. As I said on 26th June and repeat, it will not be possible for the Exchequer to meet the cost of the Government's package, as well as the cost of implementing the national agreement for the public sector as it stands at present. Furthermore, the Government cannot proceed on the lines they have in mind at a time when workers generally are being asked to agree to a scaling down of the standard increases, if particular groups, especially those in secure employment, should insist upon special improvements in pay or conditions. Such improvements can only be secured at the expense of other groups. We said that last November and it is as true in July, 1975, as it was in November, 1974.

It would also give rise to serious social and industrial strains. It would also by adding to costs run directly counter to the aim of slowing down the rate of price increase. Accordingly, the Government have asked that any modification of the standard increases should be accompanied by an embargo on special increases. We have expressed the hope that in addition in the national interest the parties would be able to reach quick agreement on this.

In view of some criticisms that have been made, it is, in the Government's view, essential that there should be no misunderstanding of the Government's position. What the Government have proposed is that there should be a deep discussion between the parties to the agreement, concerning in particular the third and fourth phases under the agreement. I stressed on 26th June that it was essential to reach a conclusion in a matter of weeks, and a fortnight has since passed. In the meantime, the Government felt that it would be inconsistent with their approach to approve further special improvements in pay and conditions in their own direct area in this short period. If there is, as we hope for, an adequate response to the Government's proposals, the agreed new arrangements will apply to all workers, whether in the private or the public sector. If not, the situation to which I specifically referred in my financial statement would arise.

It has been wrongly suggested that the Government have been discriminating against public service employees. This argument ignores the reality that outside the public sector the question is not whether improvements will be granted on top of the standard increases provided in the national agreement but whether, indeed, the standard increases themselves can be met. Many firms have pleaded, since the signing of the national agreement, their own inability to pay. I wish to stress that there has been no unilateral suspension of agreed procedures. These remain at the disposal of the staff and cover a wider range of matters than the ones I have mentioned. It is highly probable that the issue of special increases generally will have been disposed of before, in the normal way, the question of giving a special concession to fresh arbitration findings arises. These, then, were the proposals put before the parties to national agreement.

Unfortunately, there is a wide divergence between the attitude so far of the two sides. The Executive Council of the ICTU have indicated that they have called a special delegate conference for the 31st July. They are recommending that the third and fourth stages of the national agreement be adjusted to provide an increase of 1 per cent in wages for every 1 per cent of the consumer price index and that such increases, unlike those in the existing agreement, would not be subject to minima or maxima. They have expressed opposition to any amendment of the provision regarding special increases. On the other hand, the employers, while welcoming the removal of the floor of standard increases, considered that the ceiling of 5 per cent must be maintained.

They have also stressed the burden which the implementation of equal pay would place on firms which are already finding great difficulty in surviving. At a time when so many of their members were finding it a severe strain to meet the standard increases of the national agreement, they fully supported the proposal on special increases. Obviously, there is a very wide gap between the parties. Final decisions have yet to be taken. Deputies will be aware that I am looking forward to meeting the two sides this weekend. I have no wish, and I am sure no Member of the House has, to say anything which would in any way endanger the outcome of these very very serious deliberations.

As far as equal pay is concerned, my colleague, the Minister for Labour, has indicated his willingness to give serious consideration to joint representations from trade unions and employers. I shall, therefore, simply restate the choices facing us in the present economic difficulty. We must wind down inflation if we are to protect jobs and ensure reasonable living standards for our people. The Government package is aimed at slowing down the rise by 4 percentage points and by protecting jobs. It would be impossible for the Exchequer to find resources to provide that package if they had to meet in full the terms of the national agreement, as they at present stand. I am sure that in their deliberations over the next few days all concerned will be fully conscious of what is at stake for the community as a whole, and not merely for their own particular interests, in the decisions to be taken. It is a real test for our maturity as a nation.

We are asking for restraints instead of imposing them because we prefer positive co-operation instead of negative dictation. We have asked the better-off to pay a little more tax and we have trimmed that burden according to ability to pay and family responsibility. We are reducing the price of basic foods, public transport, electricity, gas, clothes and footwear. That gives relief to everybody. We have been harsh on nobody. We trust that the common sense of all will produce co-operation.

Are we too trusting? Are we wrong to strive for co-operation instead of confrontation? Are we expecting too much of our modern society which rejects constraint, jeers patience and mocks self-denial? If the Government's measures to beat inflation are not equalled by income restraints the fault will not lie with those measures but with attitudes and elements in our society. The most fruitful and expeditious way to economic salvation is to have a right climate of opinion. We are bending all our energies to create that opinion. If we fail we will at least have had the satisfaction of trying. We consider it is better to have failed, having tried, than not have tried at all.

Do not tell us what we know, because we do not want to hear it, is an attitude which certainly prevails. But no problems of this world are settled by running away from them. We have asked all the people to face them together. Most people realise the problems and are willing to face them. The Government will not allow any sectional interest to frustrate that common will in the interest of the common welfare. If any such interest causes problems the Government will not run away from them, the Government will face them. The degree to which the people respond to the Government's suggestion for the revision of income expectation will have a strong bearing on whether or not more stringent measures will be necessary. We do not seek more stringent measures. We seek co-operation and we look forward in confidence to a continuation of the deliberations which commenced following our budget proposals.

Finally, may I say, with regret, that it seems that the budget speeches from the Opposition were opposition for opposition's sake. They offered no assistance, no suggestions whatsoever in regard to our economic difficulties.

The Government did not listen.

The question to be asked is what would Fianna Fáil do?

We told the Government what to do.

Judging by their contributions in this debate they would do absolutely nothing. They have done nothing except to accuse and abuse and it is to be hoped that in the difficulties that are immediately ahead they will act with a little more unanimity amongst themselves. It must be a constant cause of embarrassment to my shadow spokesman opposite to have so many contradicting him. I merely ask for a reduction in expenditure and a reduction in borrowing and a reduction in taxation for the Opposition to demand more and more expenditure. When the Opposition have worked out their own economic policies let them come forward. We will be interested. The country is now working towards its economic salvation. It is sad to find in these days the Opposition so wanting in any ideas at all.

Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 72; Níl, 68.

  • Barry, Peter.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Belton, Luke.
  • Belton, Paddy.
  • Bermingham, Joseph.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Burke, Dick.
  • Burke, Joan T.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Byrne, Hugh.
  • Clinton, Mark A.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Collins, Edward.
  • Conlan, John F.
  • Coogan, Fintan.
  • Esmonde, John G.
  • Finn, Martin.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Cavan).
  • Flanagan, Oliver J.
  • Gilhawley, Eugene.
  • Governey, Desmond.
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hegarty, Patrick.
  • Hogan O'Higgins, Brigid.
  • Jones, Denis F.
  • Kavanagh, Liam.
  • Keating, Justin.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Kenny, Henry.
  • Kyne, Thomas A.
  • L'Estrange, Gerald.
  • Lynch, Gerard.
  • McDonald, Charles B.
  • Cooney, Patrick M.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Costello, Declan.
  • Coughlan, Stephen.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Crotty, Kieran.
  • Cruise-O'Brien, Conor.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Desmond, Eileen.
  • Dockrell, Henry P.
  • Dockrell, Maurice.
  • Donegan, Patrick S.
  • Donnellan, John.
  • Dunne, Thomas.
  • Enright, Thomas.
  • McLaughlin, Joseph.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Malone, Patrick.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • O'Brien, Fergus.
  • O'Connell, John.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Leary, Michael.
  • O'Sullivan, John L.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Reynolds, Patrick J.
  • Ryan, John J.
  • Ryan, Richie.
  • Spring, Dan.
  • Staunton, Myles.
  • Taylor, Frank.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Toal, Brendan.
  • Tully, James.
  • White, James.

Níl

  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Blaney, Neil T.
  • Brady, Philip A.
  • Brennan, Joseph.
  • Breslin, Cormac.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Brosnan, Seán.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Brugha, Ruairí.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Callanan, John.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Carter, Frank.
  • Colley, George.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Connolly, Gerard.
  • Crinion, Brendan.
  • Cronin, Jerry.
  • Crowley, Flor.
  • Cunningham, Liam.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Davern, Noel.
  • de Valera, Vivion.
  • Dowling, Joe.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Farrell, Joseph.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Fitzgerald, Gene.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Dublin Central).
  • Flanagan, Seán.
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Denis.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Gibbons, Hugh.
  • Gibbons, James.
  • Gogan, Richard P.
  • Haughey, Charles.
  • Healy, Augustine A.
  • Herbert, Michael.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Lalor, Patrick J.
  • Leonard, James.
  • Loughnane, William.
  • Lynch, Celia.
  • Lynch, Jack.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Meaney, Tom.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Moore, Seán.
  • Murphy, Ciarán.
  • Nolan, Thomas.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • O'Connor, Timothy.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Desmond.
  • Power, Patrick.
  • Smith, Patrick.
  • Timmins, Eugene.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Wyse, Pearse.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Kelly and B. Desmond; Níl, Deputies Lalor and Browne.
Question declared carried.
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