Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 22 Oct 1975

Vol. 285 No. 1

Tourist Traffic Bill, 1975: Second Stage.

Minister for Transport and Power (Mr. P. Barry)

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The purpose of the Bill is to provide for a new tourism development fund, from which advances can be made to Bord Fáilte towards the cost of capital works, other than holiday accommodation, which will assist Irish tourism; to raise the statutory limit on the aggregate amount of money which may be paid to the board for the giving of grants for holiday accommodation; and to make provision for the control of the remuneration of the chief officer of the board.

Mr. Brennan

Is the Minister circulating a copy of his speech?

Mr. P. Barry

Yes.

Mr. Brennan

Quite frankly, we cannot hear him.

Mr. P. Barry

I am sorry, but it is not my fault; I am not making the noise.

The new fund will replace the major resort development fund inaugurated under the Tourist Traffic Act, 1959. This Act provided for the payment to Bord Fáilte of sums not exceeding £1 million for the giving of grants for the development of major tourist resorts. In all, 19 resorts and resort areas were improved. Under the scheme, the board provided grants to enable such essential work as basic site development, the provision of facilities such as toilets, shelters, car parks, promenades, parks and other recreational facilities to be undertaken. The works were undertaken in co-operation with local authorities and other local tourist development interests who were required to provide a local contribution of not less than 20 per cent.

The planning and execution of these works necessitated negotiations with many interests which tended to prolong the carrying out of the various development plans. The financial provision for the resort scheme was increased from the initial £1 million in 1959, by amending legislation, to £3.25 million in 1966 and to £4 million in 1972. Advances to Bord Fáilte have now reached the statutory limit of £4 million set in 1972. The board's expenditure under the resort scheme was supplemented by a further £2 million investment by local authorities and other interests. It is fair to say that, prior to the introduction of the resort scheme there had been virtually no public or private investment in amenity and recreational infrastructure. This situation has been radically altered in the 19 areas mentioned. Apart from expenditure under the major resort scheme, Bord Fáilte contributed, from the funds allocated for the general administration and activities of the board and, in 1972-73, from a special amenity development works fund a further £4½ million towards the cost of other capital works of benefit to tourism—on field sports and commercial promotions— boating, fishing, et cetera—minor resorts, amenity development, historic buildings and signposting.

As the major resort scheme neared completion, Bord Fáilte carried out a detailed examination of the existing supply of tourist facilities, of likely tourist demand and of development policy needed to match supply with demand. This examination has shown that good environmental quality is all important. Fishing, river cruising, golf, coach and car touring will only attract visitors if set within a pleasing environment. Unspoiled surroundings are becoming increasingly scarce and the need and demand by people living in urban areas to spend some time in more relaxed surroundings is growing. The pressure on existing resources is such that the quality which attracts the visitor is being eroded. The board are concerned—and I fully share their concern—that this erosion needs to be halted.

To that end, the board have proposed a new tourism conservation policy based on the idea of designated areas. They have identified and mapped those areas of the country which by virtue of their natural and man-made resources, and their existing and potential tourism use are critical to the future growth of the industry and consequently must be safeguarded. Basically the designation idea is a method of clearly demonstrating the land use requirements of tourism and staking a claim for tourism's share of the nation's natural resources.

A draft designated areas map has been prepared by the board to serve as a basis for consultation with the local authorities. It is the board's eventual aim to persuade the local authorities to incorporate the designated areas into their statutory development plans. The board's approach, which is incorporated in a draft tourism development plan, has been well received so far by local authorities. The conservation policy outlined by the board involves strengthening their role as a prescribed body under the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act, 1963, increased liaison with the local authorities, who are guardians of the environment, and carrying out environmental development and setting standards.

The board have also formulated a zoning strategy aimed at stimulating a balanced mix of facilities within an area which offers a natural focal point for tourism activity. In all, almost 90 tourism planning zones are envisaged. By concentrating on specific zones it is easier to determine the type and quantity of facilities required within the area. The board's role is one of stimulating the development of tourism facilities through providing financial support and advice. Such development would include joint development with bodies such as the Office of Public Works and the Forestry and Wildlife Service on conservation, recreational and educational projects, for example, national parks, forest parks and interpretative centres on the lines of the centre recently opened at Cahir Castle. It would also include expenditure by Bord Fáilte aimed at encouraging the improvement of facilities by those directly involved in the tourist industry, that is, in relation to sailing and water sports, horse-riding, horsedrawn caravans, sea angling, swimming pools, recreation complexes, et cetera.

To enable Bord Fáilte to contribute to the projects mentioned—activities which were previously financed under the major resort scheme and also, in part, from the funds allocated for the board's general administration and activities—a new tourism development fund is being established under section 2 of the Bill. The new fund will have an initial statutory limit on advances of £4.75 million which should be sufficient to meet the board's requirements for the next few years. The provision in the Bill is of an enabling nature and the amounts to be provided in each year will fall to be debated and voted by the Dáil in the normal way under the Vote for my Department.

Section 3 provides for an increase in the aggregate amount which may be paid to the board for the purpose of giving grants for the development of holiday accommodation. A grant scheme for this purpose was introduced initially under the Tourist Traffic Act, 1959, which authorised advances of up to £500,000 to Bord Fáilte. The grant scheme was adapted as necessary over the years to meet the needs of the growing tourist industry and the statutory limit was raised by subsequent Tourist Traffic Acts to the current limit of £13 million which was set in 1972.

The emphasis throughout the sixties was on the provision of additional accommodation but, in 1969, the board began a general embargo on new grant commitments in respect of additional hotel and guesthouse development as the existing stock of accommodation was considered adequate to meet the needs of the industry for some years ahead.

In general moneys voted for holiday accommodation grants since 1969 were initially used by the board to reduce the backlog of grants due to developers and then to meet outstanding pre-1969 commitments as they matured for payment. A few outstanding commitments still fall to be met within the next few years.

The significant downturn in tourism since 1969 posed considerable problems for the industry. Following a study of the hotel industry which Bord Fáilte commissioned in 1973, I authorised the introduction of a scheme of grants to help hotels and guesthouse owners to carry out repairs and renewals which, due to the earlier tourism difficulties, they would otherwise be unable to undertake— and to help with improvements to premises, the provision of amenities and facilities for guests and staff accommodation.

The scheme was introduced in June, 1974, and progress up to the end of that year was disappointing. Since then, however, interest in the scheme has improved to the stage where by the end of last month 83 applications in respect of grants totalling just over £250,000 had been approved under the repairs and renewals scheme and 95 applications representing grants of approximately £540,000 were approved under the improvements and amenities scheme. In addition, the board had received firm inquiries likely to result in total grants under the two schemes of almost £660,000. Many more hotels and guesthouses are very much in need of refurbishing and improvement and I would hope that the operators will avail of the grant schemes mentioned— indeed, for the future of the tourist industry, it is vital that they do so.

I see the board's role in the accommodation sector as one of encouraging the provision of a balanced and viable supply of accommodation which meets the needs of the expected number of tourists. To this end, as part of the tourism planning strategy, the board have been assessing the existing stock of accommodation and future requirements within each of the planning zones I mentioned earlier. As regards hotels and guesthouses, in general the emphasis will continue to be on improving the quality of accommodation and providing amenities for guests rather than on the provision of additional accommodation.

The board have been financially assisting the provision of camping and caravan sites and will encourage the development of further parks and the extension of existing sites to meet the demands in this particular area.

By the end of the current year advances to Bord Fáilte from the holiday accommodation fund will be approaching £12 million. I propose in section 3 to raise the statutory limit on advances from £13 million to £16 million. This should be sufficient to meet the board's requirements in financing the improvement and development of holiday accommodation on the lines I have mentioned over the next three or four years. As in the case of the tourism development fund the amount to be allocated in any particular year will be included in the annual Vote for my Department.

The control on the remuneration of the board's chief officer, provided for in sections 4 and 5, arises from the general policy of taking the remuneration of the chief executives of semi-State bodies under control as and when the opportunity arises. The intention is to allow the board freedom to fix the total remuneration of the chief executive within the range approved by me with the consent of the Minister for the Public Service. The ranges of remuneration for chief executives of semi-State bodies are those set by the Review Body on Higher Remuneration in the Public Sector in their report of 11th July, 1972, updated by the addition of increases in pay agreed under recent national pay agreements.

I consider it appropriate at this stage to say something about the present tourism situation. We have had a small but encouraging improvement in results in the past three years. After allowing for inflation, 1973 revenue from tourism was up about 7 per cent on 1972, which was the worst year in tourism terms for ten years. The recovery was maintained in 1974 when there was a modest increase of almost 2 per cent and it is expected that revenue in the current year will reach the target of a 4 per cent increase in real terms which was set by Bord Fáilte. For next year, the board have been working on the basis of a 7 per cent increase.

As we are all very much aware, factors beyond the control of the tourist industry can have very adverse effects on the numbers of visitors coming to Ireland. I think, however, that the storm has now been weathered and that the industry is on its way to recovery. But it is the job of those in the tourist industry, and, indeed, the public at large, to ensure that the recovery is maintained. Bord Fáilte have been doing a good job, in difficult circumstances, in promoting Ireland abroad. Adequate funds have been, and will continue to be, made available for that purpose. The funds towards the improvement and development of facilities and accommodation which can be made available under this Bill will also help. But this will not be enough.

The Government can help the industry only if the industry helps itself. The tourists will return if they get value for money, if they get good service, good meals and clean and comfortable accommodation. On a broader level the protection of the environment and the maintenance of our cities, towns and villages in an attractive state are matters which concern us all. Those in the business of promoting and developing Irish tourism will continue to stress the importance of these aspects but, unless we respond to their advice, the tourist industry will not be able to take full advantage of the opportunities for renewed growth now offered.

I confidently recommend the Bill for approval.

A Cheann Comhairle, as the House has ordered, it is proposed to take Supplementary Estimate No. 6, which is a token Estimate for £10, in conjunction with the Second Reading of the Bill.

When the 1975 Estimates for my Department were being settled, £600,000 was allocated to subhead F2, which relates to grants to Bord Fáilte for the major resort development scheme, in the knowledge that advances of only £62,283 would bring total issues in respect of the scheme to the statutory limit of £4 million. The intention was to transfer the balance of £537,717 later to a new subhead in respect of the tourism development fund envisaged in the Tourist Traffic Bill, 1975, which was then in preparation.

Passage of the Supplementary Estimate will enable me to make advances to Bord Fáilte for the tourism development fund when the Bill has been enacted. These advances will be used by the board for the purposes outlined in my Second Reading speech.

I recommend the Supplementary Estimate for the approval of the House.

Before I sit down I should like to take this opportunity to congratulate Deputy Leonard on his promotion and to wish him well in his new responsibilities.

Mr. Leonard

I thank the Minister for his congratulations and I compliment him on the fact that additional moneys are being made available for the tourist industry though we may not always agree on how they should be used.

When increased grants are requested either by a private individual or by a State body it is only reasonable there should be a full and proper examination of that person or body to establish how effectively previous grants have been applied, how the additional moneys are to be used and whether the required results could be achieved without additional funds. To examine effectively the use made of money previously granted to Bord Fáilte it is necessary to have a look at the operations of this body.

Certain functions are allocated to regional tourist boards in different areas. The area covered by those regional tourist boards is quite extensive and at times there is little common grounds between the different regions. Occasionally there could be a conflict of interest between large seaside resorts and inland areas. In my own county there are many different interests.

The Minister and the Government can help the tourist industry only if the industry helps itself. That is true. We also need local co-operation and involvement to help the tourist boards and Bord Fáilte. Recently the new chairman of the Ulster Tourist Development Organisation, Mr. Victor McCausland, made the case for co-operation very effectively to his organisation.

This brings me to the funding of tourist development generally. No matter how much money the Minister may make available for the development and improvement of tourism and tourist facilities more money must be provided privately. Progress in tourism depends on finance at reasonable rates. The agricultural industry, the manufacturing industry and the tourist industry are the three largest fields of endeavour. It has been found necessary to provide agriculture and industry with banking services of their own. The Agricultural Credit Corporation and the Industrial Credit Corporation provide banking services. The needs of these industries are best served by specialised banks. Such banks are in a position to assess the viability of projects for which loans are sought and also to provide interest free, deferred interest or low interest loans for industry.

The tourist industry would benefit by having its own banking service to meet its needs. We have had economic difficulties for some time and the tourist industry had difficulty in securing loan accommodation. It is essential to have a specialised bank available for the tourist industry. When one talks of the value of tourism to a country one cannot speak in money terms alone because it yields many benefits on which one cannot put a price tag.

Mr. P. Barry

Hear, hear.

Mr. Leonard

It brings people from different areas and countries, of different classes and creeds together, and helps to foster peace and understanding. With the dreadful almost daily happenings in the North we need badly anything that helps to foster such peace and understanding. For many thousands of people from the North a holiday each year in this part of the country is something to be desired. They seem to enjoy themselves and certainly are most welcome here. Perhaps if people on both sides of the Border made a point of visiting the other side on holiday it might contribute in a big way to ending the present conflict.

The traditional centres of tourism in Ireland, with the exception of Killarney, are seaside resorts. A major portion of moneys being made available by the Bill before the House to Bord Fáilte Éireann will be expended on development of those centres. While a strong case can be made for the placing of emphasis on development in selected centres, it is very important that the programme is not allowed to become one-sided in favour of such centres. During the last decade it has been recognised generally that many visitors are attracted to quiet, inland areas, especially in places where fishing, boating, climbing and other facilities are available. People living in crowded, urban conditions in many industrialised countries, especially in countries where there is at present severe pollution, are attracted to an unspoiled, rural area. That aspect of tourism is far from having been fully exploited and possesses great potential. While the quiet, peaceful countryside is the main attraction in rural areas, it must be realised that certain basic amenities and facilities must be made available in those areas for potential tourists. While laudable efforts have been made by local organisations and regional tourist boards, especially in scattered areas, those are not sufficient. This is especially true in regard to facilities dispersed over a wide area rather than confined to a particular seaside resort. Such benefits could be guaranteed only if a regional tourist organisation were operative in each area, when tourists would have available to them a wider choice of facilities.

That brings me to the facilities required in those inland areas apart from accommodation. For example, I think in terms of facilities being made available at or on our lakes, such as platforms, landing stages, boats, well marked access paths, parking facilities, clearly marked walks, with seats and shelters being provided also at vantage points along such scenic walks. To provide such facilities for tourists a high degree of co-operation is needed from local landowners and also local, voluntary effort, a type of co-operation which is unlikely to be achieved by a regional tourist body. For example, one thinks of the old bugbear of gates being allowed to wander. That problem could be overcome by the provision of stiles, requiring also the consent and co-operation of local landowners. Such was carried out in the past under amenity schemes and it is a pity that such schemes have been discontinued. For the benefit of tourists it is a pity that we cannot give access to all our scenic views and lakes.

Accommodation is the most important consideration for any holidaymaker. Alone it is probably the factor that can make or break a holiday. While there may have been an overconcentration by Bord Fáilte Éireann on accommodation to the neglect of other factors affecting a holiday, accommodation remains the most important one. In examining that aspect, it is essential that the range of accommodation required be kept in mind. Formerly there was a tendency to think only in in terms of hotel beds, whereas the range of accommodation extends from luxury hotels to the family hotel, the guesthouse, bed and breakfast accommodation in private houses, self-catering accommodation, farmhouse accommodation, right down to caravans and tents, the users of all such accommodation making a contribution to the tourist industry. Therefore, every effort should be made to accommodate them right across the board.

In the self-catering field, Bord Fáilte Éireann in their last report conceded that not sufficient had been done to develop that aspect of tourism and noted that such had been widely utilised in other countries. I noted in the report also the use of the expression: "supplementary accommodation list to cover those establishments not listed under hotels and guesthouses" which I think should be discontinued because, when one read about such supplementary accommodation, immediately one began to think that people were being accommodated in stables or some such places.

Various efforts have been made to establish a satisfactory grading system for hotels which do not appear to have reaped satisfactory results so far. The provision of amusement equipment for children at hotels should also be made a requirement.

Hotels have been exempted from price control by the National Prices Commission, and while there is sound reasoning in that one cannot but be concerned in case the unscrupulous few would cash in on the situation. I would ask the Minister to ensure that a close check be kept on prices in the interest of the good name of the industry. I also noted in the Bord Fáilte Éireann Report the trends in the use of various forms of accommodation and, in relation to their intentions for January-December, 1975, they say in the report:

It can be seen that there has been a pronounced swing in the demand for accommodation from hotels and guesthouses towards other forms of accommodation.

This major change has been noted in Britain, North America, continental Europe and many other areas, and I thought that perhaps the Minister would have dealt with that in his speech. Seeing that the measure before the House provides for an increase of £3 million in the provision for accommodation, it is important that the major trend in the use of accommodation should be noted and its implications realised. In the document from which I have quoted about the swing away from the use of hotels and guesthouses, they should have been more specific as to where the actual swing was.

The quality of food is a major factor in a holiday. In a foodproducing country such as ours it is of the utmost importance that our visitors should be served with fresh and well-cooked food, and there should be adequate variety. Traditional Irish dishes should figure on the menus of our hotels and guesthouses. Home cooking has a particular appeal for many tourists. While many of the better restaurants measure up to the highest standard, many others in smaller centres are less than satisfactory.

The licensing of restaurants has also been a problem. There is much calling for the allocation of licences to restaurants in particular areas, and if we are seriously in the tourist industry it is a service we must provide. There should be a review of the licensing situation. It has been shown before that the lengthening of the licensing hours for the tourist season would not in itself cause any increase in drunkenness any more than prohibition stopped drinking years ago in America. Some years ago there were longer drinking hours and I do not think it had any ill effect on drinking habits.

I mentioned earlier the question of amenities in hotels. The provision of wet weather facilities for the holidaymaker should be a requirement. While it is true that no indoor activities can make up for outdoor activities, the provision of such facilities is important, especially in our climate. Their provision can be costly but you could have a range of them especially for children, such as swings, slides and sand boxes, with an inexpensive cover. If at all possible, there should also be a children's playroom equipped with simple games in some outbuilding.

The schools and colleges are closed for most of the summer period and part of the equipment there could probably be made available for local bodies providing facilities for children. In regard to bathing facilities, while for a small country we have a very long coastline and many sandy beaches, the total length of the sandy beaches is not that great, and people on holidays are often surprised at the very limited extent of those beaches. Provision should be made for open air, salt-water baths at locations which are removed from sandy beaches.

There are many inland areas where there are beautiful lakes and these areas could be developed for bathing and as general recreation centres. In my own county there is a small lake of 33 acres which was handed over to the local guild of Muintir na Tíre by the Land Commission when they were dividing an estate. The Muintir na Tíre guild developed it, provided slides, removed dangerous rocks and stones from around the bathing shelter on the beach; they provided walks and car parks and even provided a caretaker to gather the litter. Thousands of people availed of these facilities in the past year, and it brings to mind other lakes in these inland areas, 30, 40 and 50 miles from seaside resorts that could be developed to the advantage not only of the tourist but of the local population. I hope that in the future money will be provided in fairly substantial amounts for the development of such projects. The Minister was scant in his reference to pollution. At one point he said:

On a broader level the protection of the environment and the maintenance of our cities, towns and villages in an attractive state are matters which concern us all.

Bord Fáilte and the various agencies concerned with tourism have always emphasised in their literature that this country is almost free of pollution. However, in the near future this is not likely to be an attraction because we have found in recent times that there has been an increased level of pollution in our rivers and lakes. The Irish Times of 11th October published an an article entitled “Killarney Pollution Report warns that a disaster may be in store”. The article by Mr. Donal Musgrave stated:

The lower lake of Killarney is facing a "serious and potentially dangerous" pollution problem that should be tackled immediately by a proper lake management programme, according to the confidential Bracken Report, published today.

When one reads this report one asks if we are serious about the pollution problem. This is the third report dealing with the matter. Some people used those reports to scare the people. However, we must regard pollution as a serious problem and we must try to find a remedy if it is not to have a serious effect on our environment and our attraction as a tourist area. I hope the Government will take immediate action in relation to this report.

Transport is an important factor in relation to tourism. The cost of transport has reached a very high level in recent years and has added greatly to the cost of holidays. It is essential that a good, frequent and reasonably-priced transport service be available to visitors. The cost of transport to a person coming to this country forms the major part of the cost of his holiday. There have been severe increases in relation to the cost of air, boat and car transport so that this could have an effect on the number of tourists coming to the country and also on the amount of money they have available to spend while here.

I believe that serious consideration must be given to the suggestion that some support should be given to visitors so that we will not turn them away because of high transport costs. This is a difficult matter and is only something which could be considered in extreme circumstances, but it is important that something is done to attract visitors to the country. We should also take into consideration the high cost of heating hotels. Many of them feel the pinch because of the massive increases in the price of oil in recent years.

The various tourist agencies throughout the country frequently refer to signposting in various parts of the country. It is essential that all towns, all routes and places of interest be adequately signposted. While there has been a big improvement in recent years, the situation is still far from satisfactory. Although route disignations appear on maps it is very seldom they appear on the signposts. The signposting of places of interest is not adequate. Road signs should be suitably placed but fuller information regarding places of interest is also required. A short history of the particular premises or place of interest should be given on a plaque so that people know exactly what they can see. The various historical societies, the National Museum and the Office of Public Works could provide information and advice on such matters. Our signposts should be up to international standards.

Lay-bys are far from adequate. Many of our major roads have not got any. Picnic tables and seats should be normal provision at all of them especially in scenic areas. A local organisation in my area were in consultation with the Minister about a particular scenic drive over a mountain on the Monaghan-Tyrone border. The local residents felt that this drive should be developed for tourists and also because there was a lot of turbary in that mountain area. When they asked for money they were told it was not available for this operation. It is a pity that in such a particular scenic area this money could not have been provided. The Minister for Transport and Power or the Minister for Local Government should provide money for such work.

Mr. White

Tourism is one of our major industries but I feel we do not spend enough time in this House discussing it. We should not forget that every £ we take in from a foreign tourist is the same as an industrialist selling an article worth a £ abroad. Every £ received from foreign tourists is money into the national Exchequer. Tourism is our third major industry but we have not given enough thought to it or spent enough money on it during the last 15 years.

I should like to be as confident as the Minister when he says he believes that the storm has been weathered. I believe that as far as tourism is concerned the storm will never be weathered until we have peace in this country. It is amazing when you travel abroad, as so many of us often do, and you speak to English and Scottish people, without counting the Continentals, about Ireland. Many people tell you they were there ten years ago, perhaps before the trouble began, but they certainly would not think of coming back so long as the trouble continues. I am sure the previous speaker knows as well as I do, coming from a Border county, the difficulty of trying to explain that this trouble is predominantly in the Six Counties. It is of no avail and they regard the 32-county Ireland as being a place where people are fighting and killing each other as is happening in the Six Counties. It is sad that the socalled super-Irishmen do not get their priorities right and work first for peace in the country and try to build up the economy especially through the tourist trade.

The trouble is only one of our problems in that industry. We have four major problems and the trouble in the land is number one. We also have to give people good value for money which in many cases at present is not being done: we must improve the standard of accommodation because in many of our present hotels the standard is not as high as it should be. Finally, our environment could be greatly improved. When getting off the ferry from the Continent last year the first thing that struck me was the difference in the way our environment is preserved as evidenced in our roads and countryside compared with the way these are kept on the Continent. One must go to other countries to realise how concerned other people are about their environment. I always congratulate people who run competitions such as "Tidy Towns" and so on aimed at keeping the environment clean. We cannot sufficiently emphasise how important it is to keep Ireland tidy. It might be a good idea if Bord Fáilte had car stickers to remind us to keep Ireland tidy. Courses were run in the primary schools some time ago encouraging children to keep the country tidy and these were effective at the time but such courses need to be renewed every few months.

I agree with the Minister that probably at present we have sufficient bed accommodation. We have a certain amount of first class accommodation but frequently, in country areas particularly, we find a hotel which five or ten years ago had a great reputation but now when you go and stay there you find the accommodation is not what it should be. It takes very little to keep a place clean and tidy—just a little care. Bord Fáilte should tighten up on this aspect of the trade.

Also, we do not do enough in regard to displaying prices. I think it is a good idea for a hotel restaurant to display prices and menus outside the door so that people can see the position before they enter and will know what they are paying for. Frequently also, accommodation price lists are hidden so that nobody can see what he is paying for. One may say: "Why cannot people ask"? but many people like to go in and see what they are paying for and like to get what they pay for.

I have often wondered where the 10 per cent service charge goes in the hotel business. I have no doubt that the 10 per cent finds its way to the staff in some hotels but I have also no doubt that it never finds its way to the staff in many cases. Bord Fáilte should see that if people pay the 10 per cent service charge it should go to the staff as an added incentive to them to bring the hotel up to a proper standard.

Recently, like my fellow Donegal Deputy opposite, I was at a function associated with a tour organised to bring back people from Glasgow to Donegal and it struck me that Bord Fáilte should give more grants to encourage tour operators all over Ireland to bring more tourists home from Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, London and so on. Small county organisations do a certain amount of this but there is great potential in this field to encourage people to spend more time at home here. People may say: "We want to go to the sun" but when one has been in the sun for nine or ten days one asks: "Really what has this place to offer?" Apart from the sun, there is little people can do there compared with what we can do at home. We cannot offer the sun and we should not try to sell it therefore. Neither should we try to sell bathing facilities based on good weather but we have tremendous facilities which we should try to sell.

While abroad on a course recently, I was surprised how many people had come to this resort to dive. Good weather is not required for a diving holiday. We have a great coastline, particularly in the west, for this up-and-coming sport. We can offer many people horse riding. It may be said that Bord Fáilte is doing that. True, but we are not putting enough emphasis on this type of holiday. We can offer fishing. One sees people going abroad to fish and one wonders why because they catch very few fish. We have great fishing facilities along our coasts. The two great things we have to offer in Ireland and which we must sell, are our personality and our scenery. Our type of scenery is unbeatable anywhere in the world.

I welcome this Bill. Under the previous scheme for the development of major resorts much good work was done at some of our resorts but much more requires to be done. In June when the Minister introduced the two new schemes there was one whereby a hotelier could get a grant up to 50 per cent for improving facilities in his hotel. The second scheme was for replacement which I think should not have been tied to turnover but should also be a straightforward scheme like the first one. In welcoming this Bill I should like to express the view that I do not think we are spending enough money to promote the tremendous natural resources we have.

This year a great number of Irish people went abroad for holidays but our people should think twice before going abroad; they should remember that they cannot lie in the sun for 14 days and do nothing.

Mr. Barrett

I welcome this Bill because it is only proper that we should provide more money for tourism which is recognised as our third largest industry. It should be remembered that we get the full benefit from money earned from tourism because we do not have to import any raw materials like we do for industries. Money earned from tourism is more beneficial to the economy, than anything earned by industrialists and we must strive to earn more from tourism. Bord Fáilte and those involved in tourism should take a hard look at the industry and prepare plans for the future. I understand Bord Fáilte intend publishing a new national plan in January and I expect we will be asked to vote moneys for the implementation of that plan. A number of the regional tourism organisations are also engaged in the preparation of development plans and in this regard I should like to congratulate the Mid-Western Regional Tourism Organisation who yesterday published a 5-year plan for their region. That plan contains many admirable ideas and it is the first such plan to be published.

The idea behind the plan of that organisation, and I presume the same will apply to Bord Fáilte's plan, is to develop the natural amenities of the area. It is not the intention to try to sell sunshine holidays but to promote the natural amenities. It is right that a region should prepare a plan expressing the aspirations of the area. As well as attracting Irish people home we should also concentrate on encouraging foreigners to spend their holidays here. I accept we have had a few bad years as far as tourism is concerned and I trust that the many days of sunshine we experienced this year will improve the situation. The number of foreigners who spent their holidays in the mid-western region was well up on last year and there was also an increase in the number of transit passengers at Shannon Airport.

The charter element was the biggest factor in the increase in the number of tourists. We should examine this matter and see if it will be possible to develop more charter flights. Tourism could be developed faster if we had more charter flights. I accept that Aer Lingus must endeavour to maintain and make viable their scheduled flights but if we are to bring in more tourists we will have to develop the charter area. Aer Lingus will have to consider developing charter flights on their North Atlantic route, a route which is the biggest loser as far as the company are concerned. We should also consider the effect the putting into full service of Concorde would have on Aer Lingus who recently acquired a number of jumbo-jets. The company have had great difficulty in finding sufficient work for the jumbos and in making them pay. One of those aircraft had to be leased. It will be difficult for Aer Lingus to compete if Concorde goes into service on the North Atlantic route.

The Minister, and other speakers, mentioned the amenities we are endowed with, fishing, golf, horse-riding and pony-trekking. It should also be remembered that our beaches are never overcrowded. We should be in a position to publicise these attractions. While the weather this year was excellent we cannot depend on it and for this reason we must develop our natural amenities. It is not possible for Bord Fáilte to develop those amenities on their own; they will have to be assisted by local bodies. The provision of access roads to these amenities is a matter for local authorities and I accept that they have always played their part in promoting tourism and I expect that they will continue to do so as funds become available. These authorities, and groups like the Shannon Free Airport Development Company, have done an excellent job in promoting tourism over the years. The latter company has been a tremendous promotional agent for the mid-western region in North America.

According to CIE they did not have such a good year. They fear that by 1976 there will not be sufficient hotel rooms to meet the number of tourists. This is a most unusual statement when we read that CIE are selling their hotels. There seems to be a contradiction here. In the light of their statement today they should consider whether selling their hotels is good business or not.

Bord Fáilte will have to be the major agents for promotional activities in the regions. My region and others will be dependent on them for funds to attract tourists. In the past they concentrated very successfully on North America, Britain and, to some extent, Western Europe. Bord Fáilte have now spread their promotional activities to other areas— Australia, New Zealand and Japan. It is very questionable whether this is money well spent and if we can expect a reasonable return. Undoubtedly there will be some success but, in my opinion, it will not be of any great consequence.

Naturally, we must have some contact with our people who emigrated to Australia. Most of the people who come to Ireland from Australia and New Zealand do so because they were originally Irish or of Irish extraction. It has been said that if we promoted Ireland more in Australia the number of tourists who visit Britain—which is very large—might be encouraged to extend their visit to Ireland. From my inquiries the numbers who have done this as a result of the promotional activities of Bord Fáilte is minimal.

Why should Bord Fáilte spend money pioneering a new market when money which could be spent to more effect promoting tourists from Western Europe is scarce? In the past year a greater percentage of our tourists came from Western Europe than Great Britain or North America. This is the market on which we should concentrate. Western Europeans are very tourist conscious, as anyone who visited those countries will know. We should concentrate more in West Germany, France and the Netherlands. The Western Europeans appear to prefer to go abroad for holidays. To date the tendency has been towards the Mediterranean countries but, in due course, this trend will fade and they will seek other areas. We have fishing, horse-riding and other amenities to offer them and I am sure these amenities will hold great appeal for them. For this reason Bord Fáilte should divert much of their activities into this area.

Western Europe is right on our doorstep. It is less expensive and easier for European tourists to come here than it is for tourists to come from Australia, New Zealand and Japan. As I said, Bord Fáilte should set out to attract Western Europeans to this country. It should be part and parcel of their national plan which, I understand, is to be issued next January. As they know from experience, the Western European market could be tapped more than it has been heretofore. Recently, some Western European tourist agents met in Killarney and I am sure everyone will be pleased with the results of that visit.

Another facet of tourism which is peculiar to the south and west of Ireland is rent-a-cottage. This industry has an excellent record since its establishment. This area should be further developed but this cannot be done unless more funds are provided. At present they boast an 80 per cent occupancy. As far as I know this is a record in the tourist world. There are 13 locations spread over five counties along the south and west to Mayo. There are a total of 117 cottages and they have 50 further applications in the south and west to build similar cottages. They cannot possibly hope to build these cottages because they will need further finance.

This is an independent company. It is not under the umbrella of the Shannon Development Company, the regional body or anybody else. The total investment so far has been £2.7 million, which is not very large when we take into account the success achieved since its establishment approximately 18 months ago. If this industry was given further financial backing, it would be an asset and a great help to the tourist industry by attracting more people here. People staying in these cottages probably cook their own breakfast but tend to have other meals out. The cash they spend is of great benefit to the surrounding villages.

I hope the national plan which we expect from Bord Fáilte next January will make more moneys available for the renting of Irish cottages. The total State investment so far in this very worthy tourist promotion has only been £200,000 out of a total investment of £2.7 million. They are entitled to greater consideration because the results with regard to occupancy and financial returns have been excellent. The development of such a concept must be acceptable to the board and to the Minister. If the money were made available another 100 cottages could be provided.

Money from the EEC Regional Fund should be made available for this purpose. As far as I know this is not possible at the moment. The people concerned cannot plead their own case; they are dependent on the State, through Bord Fáilte, in establishing their claim for some help. The tendency of those who operate the regional fund has been to put money into established projects. Bord Fáilte should do their utmost to help in this area. They should invest £ for £ in a viable project like this and thus help the people concerned to extend their operations for the benefit of tourism throughout the country.

Reference has been made to the licensing laws. The time has come to take a further look at this matter. It is ten years since the laws were updated and nobody can say that they were detrimental to the habits or the health of our people. It is embarrassing when visitors from Western Europe find that they cannot have a drink after 11 p.m. or 11.30 p.m. I had this experience not too long ago and all of us were before the local court as a result of staying on a little later. We should study our licensing laws and bring them somewhat nearer to continental laws or EEC licensing laws. We are a member of the Community and the standards of the institution should apply, especially where tourism is concerned. We do not need to have the public houses open all night; we do not need them open very much later in winter time, but during the tourist season we should try to accommodate visitors. They should be given the facilities they normally expect and get in their own countries.

The high cost of petrol seriously affects the tourist. Our climate is not like that of the Mediterranean countries and tourists to this country do not spend most of their time lying around in the sun. Here tourists tend to travel around the country and, consequently, the price of petrol is an important factor. It is quite possible, even probable, because of the recent increases in crude oil that petrol will be dearer in the next tourist season or sooner. Despite the increases being imposed by the OPEC countries we should not allow the oil companies— the majors, the multi-nationals or whatever name they are called—to do what they did previously, namely, to use the outer UK zone system. Under that system they succeeded in putting all the increases on petrol.

Petrol is absolutely essential for our tourists. If we are serious about making this country attractive for visitors, those whom we invite here in all our promotional activities, we should not allow increases in the cost of petrol. Any increases that may be necessary as a result of the proposal by the OPEC countries should be spread over all oil products and not confined solely to petrol as was the case in the past——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy will appreciate that is not a matter for the Minister for Transport and Power.

Mr. Barrett

With respect, we have had many debates in this House with regard to oil and it has always been the Minister for Transport and Power who was involved. That has been the case in the last 12 months. He is the Minister responsible for providing fuel oil, whether for the ESB or for tourists. In that context, I should be entitled to say that increases in petrol prices should not be countenanced at this time if we are serious about our tourism. The cost of petrol is an essential factor so far as tourists are concerned. Any loading of prices should not be confined to petrol but should be spread over all oil commodities in an effort to keep down the cost of petrol for tourists as well as for all motorists and those who are engaged in transport. In saying this I should like to point out that I do not want to be seen to be putting a bigger load on industry. At present heavy fuel oil, on which industry is dependent, is in plentiful supply and there are big stocks in the stockyards of the majors——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point regarding the control of prices.

Mr. Barrett

Petrol should not bear the brunt of further increases. It has borne that brunt to a great extent in the past. We should seriously consider this matter if we are interested in promoting our tourism.

Car ferry ships and passenger ships play a vital role in the tourist industry and I should like to know if the Minister is ready to issue a further statement with regard to the replacement of vessels for B & I and Irish Shipping for passenger and car ferry services. I am referring to the statement regarding the placing of orders in Japan for two or four new vessels as against placing the orders with the Verolme shipbuilding company at Cobh. A few weeks ago the Minister indicated he would be prepared to make a statement in the near future but we are still awaiting it. The prospect that the orders would be placed in Japan quite naturally was viewed very seriously by the community. I understand Irish Shipping some years ago gave an undertaking to a deputation of employees and management from their own dockyard, as well as to the TDs from the area, that they would not place further orders for the replacement of passenger or other ships without first acquainting the Minister for Transport and Power and giving Verolme, and Harland and Wolff who are also on our shores, an opportunity to quote for the building of the vessels. This is very important so far as Verolme Dockyard is concerned. Therefore we would like the Minister to reassure us that these orders have not been placed in Japan. Should it be the case that Japan is more competitive than Verolme for the building of these ships it would be for the Government to make available to Verolme a further subsidy so that they can be as competitive as the Japanese and consequently avoid redundancies.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This is not appropriate to the measure before the House.

Mr. Barrett

I understand that Irish Shipping are concerned with passenger vessels. It would be the wish of all of us that replacements for these vessels be built at Verolme so that the present level of employment be maintained there. There are involved 1,250 livelihoods at Verolme so it would be totally irresponsible of the Government to permit this order to be placed in Japan.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy is wide of the mark.

Mr. Barrett

I would ask those people who are interested in the tourist industry to read the plan produced by the mid-western region. It is a document that makes very good reading in that it sets out what we should have in mind for our tourist industry and what we should be doing to make our country more attractive to tourists not only for a first but for subsequent visits. However none of the regions can act in isolation. They must have the proper backing from Bord Fáilte. They are the people who can promote this country region by region. They must act in co-operation with Aer Lingus, CIE, SFADCo and, of course, the travel agents. The latter form an essential part of promotional activity.

Perhaps more moneys should be made available to the various regions to permit them as a body to promote tourism abroad—for example, to allow them to visit some of the west European countries in particular in order to attract more tourists from that area. The south-western part of the country has been very successful in attracting tourists from that part of Europe but there is potential for a greater influx of people to the west as well as other parts of the country. Bord Fáilte would be doing a good day's work in increasing their efforts in this direction as against promoting tourism from New Zealand, Australia and Japan from which areas we might never reap and great benefit whereas they know from experience the existence of a market for tourism in western Europe, in North America and in Great Britain. As there is an upward trend in the market in western Europe it is for Bord Fáilte to continue their efforts in that area and do everything possible to ensure that we reap the full benefits of that market.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach and Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Kelly)

This Bill and the Estimate being debated with it are intended to enable the Minister to set up a Tourism Development Fund. Conventionally a debate of this kind gives Deputies an opportunity of advancing their own ideas about tourism and the direction in which the Minister and the board should go.

I have listened with interest to Deputies from both sides of the House who have pleaded, understandably and rightly, for the tourist attraction effort to be geared in some measure to the amenities which their own areas have to offer. Deputies such as Deputy Leonard, Deputy Barrett or Deputy Gallagher have nothing to be ashamed of in regard to their parts of the country, because regardless of the amount of money that has been invested in them, they are a delight to the eye in many respects for reasons natural as well as man-made. It is my intention to put in a plea for the direction of the eye of the tourist authority on this capital city. I say this because when from time to time it is my duty to receive foreigners here I experience a sense of shame in allowing them to see the centre of this city. I say this because of its gruesome appearance. I would not have that shame if I were Deputy Leonard showing a tourist around the lakes of Monaghan or if I were Deputy Barrett showing them the Cliffs of Moher or Deputy Gallagher showing them Achill Island because in any of these places I would be very proud of the surroundings. Very often I endeavour to bring foreigners the long way around this city so as to avoid a disagreeable sight. I realise that the problem of restoring Dublin to a state of which its inhabitants could be proud would be very different from the problem of tidying up, say, a town the size of Castlebar, Ennis or Clones. I am not trying to minimise the problem in regard to this city. But because of a multiplicity of authorities or of neglect in the past, the appearance of Dublin, particularly the central part, shows an incredible degree of dilapidation.

It is with much regret that I say that about the city in which I was born and reared; but time and again I am repelled by the extent of the neglect of this city. I have to ask myself what is here for the tourist unless he is to be shepherded carefully from the interior of one 18th century building to another. If, say, he is brought from the Municipal Gallery to Leinster House and, perhaps, from there to Dublin Castle—although the latter is not an 18th century building —he may get an agreeable impression of the city but that would be a false view. The picture would be very different for him if, say, he were to walk from the station at Tara Street to the Four Courts or from Findlater's Church to St. Stephen's Green.

It is not with any pleasure that I decry my own city but I am depressed at its condition. Increasing areas of it are beginning to look like bombed sites. There are casual demolitions with no evidence of plans for harmonised reconstruction or for the rehabilitation of entire communities in areas from which the people had to move out. In moving out they have admittedly in many cases got better living conditions than they had, but the centre of Dublin is being and has been progressively gutted. Even areas which one tended to think were respectable if one drove through them rather quickly are on closer examination found to be extremely tatty.

One grows accustomed to these things and one ceases to see the tattiness with a fresh eye. But I cannot believe that Bord Fáilte are not grieved at the sight of the buildings around St. Stephen's Green. I shall not identify them for fear of hurting individuals; but the buildings, though not actually in ruins, are certainly not a visual amenity or anything approaching it. The same goes for other streets in other parts of the city, streets which, when I was a child and a student were visually quite acceptable, streets which one would not be ashamed to show tourists, streets in which one would expect tourists to see some charm. These are all progressively disappearing, falling into neglect, if not vandalised by public or private interest.

Sometimes I am amused by the carefully taken and beautifully planned photographs of, for example, stretches of the River Liffey which are used by the tourist board. These photographs are taken from the air. It is a damn good job they are, because if they were taken on the ground they could not be used. Walk along the quays and see how much attraction there is or how much old world charm. There is little except dilapidation and neglect and, where premises are replaced, the replacement is worse than the original. The whole thing is unco-ordinated. I am sorry to have to say this because I know many fine officials who have spent their lives battling with this problem. There is a complete lack of co-ordination both locally and nationally.

There is, too, the accumulation of litter. One sees this litter nowhere else in Europe except in Britain, and Britain is not as bad as here; though I suppose litter is trivial as compared with the progressive falling down of this capital city. I appeal to the Opposition spokesman on this subject and to others, even those representing rural constituencies, to join with me in expressing concern at the way in which our capital city has been going over the last few years. Rural Deputies should have an equal stake and pride in it, because it is our capital city. A substantial proportion of visitors do not come here for a rural holiday only; they like to spend a few days in Dublin. Its appearance, except for a few selected corners, is not such as to encourage a second visit. I am grieved to have to say that. I get no pleasure out of criticising my own city. But these are the facts.

What I would like to see—it may not be a practical suggestion—are very wide-ranging powers over a period of 15 years given to someone to restore Dublin and make it once more into a city of which nobody ought to be ashamed. Perhaps Bord Fáilte can provide such a man and put enough pressure on, both at local and national level, to give that man wide-ranging powers. I should like to see a Napoleon sitting at Baggot Street Bridge. I would be quite happy to give these wide-ranging powers to Bord Fáilte because they have shown themselves to be sensitive to the appearance of the country and not just sensitive to low prices or amenities for drinking. They have always been sensitive to the appearance of town and country. I would be quite happy if this Napoleon sat at Baggot Street Bridge; if he did, there would no longer be any need for a speech like this.

Deputy Leonard and Deputy Barrett mentioned drink licences. There is an intimate connection between the drink licensing laws and amenities which restaurants and hotels can offer. That is obvious. I want to draw attention, specially for the benefit of country Deputies, to a growing phenonemon, growing hand-in-hand with the dilapidation of Dublin over the last 20 years—I refer to the progressive disappearance from this city of what used to be restaurants, as distinct from the dining room of hotels, or glorified extensions of pubs. There used to be a small number of internationally famous and by no means impossibly expensive restaurants within ten or 15 minutes walk of Leinster House. These have all disappeared over the last ten or 12 years and nothing has taken their place. Very fine restaurants have sprung up but they are expensive. They are in a different category. They are specialised. They are very fine, and I am not saying anything to detract from them, but they do not offer the kind of service in the centre of the city with which the older ones would identify.

The Minister and Bord Fáilte should give some attention to the social and economic service which the very common family restaurant provides in European cities and towns. Surely something similar could be provided here in the bigger towns at least. There would certainly be a market in the bigger towns for simple unpretentious restaurants which will leave patrons with some change out of £2 or £3. That is the kind of thing tourists like. If I were asked in Kildare Street to point out to a tourist such a restaurant in the city I simply could not do it. I would not know where to direct him. I am thinking of the kind of restaurant one finds in Italy, France, Germany, Belgium and elsewhere in which ordinary people can eat well without being fleeced. One reason for the success of these restaurants is that they are very often family businesses. The father is the chef; the wife keeps the accounts; the children serve. They all work very hard, possibly for 12 hours a day. Relations are brought in to help —grannies and aunts and uncles to keep the family business going. A social amenity is provided and nobody is robbed. The restaurant has a licence, and one will not be told when one goes into it that only wine is available, whether ordinary or fortified and, if one wants a beer or spirits, one will have to go elsewhere. If it were subject to such restrictions, it would have to go out of business.

The reason such restaurants do not exist here is partly that the licensing laws do not favour them, and partly also that, once you licence a premises fully, once it has got a full licence for beer, wines and spirits, much more money can be made simply selling drink along with peanuts and the odd plate of chicken in the rough, or something of that kind. Basically, more money can be made by simply selling drink and not bothering your head selling food, or not bothering your head selling anything more than more or less instantaneous packet soup or the very simplest of snacks. Of course, that is death to the kind of institution I should like to see here, which I am certain would be advantageous to tourist traffic as well as being a valuable social amenity for ourselves.

What publican who is trying to do his best for himself, his wife and his family, the same as everybody else does, will waste his time and his valuable space, if he has a full liquor licence, in setting up tables with cloths and cutlery and all the rest, and fitting up a proper kitchen with a chef and staff and serving a large variety, or some variety, of home-made foods in the middle of the day and in the evening when, with the same space and half the capital, he can make four times or ten times the money, for all I know, by simply selling drink? He will not do it and small blame to him.

In other words, we are faced with a dilemma. If you operate as a restaurant all you can get is a wine licence. That instantly cuts your market, because most people who would want to use such a place, if they want a drink, would be much more likely to want a pint of stout or a bottle of beer than a bottle of wine costing £3 or £4. Conversely, if you have got a licensed premises which can sell all these things, you will be much more likely to use that premises for selling drink and nothing else, or selling drink 98 per cent of the time and throwing in a few snacks just for the sake of appearances and otherwise not doing anything in the food line.

There is no solution to this, I am afraid, except to get people into the habit of providing such restaurants and of expecting to find them. The only solution I can think of is for the Tourist Board, or some authority of that kind, to take the initiative by acquiring a certain number of premises, perhaps experimentally, in Dublin and the other bigger cities—I quite agree this could not be done in the small towns. Certainly there is a case for half a dozen such premises to be acquired in Dublin. I will make anyone interested a present of my own ideas on the matter.

At the moment the money going into the tourist development fund is a relatively small amount. The Tourist Board would not break themselves in more prosperous times if they acquired a handful of pubs in what I might call unfashionable parts of the city where they do not go for colossal sums and may even be slightly run down, pubs which have some trace of the atmosphere of the 19th century or the early 20th century still hanging around them which, for literary reasons, the outside world associates with Dublin, and converted them into premises which will do what I say, that is, not concentrate on making a fortune, not concentrate on building themselves within a matter of a few years into a condition where they can be sold for £200,000, but into simple neighbourhood restaurants of a decent standard with a fair choice of decent home-made foods accessible to tourists in such a way that they will not be robbed.

One possible way in which this could be done is for the board to employ the personnel to run such an establishment. Another way of doing it might be to lease such establishments, having fitted them up, by way of concession to enterprising young restaurateurs with a built-in condition to the effect that they would have to be run in the way I have outlined and could not be made progressively into a front for making a fortune selling drink. I believe that could be done; it would be very difficult to persuade me that it could not be done. It is done everywhere I have been in Europe with the single exception of Britain.

In this case, as in so many other cases, we suffer from the deadly disadvantage of looking timidly over our shoulders to see what the British are doing and, if the British are not doing something, we tend to believe it cannot be done or ought not to be done. That is a slave mentality, as I have said dozens of times in this House before. In this relatively trivial and certainly not contentious matter it makes absolutely no sense whatever. The British are renowned for a bad cuisine and for unimaginative food. Perhaps our own reputation in this regard is not great. I see absolutely no reason why the standards of what they do should be the outer limits of what we do in this matter any more than any other matter.

The last suggestion I want to make in regard to the encouragement of the tourist industry would probably require a small investment by the Tourist Board which could, of course, be made within the purposes of the fund now being established. I throw this out for what it is worth. It may be that the Minister does not think it is worth very much. Last year the taxpayers had to provide £18 million, if I am not mistaken, to keep CIE afloat. God knows what the sums will be in the future.

Mr. P. Barry

£26½ million.

Mr. Kelly

The Minister tells me it will be £26½ million this year. Very many transport systems in Europe are in financial difficulties, in particular in regard to their railways. Even countries with a very high population density and in which people do a lot of travelling around, such as Western Germany, lose astronomical sums on their railways. There is always the cry: "Let us close down unprofitable lines." Then the counter-cry goes up: "We are not just a transport concern; we are part of the social and economic infrastructure; you cannot close us down for that reason. It is not just a question of saving money on a bad business or of cutting losses; it is a question of keeping the social fabric more or less intact."

I incline towards sympathy with the latter point of view. I would be sorry to see even an unprofitable branch line being closed down. That may be a sentimental point of view but that is my feeling all the same. If we are to have unprofitable lines—unprofitable in the sense that they are not sufficiently used and not enough revenue is being extracted from them—I should like to suggest to the Tourist Board that they might see what it would cost to administer a scheme whereby a tourist, who before coming here—I say this in order to avoid abuse—had booked a certain minimum of hotel nights in Ireland, could go anywhere he liked on the provincial railway routes for nothing in the second class. It is only foostering around to be offering reductions; by the time you have administered the reductions and checked the tickets you would be as well off giving the travel for nothing.

The numbers would not be enormous. On certain days during the week the Dublin to Cork train is fairly full but, by and large, we all know that the provincial trains run a great deal of the time with a very low seat occupancy. The line from Limerick to Bailina runs up the west coast and, if you get out of it at any station, it leaves you within a matter of a few miles of the very areas on the west coast Deputy Barrett was talking about a few moments ago. I do not know what that line costs or what it loses, but it functions. Every time I have seen it, it has been half empty, or three-quarters or four-fifths empty, or worse. Apart from the minimal vestigial extra wear and tear to the rolling stock, I cannot see that anything could be lost by allowing tourists who have shown their good faith by booking a certain minimum number of bed nights before coming to Ireland an absolutely free hand on the Irish provincial rail service, not on the bus services because buses are too small, and it might disrupt the service and involve laying on an extra bus, and not on the suburban rail services because they are crowded. On the main provincial lines in the second class I could see many arguments in favour of making this concession to bona fide tourists.

I ask the House to imagine what an outstanding promotional point this would be in the very countries Deputy Barrett talked about in Western Europe and how much it would be appreciated if they thought they had this network —which is actually a very large network for the population which sustains it, a population of three million—this colossal network which still penetrates to the very important tourist regions of the west and south-west, open to tourists for nothing. It seems to me that this would be an enormous promotional point. It would cost something to administer in the sense of confirming the existence of pre-booked bed nights, and so forth, and for that reason a contribution from a fund like this might be appropriately mentioned.

A suggestion of that kind deserves consideration—and I say this in no contentious spirit—perhaps even more so than the suggestion in Deputy Barrett's mind in regard to petrol subsidies. Irish petrol at present is still only approximately three-quarters the cost of Italian or French petrol. An Italian coming to Ireland at present with his car would be agreeably surprised at how cheap our petrol was; likewise a Frenchman or a Belgian. I do not use that as a ground for suggesting it will not be a serious matter if the price goes through the ceiling. But I am saying that that perhaps is not a major grievance with many western European tourists who would not be particularly put off by the price of petrol here and indeed who may be agreeably surprised by it.

In addition to that there is the problem of petrol subsidies. Although I am sympathetic to the idea in principle, there is the danger of abuse with a long land frontier such as ours. Every other type of commodity is smuggled back and forth across the frontier and I have absolutely no reason to suppose that we would not find grandiose fiddles with petrol if there were concessions here for tourists because the definition of tourist would have to include somebody coming from the North of Ireland. He might only come from Crossmaglen, but as soon as he crossed into the Republic he would rank as a tourist. Although I share the general direction of Deputy Barrett's remarks, I can see all too many reasons to suppose that a pure petrol concession for tourists would be abused and would be difficult to administer.

Mr. Barrett

I did not say petrol should be subsidised. I said any future increases in oil should not be confined to petrol.

Mr. Kelly

I am sorry. I heard the Deputy saying that and I took him to mean that there should be some preferential treatment for tourists. I am sorry; if so, my remarks have been misdirected. I do hope that somebody in a position to examine this suggestion will give it some thought and will see whether CIE might be persuaded, without sustaining any loss or complicating their administration, to give that bit of encouragement to the tourist industry and, simultaneously, that much extra justification for their own continued maintenance of what otherwise are unprofitable provincial railway lines.

I join the Minister in commending the Bill to the House and wish the Irish tourist industry and all those who have worked so hard for its success over the years increased success in the future.

Mr. Gallagher

Like previous speakers, I welcome this Bill. There is no need for me to stress the importance of tourism for a small nation such as ours. It provides much needed employment and many other benefits. Indeed practically every section of our community benefits in some way from tourism. Our airlines, CIE and many agencies benefit considerably. Indeed, without a good tourist trade, I am sure such agencies would find it impossible to function.

The purpose of this Bill is to raise the statutory limit of the aggregate amount of money which may be paid to Bord Fáilte for the giving of grants for holiday accommodation and to make provision for the control of the remuneration of the chief officer of the board. In this I believe we are certainly heading in the right direction because, from returns, we can see that each year tourism has been on the increase. Despite the fact that we have had to face many problems, it is encouraging to note that the returns have been quite satisfactory.

Under a previous Bill, which selected various areas for development, it is true to say, especially in relation to areas of which I have knowledge, that very little of the funds so designated seemed to be expended. For instance, Achill was selected as a major tourist resort and, as far as I can recall, there was only one major scheme undertaken in that area under the provisions of that Bill. I am wondering what will be the position in relation to areas which were selected under the previous Bill. Will they still be considered for development and will they continue to benefit under this new development fund?

A number of grants introduced in recent years were utilised in a tremendous amount of work undertaken in the development of tourism in many areas. Those were what might be called amenity schemes funded by the regional development organisations and local authorities. Small schemes of that type—the provision of roads to beaches, car parks and where other facilities such as tennis courts, toilets and so on were provided—were of tremendous benefit in many areas and it is unfortunate that some of those schemes were discontinued.

Reference was made in the Minister's speech to grants and to accommodation. I believe it is still necessary to provide funds in many areas where hotels have not been fully developed. There is still room for the building of new hotels. While Bord Fáilte seem to think at present that they have spent sufficient funds in that direction I could point to many areas where the development and building of new hotels is absolutely essential for the promotion of tourism.

During the last few years there was a cut back in the grants made available for farm holiday schemes. That farm holiday grant constituted a worthwhile effort and did a great deal for the promotion of tourism in many areas. It provided much needed income for small investors and helped also in the provision of holidays at a reasonable cost for many people, especially families. While the Minister made no specific mention of that in his speech, I wonder if it is proposed to continue that type of grant when more funds are available.

The schemes put into operation for the development of hotels—where, for instance, Gaeltarra Éireann joined in a company and took a share of the equity—did a great deal also to boost the standard of hotels in many areas. Again I would ask the Minister to urge the board to have a rethink on this in relation to at least some areas and try to have the scheme continued.

I agree with the idea of providing grants to help hotels, particularly family hotels who have been providing a service throughout the years. Were it not for the efforts of many of these people there would be hardly any tourism. There are people who have run very fine guesthouses and small family hotels, who have provided a wonderful service and who have contributed a great deal to bringing tourists to many areas, and because of the standards they have set they have brought back the same tourists and visitors year after year. They should get every possible assistance to improve their hotels and bring them up to a fairly good standard.

There is a matter which has caused concern in my constituency, and it relates to the 1902 Act which enabled people to get a licence for a hotel. As a result of a decision by Bord Fáilte, persons who managed to get a licence since 1960 and who have not kept the hotel up to the required standard or who are not registered with Bord Fáilte now find themselves without a licence. This is a rather unfair situation. There is an anomaly here whereby the decision of one Department may cut across the activities of another Department, the Department of Justice. I put down a question on this to the Minister for Justice in May. The Minister more or less stated that it was not his function, that Bord Fáilte were the people responsible. When people have gone to considerable expense in building their houses and are still providing a service, it seems rather unfair that they should lose their licence, and indeed, lose their business entirely. There are a number of these people in my county, and there would not be too much involved in having legislation introduced so that they could regain their licences. I wish to quote part of the last paragraph of the reply of the Minister for Justice:

Since I have no function in regard to the standard prescribed by Bord Fáilte, I assume that what the Deputy wishes me to do is to introduce legislation to amend or repeal the section of the 1960 Act to which he has referred. I indicated today in reply to a parliamentary question that various proposals for the amendment of the Act have been made, that I am examining them but that no decision has been taken to introduce amending legislation.

I would ask the Minister to look at this section of the Act, and perhaps both he and his colleague, the Minister for Justice, could assist these people.

Mr. P. Barry

I am not very clear what the Deputy is referring to. Is it that people who are registered as hotels got liquor licences because they were registered as hotels and then when Bord Fáilte said their standards were no longer such that they could be registered, they lost their liquour licence? Is that the point?

Mr. Gallagher

Yes. These licences were got under the 1902 Act, but under a section of the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 1960, if their premises were not up to Bord Fáilte standards they lost their licence. This matter was under discussion for some time, and in the High Court I understand judgment was given against them. It means that they have lost their licence and they are not allowed to sell liquor. I can assure the Minister that he will be hearing something about this in the next few weeks.

There are many ways in which the funds of Bord Fáilte can be used to develop tourist areas. Not enough attention is paid to such matters as the development of lakes and rivers for angling. The grants which have been provided for sea angling are very welcome, but again we are inclined to concentrate on major developments. Perhaps in the long run this is the best approach, but if we were to take small schemes and efforts by local organisations there would be a better distribution of the funds available for efforts of this kind. Large sea angling centres are developed in certain areas, but they are only open for a number of months in the year. These centres could be of benefit to local communities but there are certain restrictions on their use. While they are of advantage to the tourist they do not help local communities who have no halls or local centres.

I am happy to see that the Minister proposes that there should be liaison between the Department of Lands and other agencies in relation to tourist development. I agree entirely that some of our forests are ideal for opening to tourists. This is a very worthwhile idea. We have examples of this in the west and many people obtain great enjoyment and relaxation from visiting these forests. They are also very useful for educational tours. I urge the Minister to extend the programme he has envisaged in relation to forestry and other amenities.

When talking about tourism we must pay the highest tribute to our people who are doing the promotional work overseas, particularly in America and England. It is encouraging to see that so many visitors come here from those countries. However I agree with Deputy Barrett that we can do a great deal more in western Europe. A recent study showed that 14 million West Germans travelled abroad in 1974 and that they spent £2,647 million. When one takes that figure into consideration and also the number of tourists who come here from the Continent, it is plain to be seen that there is a great area for development here and it is something worth considering. At the moment only 10 per cent of our visitors come from the Continent. That should be a much higher figure, particularly because of our EEC links. I agree with Deputy Barrett that this is an area Bord Fáilte should concentrate on, and one which would greatly benefit us.

I believe we never give sufficient credit to the contribution made by our own people in relation to tourism. Of the 50 per cent we get from England by far the greater proportion of that is accounted for by our own people coming back to visit their relatives. In relation to the American figure, I believe a great deal of the money we get is spent by our own people who come to visit us. There is an argument for providing some form of holiday package for tourists from England. Most of them come with their families and there is a lot of merit in the suggestion of the Parliamentary Secretary in relation to free travel. I would not be prepared to go as far as he did but I believe we should have a look at this matter and try to encourage more of our own people to come back to visit us.

The regional boards, in conjunction with the local authorities, have done a very worthwhile job but they should have more authority. The way they are funded at the moment is not very satisfactory. Local authorities, already overburdened because of various commitments, are asked to contribute. In most cases they have given as generously as they possibly could, but this is not a satisfactory way of funding the regional tourist boards. Sufficient funds should be made available directly through Bord Fáilte. The programming for the various regions should also be left to the various regional boards.

The Western Tourist Board, covering the Galway-Mayo region, have produced a number of plans for tourist development. The work of producing plans is fine but the provision of funds is an entirely different matter. The regional boards have very little say in the spending of any worthwhile sums for tourist development. What function will they have in the future? The Western Regional Tourist Board work in conjunction with the Galway-Mayo regional board. They have plans prepared for various projects in that region. Perhaps the Minister will let us know if they will have any function in the future or how it is proposed to tie them in with the suggested Western Development Board. There are many people who are interested in knowing what is proposed in this respect.

I entirely agree with the Parliamentary Secretary regarding the present state of Dublin city. He has been very frank as a Dublinman as regards the city as we see it. As our capital city there are very many things that could be done to improve the present situation, the condition of the Liffey and so on. We should all be concerned about this. Personally, I have no idea how to go about it but the Parliamentary Secretary must be commended for highlighting the situation. We should commend Bord Fáilte for their efforts through the years and the various schemes they introduced, such as the "Tidy Towns" competitions, which have been a tremendous help to local communities and have helped to create pride in respect of localities, villages and towns. If we could have something on an area basis in Dublin to encourage people to follow the example of some of the smaller centres we might be making a start towards what the Parliamentary Secretary suggested, making Dublin a better and cleaner place to live in.

I agree also with his comments regarding hotels and restaurants. One could apply this to some of our provincial towns. In the tourist season it is possible to get meals in hotels but one is not always quite satisfied with the standards or prices. If we had more encouragement for the type of restaurant mentioned by the Parliamentary Secretary, even outside Dublin in the provincial towns, we would be doing something worthwhile.

The question of transport for tourists is very important. As a Member for the west I have a very serious complaint about how we are treated, generally speaking, in relation to travel facilities for the west. We seem to get the worst trains, the cast-offs from Cork, Limerick and Kerry.

Mr. P. Barry

You have a Supertrain now.

Mr. Gallagher

Very often it is impossible to get a drink or a meal on trains to the west but if we are trying to develop tourism—and we have one of the finest areas for development in the country—we must provide proper travel facilities for people visiting the area. In future I hope we shall have no reason to complain on this score. The west is often looked on like a poor relation and while I do not want to be a constant moaner I believe we have a legitimate grouse in many ways and I trust that this situation will not be allowed to continue.

I welcome the Bill and I hope the good work initiated by An Bord Fáilte will continue. We should try to realise how important this great industry can be to our economy.

Mr. Taylor

The Bill is being very well received in the House. It can be said that it is outside the sphere of politics and the contributions made indicate the all-round interest Deputies have in building a thriving tourist industry. The main features of the Bill are that a new tourist development fund is being created and there is a new departure in the sense that you are creating 90 zones which will be benefiting in a big way I hope from this fund. It is also very important that we are now embracing in this structure the Office of Public Works and the Department of Lands with the Forestry and Wildlife Section all combining to bring about better and quicker distribution of the money within the different zones.

The structure of Bord Fáilte and the regional tourism organisation and the organisations in each county have been very effective in the past and have had many successes up to the time when uncertainty was created by the troubles in the North. These created a very unstable situation and uncertainty arose which affected tourism in a major way but I think we have now convinced those who come to our country that there is stability here, that we have a very sound and stable situation and they understand our geography better. We have found the upturn and improvement in the past year very convincing. This recovery must be maintained and the position further improved in the future. The Bill will contribute greatly to this because the funds now available for improvement and development of facilities and accommodation will, I hope, yield a rich harvest in the years ahead.

Many have combined to make attractions for our tourists. The voluntary work done by local festival committees more than anything else has helped to provide entertainment for tourists. In most cases this entertainment has been along traditional lines.

I should like to see such committees being encouraged to continue this good work and this can be done by the allocation of generous grants.

I have heard many complaints about the operation of the licensing laws in resorts. The Department of Justice, in co-operation with the Department of Transport and Power, should arrange a relaxation of the licensing laws during the peak period of the tourist season. Couples with young families often find that by the time they put their children to bed the places of entertainment in resorts have closed. We cannot expect the gardaí to do very much about this matter because the law does not give them much scope.

Private bus owners and taxi owners who contribute a great deal to the tourist industry are forgotten. They are not subsidised in any way but they must bear all the increases. They must pay increased charges for insurance and petrol and at the same time compete against the heavily subsidised transport company, CIE. We seem to forget that many tourists avail of their services. I should like to see a subsidy paid to these people. They should be given vouchers which would enable them to purchase petrol at a reduced price.

This Bill will enable hoteliers to change their style. Those wishing to convert their premises in order to provide a self-service unit will be facilitated under this Bill. Those engaged in the farmhouse holiday business who are anxious to develop a second house on their farm will also be facilitated. On amenities for tourists an effort should be made to provide car parks at beauty spots. Many tourists experience difficulty in parking at such spots. County councils should prepare a plan for the provision of such car parks at the most popular scenic spots. Such car parks need not be big or tarmacadamed.

Local authorities over the years have carried out many amenity schemes and for this reason I believe they should co-operate with Bord Fáilte in the provision of further amenities. A recent innovation in our transport system has been the provision of car ferries. A very successful car ferry system operates across the Shannon from Tarbert to Kilrush. I hope that some of the money which will now be available for the development of tourism will be channelled to County Clare for the improvement of the terminals at Tarbert, Killimor and Kilrush. That service will have to be terminated next year if money is not allocated for this work because of structural defects. That is a very important service because it ties up Cork and Kerry with Clare and Galway. Up to the time of the introduction of this service Clare, because of its geographical position, was more or less cut away from the rest of the country.

I should like to see proper recognition given to those who engage in skin diving, a sport which is very popular in Kilkee. An international competition held at that resort recently proved very successful. Recognition should also be given to those who provide equestrian schools. Any body or group who provide attractions should be encouraged to continue and improve these attractions because any type of amusement will encourage tourism.

SFADCo have promoted more charter flights into this country than any other single agency. They have shown tremendous initiative. Through their ideas they have attracted tourists to the south, the west and to Clare in particular, even through the winter months. Every encouragement should be given to this company to extend their tours. If the airport is to function it must have passengers, apart altogether from the commercial use made of it by the industrialists in the area.

A very important source of revenue and a method of attracting tourists has been the thatched cottage industry. This has proved very popular in the midwest region, even through the winter months. Their occupancy has been reasonably high all year round. One cannot but admire the initiative and imagination of those who thought of this novel idea.

Generally speaking, this Bill will be a stimulus. I hope when zones are created that the peripheral areas will not be the last to benefit. In my opinion in many of the structures, whether of industrial promotion or otherwise, the peripheral areas are the last to benefit even though they may be the first to deserve development. Perhaps this Bill will bring about a noticeable improvement in the tourist industry in those areas which hitherto have not been fully developed.

I wish now to refer to vandalism. In my view it is necessary to spend money either through lectures in the schools by people from Bord Fáilte or in any other area which might be considered necessary to counteract this tendency and cultivate a civic spirit among the people who destroy equipment at seaside resorts. This has been happening over the years. I am sorry to say that due to vandalism, such as destroying life belts, ropes, and so on, provided by county councils, lives have been lost by drowning. County Clare was the first county to provide a lifeguard.

Safe bathing areas are a must if we are to encourage tourism. Local councils have provided necessary warnings when beaches are not safe. Nevertheless this vandalism continues, even in areas attractive for rod fishing, that is, off very high cliffs. As I said, I have seen instances where vandalism was responsible for deaths. Unless there is a complete change of thinking by responsible people further lives will be lost. Nobody likes to talk about this but it is happening. It should not be swept under the carpet, because only by publicity will it sink into the minds of the people who neither act responsibly nor show any civic spirt.

Public transport services, whether train or bus, play an important role in attracting tourists. The standard of accommodation and comfort on our buses will make a real and lasting impression on them. Our standards cannot be too high. The recent catering improvements brought about by CIE on the trains have been very noticeable. I am glad to hear that that company plan to improve further the standard of accommodation on our trains. All this will contribute towards providing the better facilities which tourists require.

Our county associations whether in England, America or anywhere else, are doing very valuable work, much of it voluntary, promoting charter flights here. Every encouragement should be given to travel agents and those who work to attract tourists. Travel agents are an important group; they work hard and, while they have their ups and downs in business, generally speaking they try to give a good service. By way of encouragement the Minister might consider giving them grants towards the improvement of their premises. This would be appreciated.

I welcome the Bill. I hope the Minister will effect further improvements in the tourism trade in the years ahead.

Mr. J. O'Leary

I welcome this Bill, particularly because the main purpose is to provide for a new tourism development fund from which advances can be made to Bord Fáilte towards the cost of capital works to assist Irish tourism. I have no doubt that most useful work was carried out under the scheme for the development of major resorts. It is worth noting that 19 resort areas were improved as a result of this scheme and it was most important so far as development work was concerned. The use made of the scheme and the facilities that were availed of by the resorts and by grants from Bord Fáilte can be proved from the fact that the initial grant in 1959 was for £1 million; in 1966 it was increased to £3.25 million and in 1972 it was £4 million. In addition a sum of approximately £2 million was contributed by local authorities. This proves the scheme was a major success. Because of the scheme valuable amenities were provided in major resorts which otherwise could not have been provided.

In the immediate future Bord Fáilte should concentrate on the European market. I doubt the wisdom of taking a too active role in promoting tourism from such distant places as New Zealand or Australia. It is quite probable that the only people who would come here from these countries are Irish or are of Irish descent and they would come in any event. The cost of travel is too great and these two countries are not very wealthy nations.

Apart from the European market, the Japanese market should be explored and I accept that this is being done. Japan is a highly industrialised country, perhaps over-industrialised. The majority of workers have to wear smog masks each morning to protect their health in view of the poor environmental quality. In the long term it would pay off if we concentrated on the Japanese market. It is a very wealthy nation and there are many people there who could afford to holiday in Ireland.

This market could be tapped by Bord Fáilte who might consider making contact with western European agencies. It is well known that the Japanese travel in large numbers for holidays in western Europe and if Bord Fáilte could liaise with travel agents in western Europe with regard to the Japanese market it might prove successful. In the American market global tours were arranged where Ireland was included in world tours and the same course of action might be adopted with regard to Japan.

Special grants should be made available through Bord Fáilte to groups of hotels here who send representatives abroad on promotional work. In particular, family-run hotels should be encouraged to form themselves into groups—perhaps a few from each province—and send representatives abroad on promotional work to western Europe and Britain. Bord Fáilte should make substantial grants available to such representatives and it would be worthwhile in the long run. There should be greater concentration on the British market. When proprietors of privately-run hotels go to England personally to get business they are generally fairly successful.

Bord Fáilte are doing an excellent job in obtaining international conferences for Ireland but I am convinced there is an even greater potential. No effort should be spared by the board to get as many conferences as possible for this country. Some people may be critical of expenditure by the board with regard to making arrangements for such conferences but any money spent in this area is well spent.

There should be more liaison between Bord Fáilte and travel agents abroad where there is the prospect of attracting tourists, particularly in western Europe and Britain. Travel agents can have a considerable amount of influence on the choice of country a tourist makes for his holiday. Therefore, it is of vital importance to the future of our tourist industry that Bord Fáilte have a good relationship with the travel agents throughout Britain and western Europe.

The regional tourism boards complain constantly of not receiving sufficient funds to enable them to carry out their functions. For a number of years these boards provided grants for farm guesthouses and other accommodation but they are not now receiving enough money to enable them to do this. Apart from the necessity of providing them with more money there is also a need to give them greater powers.

There is a need too for more co-ordination between Bord Fáilte, Aer Lingus and CIE, especially since there appears to be some element of duplication of effort between the three bodies so far as promotional work is concerned.

In the context of tourism the CIE transport service leaves much to be desired. I am amazed at the extent of the cutback in this service in certain areas particularly in tourist areas. Adherence to a timetable is very important so far as the itinerary of a tourist is concerned. Tourists from the Continent, for example, will expect trains here to be as much on schedule as is the position in the countries they come from. I am concerned at the cutback in transport services in tourist areas such as Kerry. It is regrettable that, for instance, the bus service from Killarney to Kenmare, the heart of the tourist district, should be curtailed so that instead of the seven day a week service which operated up to now there is to be a service on only two days. This cutback is considered very unreasonable by the business people and hoteliers in the area. I ask the Minister to take special note of this so as to ascertain whether it would be possible to restore the bus service to a six-or seven-day week one.

In his Estimate speech last April the Minister told us that he had undertaken a fact-finding and promotional work effort abroad—in the US, in England and on the Continent. I should like to know what has been the result of that effort.

Mr. P. Barry

Magnificent.

Mr. Meaney

I am glad to hear that. I am convinced that during the past few years our tourist industry would have been much better were it not for the fact that we appeared to be pricing ourselves out of the market. There have been substantial increases in the cost of meals and accommodation and also of transport. The extra duty of 15p per gallon on petrol must have had some impact on the tourist industry.

Increased ESB charges and increased food prices had a substantial bearing on the increases which hoteliers were forced to apply. There was a time when this country had the reputation of being a place where one could holiday at reasonable cost but that is no longer the position.

Regarding the enforcing of the licensing laws I would suggest that the Garda be a little liberal in tourist areas. On numerous occasions I have received representations from people involved in the tourist industry in this regard. I have been told many times of tourists being amazed on being told that they had to leave a hotel at the official closing time if they were nonresidents. Perhaps the Garda should be issued with instructions to the effect that the same rigidity would not apply in these areas, provided of course that there was no blackguardism in such areas as a result of any such relaxation of the law or that certain elements would not take advantage of the situation.

Mr. P. Barry

Hear, hear.

Mr. Meaney

With the good Garda force we have there is no reason why they could not handle situations at their own discretion and I appeal to the Minister to see if something could be done on the lines I suggest. We had a harrowing experience in the Glenbeigh-Rossbeigh area of Kerry last summer on one of the warmest Sunday evenings we had. A local garda started checking all cars leaving one of the best tourist resorts in the county at about five o'clock on Sunday evening for tax and insurance. There was a traffic jam which lasted for more than two hours. It resulted in many visitors being late for appointments or for their evening meal. It also resulted in farmers who had taken their wives and children to the seaside being late home for milking. Instructions should be given to the gardaí to be more liberal and not to use a large crowd at a resort in order to check cars for tax and insurance. I know it is a serious offence to have a car on the road which is neither taxed nor insured but there must be more appropriate occasions on which the gardaí could make checks without seriously inconveniencing people.

Mr. P. Barry

The gardaí merely administer the laws we pass.

Mr. Meaney

I agree, but the Minister will agree that holding up traffic coming from a tourist resort between five o'clock and six o'clock on a Sunday evening is the wrong time to do this kind of checking. It would be tantamount to stopping all traffic coming from the Munster final or the Cork county final.

Mr. P. Barry

It is stopped anyway. All one can do is walk along the road.

Mr. Meaney

Bord Fáilte officials should identify themselves when entering hotels for inspection purposes. There are many reasons why they should. I have known of a case where a Bord Fáilte official insisted at a most unreasonable hour on getting a drink in an hotel in which he was staying for the night. The proprietor was very tired and he was almost told by this man that he could be struck off the list if he did not supply the drink. Hoteliers and managers of hotels are often in a very embarrassing position as far as late night drinking by guests is concerned. There should be some regulation laid down about late night drinking. The regulation should be fair to the hotelier or to the manager and it should also be fair to the guests. If a guest requires a drink at a particularly late hour he should take it to his room with him. The same applies to sessions.

Mr. P. Barry

There is no fun in that. Was the Deputy never in a session himself? The last place he would want to go is to his room.

Mr. Meaney

If people arrive at a very late hour and want a drink or two before they retire, that is one thing, but it is unreasonable to expect drink to be served at an unreasonable hour in the early morning.

Bord Fáilte should express an interest in the re-introduction of tourist road grants. There are still many roads in tourist areas which are in very bad condition. It would be an excellent idea if money could be made available through Bord Fáilte for the improvement of these roads. There are many such roads throughout the west, the south and the north-west. They are in very bad condition. The local authorities cannot afford to bring them up to standard and maintain them because of the impact on the rates. I would urge the Minister to provide some form of grant in the coming year for the improvement of these roads.

I have been a strong advocate for a number of years of subsidised transport for tourists, particularly tourists coming from the Continent and Britain. The cost of coming from Britain and Europe to Ireland is considerable. The area of water one passes over must be the most expensive area of water in the world. I realise subsidisation would be costly but I believe serious consideration should be given to some form of subsidy in the case of those tourists coming to Ireland from Western Europe and Britain.

I note that Bord Fáilte intend to play a more active role in the protection of the environment. My colleague Deputy Leonard quoted from an article in The Irish Times of 11th October dealing with the alleged pollution of the lakes of Killarney. The report referred to was blown up out of all proportion. I am not saying the lakes of Killarney are so perfect that you could drink the water in certain areas. There seems to be some misunderstanding because water from the lakes of Killarney is not used for drinking purposes by the people in the area. The water for the town of Killarney and that whole area comes from a mountain high over the town and it is pure and clear.

In the same article in The Irish Times it is stated that one of the lakes is unfit for swimming or drinking and that it is unfishable. I explained about the drinking. About 98 per cent of the lake is safe for swimming. On the question of fishing, I know people who go out fishing on the lake during the season and they always bring in fish. This confidential Bracken Report referred to in the article apparently recommends that a proper lake management programme should be initiated without delay and that a full-time biologist, at least one technician and proper laboratory facilities should be provided and that the co-operative efforts of engineers, economists, political and legal experts are required. I would ask: where do economists come in to the prevention of pollution?

There seems to be a big misunderstanding of the alleged pollution of the Lakes of Killarney. A few years ago the Killarney Urban District Council carried out a major scheme and purification tanks were constructed at considerable cost with a State grant. Kerry County Council have the situation with regard to the Lower Lake, which was mentioned in this article, very much under control. Proposals from the Kerry County Council have been before the Minister for Local Government since last August for approval for a new sewerage scheme extending westwards from Killarney which, if carried out, would eliminate all suspicions of the Lower Lake being polluted. It is only fair that I should refer to these matters in the interests of what the Killarney Urban Council and Kerry County Council are doing and in the interests of tourism in Killarney, in the whole county and, probably, in the whole country. This paper is read by many people who carry the message abroad and it is only proper that the picture should be put right.

I am very dubious about the role Bord Fáilte should play in the protection of our natural environment. They should be concerned, and I have no doubt that they are concerned, as we all are, about the protection of the natural environment. Bord Fáilte have sufficient powers under existing planning legislation and under the proposed new planning legislation to protect any area they think is about to be destroyed or may be destroyed by any development. They have the right of appeal to the Minister against the decision of any planning authority in any special amenity area.

The planning authorities are the best judges of what development should take place in amenity areas. Each county has a county development plan. These areas are clearly marked out. In some areas no development at all can take place. Others are areas of limited development. Members of local authorities are as anxious as the planning officers of the local authorities to ensure that the natural environment and amenities are preserved. From my experience members of county councils and urban district councils are as concerned about preserving the environment and amenity areas as anybody else.

Bord Fáilte have sufficient powers to deal with any situation with which they are not satisfied. I have often expressed the view that the main problem in the protection of the environment rests not with the local authorities, not with Bord Fáilte, An Taisce or any of the other organisations specified in the planning Acts, but in the fact that there is a complete lack of co-ordination at Government level. The sooner the Government make some person responsible for this the better it will be for the country, for tourism, and for the quality of life of our people in the future.

We have in Killarney a good example of how industry can be fitted in with tourism in a high-amenity area. There, there are sited two of the largest industries in the country, well-screened off from the lakes. Industry and development can go side by side in the protection of the environment provided the planning authorities carry out their obligations to the maximum.

The Minister said that unspoiled surroundings are becoming increasingly scarce. I do not agree. So far our environment has been fairly well protected but possibly we have now reached the stage where some positive steps must be taken to ensure that, in any future development, the environment is protected and that those unspoiled surroundings to which the Minister referred are further protected.

The Minister also said:

The Board have also formulated a zoning strategy aimed at stimulating a balanced mix of facilities within an area which offers a natural focal point for tourist activity. In all, almost 90 tourism planning zones are envisaged. By concentrating on specific zones it is easier to determine the type and quantity of facilities required within the area.

I suggested to the Minister that a copy of this zoning strategy plan be issued to each Deputy who I am sure has a specific interest in these areas. We should all like to know exactly what is the board's zoning strategy.

I note that the scheme of grants introduced in 1973 authorising Bord Fáilte to help hotels and guesthouse owners to carry out repairs and renewals was not a great success. I can understand the reason. We must remember that our tourist industry was at a very low ebb during that period; many a hotel was operating at a loss and, in a situation like that, grants are no attraction to improve facilities.

While welcoming this Bill, I feel the board should be more concerned with the provision of amenities, particularly in lake districts in tourist counties, such as golf courses, fishing facilities, outdoor games and sports and the provision of facilities at seaside resorts. The board should also make specific grants available each year to people who provide pony-trekking facilities.

Probably the vast majority of tourists to this country each year want to know more about our way of life; they want to know about our culture, pastimes and history. I believe the Minister should seriously consider requesting Bord Fáilte to make a special grant available annually to Ceoltas Ceolteoirí Éireann who are doing such excellent work in the revival of traditional dances and songs.

It is of vital importance that our lake districts be developed to the maximum level possible. The same applies to our canals. I would ask the Minister to have his Department and Bord Fáilte take a hard look at our canals and examine their potential for attracting more visitors. I also suggest that a survey of our lakes be carried out to examine what facilities could be provided which would also provide a tremendous attraction for our visitors. I do not think such surveys would be very expensive. If a development programme could be initiated as a result of such surveys it could be implemented over a period of years. I should like to see Bord Fáilte and the Government as a whole playing a more active role in encouraging more of our people to take holidays at home each year, particularly during these crucial years, bearing in mind the state of our economy. It is of great importance that appeals be made, particularly to our younger people, to take their holidays at home in 1976. Such appeals should be launched between now and Christmas because the New Year is the time when most people decide where they will spend their holidays and then commence to save for that purpose.

We have been pricing ourselves out of the tourist market. The failure of the Government to implement any form of real price control must surely have an impact on tourism. The cost of goods, even of presents that visitors would take back to their families and friends, is so high that it may not encourage those people to come back again. On the other hand, the high cost which hoteliers are forced to charge for accommodation must also have an impact on tourism. The high cost of electricity seriously affects charges levied by the hotels. I would reiterate that CIE could provide a better transport service for the tourist, and instead of these services being curtailed in areas like Kerry they should be extended and improved.

Mr. Staunton

I welcome the introduction of this Tourist Traffic Bill, 1975, by the Minister for Transport and Power. I think it is fair to say that for once, amid the depression this year, last year and the year before in the tourist business, we are speaking tonight on items of tourism against a background of an excellent tourist season. At the beginning of this tourist season it had not seemed likely that things would work out as well as they did. The weather of course helped enormously but, despite that, it did seem things were going to go well, and they went extremely well. At this time there is unquestionably an added amount of confidence where the future of tourism is concerned in the midst of all the gloom there could have been a few months ago or last year.

The tourist development fund which the Minister proposes and to which he refers in his speech is in a sense the successor to the major resort development fund with a statutory limit of £4 million which was reached in 1972. Speaking from the point of view of Mayo and in particular west Mayo and the town of Westport where I live, I can say the major resort development fund was a very successful venture by Bord Fáilte. The town in which I am living benefited considerably from that fund. From what I have seen of the benefit of the fund I welcome very much the introduction of this tourist development fund by the Minister, because there was a void which needed to be filled, and it has been vitally necessary that work should proceed in this area.

In his speech the Minister refers to the question of designated areas, and says that maps are going to be introduced to this extent, that the assistance of the local authorities around the country will be sought for what is termed "a new tourism conservation policy", to use the Minister's words, clearly demonstrating "the land use requirements of tourism and staking a claim for tourism's share of the nation's natural resources." Of course this is necessary, but at the same time it is also necessary to make one or two cautionary remarks because at the present time, without this exercise being engaged in by Bord Fáilte, there is fairly stringent control in so far as the areas of natural beauty in the country are concerned, and the various local authorities, the county councils especially, drew up their development plans. Substantial regard was had to these very areas at the time, and within the local authorities, in the planning offices and among the chief executive officers of the county councils, there is a sense of responsibility which is not to be underestimated. Certainly the idea should not go abroad that there is less than an adequate approach to these problems at local level. In a country with such a wealth of beauty and such an amount of underdevelopment we would want to take great care of the manner in which we phrase language when we talk about staking a claim for tourism's share of the nation's natural resources, because if that is going to go to the extreme of not allowing development to happen at all in certain areas, the national interest will not be served to the greatest extent possible.

It seems to me that vital in such development or in such propositions is design, the quality of the proposals, the quality of the architecture, the quality of structures, the quality of housing. If I could illustrate this very simply—if you go to Achill Island, which is within my constituency, and if you go into villages like Dooagh, Keel, Slievemore, you are going into clusters of villages in areas of great natural beauty but where the habitation does not in any sense take away from the value or the beauty of the districts and indeed to an extent it tends to enhance it.

What I am trying to suggest is that if the development is of an indigenous nature, if houses are proposed which blend into the landscape, if traditional designs and concepts are used, one can have sensible development happening without, what is termed in modern phraseology, the quality of life or the environment being affected. This is an area in which we would want to be careful. Recently in Mayo there was a controversy in the area of west Louisburgh where Dutch interests had proposed a development. Originally they were refused by the county council but subsequently were given planning permission by the county council for a limited development subject to a number of conditions. This was appealed to the Minister; the appeal was allowed and the development was not allowed to go ahead. I know that Bord Fáilte were objectors to it, possibly, from their point of view, validly. At the same time there should be a positive approach in circumstances such as this in which, for example, if it is deemed to be necessary to object, a rider should be added of a positive nature to indicate the extent to which development might be welcomed in such circumstances. That would emphasise the fact that we welcome development if it is of a certain nature.

The Minister refers to zoning strategy. He refers to a balanced mix of facilities which offer a natural focal point for tourism activity. I agree completely with the Minister and Bord Fáilte about the necessity for such a zoning strategy and for focal points on the tourist map if we are to maximise development in the tourist world.

About five years ago I was in the United States of America for an extended period and I remember speaking to people who carried out some research in the United States for a European Government about those things in that country which tourists were attracted to most of all. Strangely it was matters on which we place emphasis, and rightly so, which were of least appeal—for example, the mountains, the rivers or the streams— because in many countries there is an abundance of this type of infrastructure and background, and very often people are coming to other countries for indigenous things. They may come to Dublin, for example, to see the Book of Kells because they have an intense interest in the culture of that period in Europe. They may be interested in archaeology and go to see Ballintubber Abbey in Mayo. They may be interested in theatre, and the Wexford Festival is a focal point or possibly Dublin. They may be interested in golf as a particular sport. Therefore to me it seems very sensible in the overall interest in development to have such focal points. For that reason I was very glad that previously under the major resort development fund the town of Westport in which I live was chosen by Bord Fáilte as a major resort for the purpose of the development fund.

I would like to express to Bord Fáilte our appreciation for their support for the championship golf course at Westport. This cost a great deal of money but if it were started today it would cost up to five times as much as it did. It could not have been done at the time but for the interest shown by Bord Fáilte. This has helped to make the town the focal point in tourism in that part of west Mayo and in Clew Bay. We also have the deep sea angling festival, a horse show and a good deal of hotel activity supported by Bord Fáilte.

Westport is a pleasant town where we have mountains and fishing. There is increased consumption of farm produce and there is an increased level of employment for farmers' sons and daughters during the summer months because of the many developments in the town. There has been mention of about 90 centres and there are also many interesting points in the Minister's speech so I hope there will be a continuation of the existing policy, particularly in relation to west Mayo.

Westport in particular has been very successful in the past few years in attracting a great many national bodies to hold their annual conferences there. This year up to a dozen national bodies decided to hold their national conferences there. The town has been successful in doing this because of the amenities there. I expect that over the years all those different bodies have been in five or six towns in the country and that for them it is also an attraction to go to a new centre.

There are certain limitations if successful conferences are to be held in Westport. One of the principal limitations is that there is not an adequate conference centre of an international standard. There are even limitations if national groups are of a sufficient size. If we are to attract national conferences, which Bord Fáilte have done very successfully in relation to the country in general, then it will be necessary for them to think of support for a conference centre for Westport. I would couple with that the possibility of the board looking at some type of theatre development.

Some years ago an officer of the board, who deals with this matter, had discussions with some people in the town but that was followed by a period of great gloom when we had our problems with the North of Ireland and the discussions fell through. I know that in Scotland a small town called Pithlochry in the north-east of the country, a tourist town in a fairly isolated area, has by far the longest tourist season. The reason for this is that the focal point is a theatre project in which a company run a series of plays from the start to the end of the tourist season. In addition to having the opportunity of looking at the beauty of the district in the day visitors in the evening have a guarantee of life of a certain nature, which has a great appeal for many people. It is of enormous import to the tourist economy in that particular region that the theatre project is in that town.

I should like to refer to the Westport situation and again to put on record our appreciation to Bord Fáilte for their concern up to the moment. I would also like to refer to the future so far as the tourist development fund is concerned and to state that a feasibility study of building going ahead, within which one might attempt to couple the functions of a conference with some of these other matters to which I have referred, might be very welcome. Westport is situated on Clew Bay, which has about 300 islands. Recently there has been considerable interest in water sports, especially dinghy sailing and other types of sailing. A French sailing club, which has a centre in Baltimore, County Cork, purchased part of one of the islands in Clew Bay. This development is very limited at present because there is not an adequate slipway or pier in the part of the bay most suitable for this type of development. The local tourist office and the regional tourist group in Mayo/Galway, are very interested in the development but funds have been a problem.

The Minister referred to the role of Bord Fáilte in the accommodation field and spoke about encouraging the provision of a balanced and viable supply of accommodation. In the past Bord Fáilte have been a little bit indiscriminate in giving grants to hotels in regard to two particular matters which they should take care of in the future. They should play some role in the siting of hotels because in some cases hotels have got substantial State aid and have been built sometimes in areas where they have not been shown to their best advantage. In addition, some people with hotel management, hotel training and hotel backgrounds have found it difficult to get into the business of being hoteliers in an equity sense because they only had limited funds. This can be contrasted with a lot of support for companies or individuals who had not a background in hotel management, in the presentation of food or hotel training, and sometimes the development has been less than desirable. Sometimes people with a specific background, in a carrer sense, in tourism and in hotel management have not been supported to the extent they might have been because they had not sufficient funds.

The most desirable type of development in relation to tourism that can take place in a small country like this is a limitation on massive hotels in such areas as Dublin and Cork. The type of development we should see is that which on the Continent has been most successful in small centres, that is, the quality of service, the quality of management and concern for individuals. This is done much better in the hands of individuals and families in the management situation, who are committed to this type of work, than it can ever be done by companies where the approach is entirely different and in many cases is unsuited to development in the small centres.

When one talks in terms of viability of hotels and viability of projects it seems to me that the possibility of viability being maintained over a long period is enhanced greatly by the management and equity being in the hands of people who know what they are doing and whose careers are totally at stake because of the investment situation. The overheads of such people, if they run into a rough period, such as the country in general did over the last few years in relation to tourism, can be cut to a much greater degree than one could attempt to do if one is attempting to delegate management to run hotels of a small or medium nature.

I hope that in the future, when we get off the ground again, when the problems in the North recede and when we get the British tourists back again, we will be a little bit more discriminating in our approach to the particular areas I have spoken about. I realise it is not the policy of Bord Fáilte at the moment to encourage new hotel development but I believe the Minister is anxious to encourage the development of a viable supply of accommodation.

There is one area in Mayo where support for a tourist hotel is very necessary. I refer to the Erris region. There is an enormous area broadly termed Erris which is as big as County Louth within which there is one small hotel but there is a great need for a tourist type hotel somewhere amid the beauty of that area not far from Belmullet. There is also a great need for a centre for the holding of functions. The area is very remote from the other major centres in Mayo, about 40 miles from Ballina and about 50 to 55 miles from Westport and Castlebar. Organisations there are obliged to hold functions 40 or 50 miles away which is completely undesirable socially and otherwise. There is a great deal of traffic in the area in the summer months principally due to Irish people coming home to visit relatives. It is an area of great tourist potential due to its beauty and scenery and the islands offshore. There could be much more tourist development if facilities were improved. Also, where our own people are coming home for holidays with considerable incomes—they are very good workers—they are keen to spend. If, in the Minister's phraseology one talks of balanced accommodation, if one looks at the west coast from the northern tip of Donegal down to West Cork there is no part for which the necessity is greater than the area I have spoken about. Already a great deal of business is leaving the area not only for evening functions such as dinner dances to which I referred but also wedding receptions and so on. There is a viable situation there in the mornings. I understand there are interests prepared to go ahead with this venture and being encouraged by Gaeltarra Éireann. Again, using the Minister's argument as to the board's role, there is a necessity and it seems to me an obligation for Bord Fáilte to become involved in a project in this area and something should be done about it.

The tourist season this year was an enormous success in my area despite the fact that there were not all that many British people around; there were many continentals. There is a new phenomenon of which we should take greater note—Deputy O'Leary referred to it briefly. Due to the fact that many more Irish people are coming home on holiday than there were previously, there is increased affluence in the country. We are delighted this is happening and, hopefully, it will continue. The romanticism of going to countries like Spain and to some extent the lessthan-good value for money in some of the hotels abroad is leading to greater sophistication among Irish people who now value to a greater extent the assets of our own country —an extremely welcome development. It is not the board's function to a great extent to encourage tourism within the country but for areas like Mayo and Galway it is extremely important because tourists coming to spend a week in Ballinrobe or Cong or Achill from Dublin or Cork are, as far as that region is concerned, just as valuable as those coming from anywhere else and we are very glad to see the increased numbers coming from other parts of the country.

A couple of years back the board were forced, because of the fall-off in numbers to go to Britain to encourage Irish people who work there to come home more often. It is a sad reflection on our attitudes that it took this national crisis within our own country to encourage us to persuade our own people to come back; we should have been doing this long before that. They are now coming in greater numbers.

The farm guesthouse development has been very successful and, as applies to smaller hotels, the personal nature of the service at such guesthouses is, I think, where the future lies and where improvement will continue in providing good service, good meals and clean, comfortable accommodation. These are all important matters and the future of tourism is in our own hands to a certain extent. It will depend on the extent to which we provide such service, good food and keep clean, comfortable accomodation. In a small area where some guesthouses do this extremely well the number coming back to that guesthouse in the following year and to other guesthouses recommended is very substantial. Of course, Bord Fáilte promotion helps but this trend is largely due to the promotion behind the scenes as a result of high standards and of doing things as they should be done. This is of incalculable value. The converse is also true; if standards are shoddy and food grubby, if there is uncleanliness and less than a civil approach, the damage done to the national image and the tourist future of the country is also incalculable.

Promotion of this kind can be done irrespective of good times or bad times for the economy and irrespective of a commitment by the Government. A nation can always improve itself by improving its standards and its simple facilities by such simple things as improving cleanliness and food. These improvements come when people concentrate on doing things as they should be done. There is scope for development in this area and it could redound greatly to the advantage of the country.

Tourist road grants were useful. I know there have been problems in the last few years but we would welcome another look at these. I wonder if the new fund being created could be used in this connection. In my part of the country these tourist road grants opened up roads leading to parts of the bays and parts of the lakes previously unopened. While it is not the function of Bord Fáilte to help local interests or development directly, there is the secondary importance of these road grants in that they also helped local people who lived along such roads and were travelling on them. It was a valuable service.

Other parts of the country have had a preponderance of it but I think we need increased development in all regions. There is no reason why we should not have visits arranged by Bord Fáilte by travel writers and tourist agents from other countries. I should like our area to get a greater share of the national cake in this respect.

Finally, I should like to refer to air services. Even on a very small scale with a limited size of airport, air services can open up traffic that would not otherwise exist. It is not merely a question of providing services to bring people by air rather than by train or car. There is a certain segment of the market prepared to go to places like the west and south-west if there is a possibility of flying there or flying within 50 or 60 miles of such a region. We have problems in Mayo in that respect because the nearest effective airport is at Shannon which is more than 100 miles from us and Dublin is 170 miles. I should like to point out to the Minister the extent of State support which exists in Roinn na Gaeltachta where Aer Arann is concerned in the subsidising of air services connecting different centres. While we should have a separate policy for Gaeltacht areas, if we are speaking in terms of culture, national identity and heritage, when we look at air services and air development if there are areas that are fairly remote and have not been as well developed as others, whether they are Galltacht or Gaeltacht, they deserve equal treatment. If we are speaking about economics and the condition of people we are talking about Irish people and whether they are in Ballycroy or in Achill does not matter a damn; they are in the same region and are equally as badly off.

In some cases there are instances where people are less well off in Galltacht areas than in Gaeltacht areas. We should take a new look at our air services to see if it is possible to get something moving with the type of support that is going into other places. This could open up a market we are not getting at present. I should like to congratulate Bord Fáilte on the work they did under the previous scheme, work which set the headline for the introduction of this Bill. I should like to compliment the Minister for introducing this Bill, for his courage and optimism in the field of tourism which is vitally necessary.

Mr. Brennan

Like other Deputies from the western seaboard I could not let this occasion pass without putting on record my opinion and thoughts about the tourist industry, particularly as this is another step in the matter of tourist development. All speakers complimented the Minister on making the money available. I suppose I should also welcome the small pittance which this Bill makes available for the development of tourism but I am disappointed and appalled at this feeble effort made in the context of what the Minister for Finance said recently, that he had decided at last to produce a plan for the future of the economy.

Tourism is one of the three principal industries on which we depend for the development of the economy. Agriculture, manufacturing industry and tourism are the three industries on which we depend for expansion. Belatedly the Minister for Finance told us that it was hoped by Christmas to produce some sort of plan which the Government have not had and without which a Government cannot work.

Anybody within the economy striving to play his part as an entrepreneur cannot work without such a plan. In that context we have a tourist Bill which provides a paltry £3 million for three or four years without any mention of a plan or a programme for this important industry. Are we going to have expansion or is this merely something to paint the doors, to carry out the minimum of maintenance while we are waiting for a real development plan? Does the future hold what the people in the industry expect, a massive development in the years ahead, another big spurt forward which undoubtedly Fianna Fáil will have to handle as they had in the past? What plan is being prepared?

In this Bill we are extending the statutory limit from £13 million to £16 million for three to four years and many people will be disappointed about this. If this is a measure of what we are to expect in other areas in the field of planning and programming for the economy it is a miserable failure and an excuse for inaction which has marked the working of the Government up to the present. Any money we get is welcome but the amount provided for this industry for three or four years could be absorbed in one county in a year. I am sure the Parliamentary Secretary would be glad to be able to spend the £3 million in Mayo in the next three weeks in an effort to win the by-election. I presume this is part of the programme promised by the Minister for Finance who was shamed by us into making a statement on this matter. The day after the Minister announced that he would have a programme to provide ways and means for the expansion of the economy by Christmas he said we were in for a tough time and everybody must tighten his belt.

I could speak for hours about what should be done to prepare for the big expansion which the tourist industry has a right to expect in the years ahead. When we shake off this lack of activity, when we overcome this period of recession, indecision and uncertainty into which we have been plunged, without any light at the end of the tunnel, with only a hope that the Government will change in the not too distant future, and think of what is likely to happen in the next spurt of development we must look at what this Bill provides with the greatest scepticism and horror.

The £3 million will only paint the doors of a few places to prevent them decaying while they are waiting for development to take place. The tourist development programme would need an injection of money matched by contributions from local authorities and private enterprise that would amount to hundreds of millions of pounds. That amount of money is necessary if we are to take advantage of an industry so necessary for an expansion of our economy. One pound earned from tourism is better than one pound earned from exports of manufacturing industry because the same imported raw material has not to go into it. Money earned from tourism goes towards the reduction of the balance of payments deficit. It has been helpful in the past. We are all aware of what it costs to provide one job in a manufacturing industry and we are ready to give the grants necessary to provide such jobs which are so scarce at present and with the unemployment figure running at 303,000.

Mr. Kelly

That is wishful thinking; it is 103,000. I know the Deputy would like it to be that high.

Mr. Brennan

I am sorry, it is 103,000 but it could be any figure before Christmas.

Mr. Kelly

That is what the Deputy hopes.

Mr. Brennan

Industrialists qualify for tax concessions for exports but the tourist industry is given a miserable £3 million for three years without any regard for the employment given to people in the services ancillary to that industry. Deputies are prepared to breathe a sigh of relief when they see anything going to this industry but if this is an example of what we can expect in the way of planning then we cannot expect much from the plan of the Minister for Finance.

Most of the speakers were parochial and dealt with their own counties. I will not follow that line. If we are to tackle tourism in a proper manner and open up tourism on the western seaboard where we have God-given natural resources, then the least we can do is provide access to those areas. That means we should have proper roads which will serve not only tourism but other developments as well such as fishing and manufacturing industries. We have the worst telephone system in the world. It is a disgrace and has deteriorated in the last couple of years to the extent that it has driven people mad. Many of our tourist resorts do not have an all-night telephone service. This means that the tourists cannot get in touch with their homes and businesses at night. Now, in 1975, we are providing £3 million for the development of this industry over the next three or four years.

If the Government are to make a proper assessment of the importance of this industry to the country, they must put it in the centre of any economic programme and make proper provision for it. I appeal to the Minister to ask the Minister for Finance to look into the situation and not merely to be content with what is being done in this Bill but to make provision that will increase progressively in the coming years for more amenities which will encourage tourists to come and even revisit this country. Private enterprise has been doing a good job in this field.

If I am interpreting correctly what is in the minds of the Hotels Federation, this Bill makes no effort to meet some of their more immediate demands which were outlined in their recently issued pamphlets—for instance, the liquidity problem. Hotel owners have had a few tough years. At the present time they are trying to service bank loans which are causing quite a problem. There is no provision in this Bill to case that problem, which is one of the provisions the Hotel Federation demanded recently. If these people are to continue in existence they will need assistance to ease the liquidity problem. The fact that last year was reasonably good does not overcome that difficulty.

In his opening speech the Minister pointed out that provision had been made last year for improvement of accommodation. He said he was disappointed with the response, and rightly so, because the grant was 50 per cent. The people in the tourist industry were already in debt with the banks and could not find the extra credit necessary to carry out the works on which they would get the 50 per cent grants. As a result they could not take advantage of the grants. They appealed to the Minister for assistance to repay their debts to the banks and others.

Private enterprise is always ready to give time, money, and effort towards providing amenities. Making the most of our abundant natural resources would require many millions of pounds to be spent over a period with a planned programme. The necessary development of amenities in these areas, without any encroachment on the environment or the natural amenities which are still unspoiled in most parts of the country, would require the spending of £100 million as well as the contributions to be made by the local authorities.

What provision will we have made for the enormous expansion which will come when the position in Northern Ireland eases off, as it must at some stage; when this recession passes, as it must—we had a few experiences of this before when we had a Coalition Government and they do not last forever and the recession will pass with them—and when the EEC new tourist markets are opened and fully developed, and more continental tourists come here? This Bill provides £3 million, a sum which could be spent on the bye-election in County Mayo in three weeks' time.

I do not see any reason for congratulating the Minister. This small sum is better than nothing but I would urge him to have a serious talk with the Minister for Finance to ensure that this industry is included in the planned project which is expected at Christmas. I was glad of the opportunity of referring to this and I hope for an opportunity in my time of reintroducing a programme which will develop tourism here.

Mr. Toal

I note from the Minister's speech that the emphasis by Bord Fáilte will be placed on the improvement of accommodation in hotels as opposed to the provision of extra accommodation. In my view there is sufficient accommodation in hotels and guesthouses. The accommodation as it stands leaves a lot to be desired, particularly amenities provided for guests visiting hotels. I do not know what system Bord Fáilte use for grading hotels but in the recent past many hotels have degenerated into nothing more than glorified public dancehalls. Apparently, on the flimsiest of excuses a hotelier may go to the court and get an extension until 2 a.m. almost every night of the week with the result that most hotels have late night extensions. This, to my mind, is one of the root causes of teenage drinking. These hoteliers do not have the hotel business at heart; they are more interested in the bar side of the trade. That may be good for the hoteliers but they are depriving publicans in the district of muchneeded business and are creating serious problems in communities throughout the country. Many organisations have passed resolutions but all of them are powerless in the matter. Overnight hotels have gone into the discotheque business and this entertainment is carried on every night. I would urge the Minister and Bord Fáilte when the matter of grading hotels is being considered to take this aspect into account and to censure the hotels accordingly. This public dancehall type of trade and the late night extension racket have become a feature of hotels in rural Ireland and they have lost much of what was good in hotel life in the past.

I welcome the setting up of the tourist development fund. The Opposition may say that enough money has not been provided but they would say that about everything nowadays. We must face the fact that the country has serious economic difficulties but the development fund now being set up is a good thing and tourism, which is the second major industry, will benefit. We may have plans and proposals and invest huge sums in tourism but despite all of these things one petrol bomb thrown at an embassy, one single kidnapping incident of a prominent foreigner, can do more damage to tourism and can put all the plans, programmes and investments into tatters overnight. In these days where there are desperate and dark forces at work, the Minister is to be congratulated on setting up this fund.

Tourism has always appeared to me to be a completely non-political subject. It is an ideal way to promote co-operation, understanding and friendship with our neighbours in Northern Ireland. I would urge Bord Fáilte to encourage chambers of commerce to contact their counterparts in the North and to arrange holiday weekends with them. Bord Fáilte should subsidise these holiday weekends.

There are many other organisations connected with tourism. If the Office of Public Works carried out a proper drainage scheme in the Erne catchment, it would do more for tourism in that inland region than any other plan. The Erne waterway has vast potential for boating and fishing and this could be exploited to the benefit of the community.

I endorse the remarks of the Parliamentary Secretary when he more or less decried country Deputies for dwelling on their own constituencies too much, forgetting about the capital city. All of us have an interest in Dublin but I must admit that it is no source of pride. Rather it is a source of shame because it is one of the most dilapidated capitals in Europe. If Bord Fáilte or a Government Department could do something to pull this city together and to put it into some kind of shape it would be a welcome development. A visitor to London will see the lovely parks there, there are the boulevards in Paris and there are the fountains in Rome but what will a foreigner see in Dublin? One could show him the Four Courts, Leinster House and the National Gallery but one would need to bring him on a very special tour if he were not to be confronted with the dilapidated buildings dotting this town. I agree with the Parliamenetary Secretary's remarks that Bord Fáilte should pay more attention to the capital city.

As one Monaghan man to another, I should like to congratulate Deputy Leonard on his appointment as party spokesman on tourism.

Mr. Callanan

This is an important debate because tourism is necessary for the survival of the country. I shall not deal with Dublin because I am sure it will be dealt with adequately. I shall discuss the country areas but I shall try not to be too parochial. Tourism is very important for the country areas and Bord Fáilte are doing a good job in their efforts to sell this country abroad. However the best ambassador is the visitor who has spent a happy holiday here and who will tell others to come here. Bord Fáilte are engaging in a worthwhile exercise in carrying out a survey of visitors and asking for their complaints and comments.

The majority of proprietors of guesthouses or hotels keep visitors' books and they give every opportunity to visitors to write their comments. I have seen quite a few such visitors' books and there are comments from people of practically every nationality. The vast majority of visitors were quite satisfied although some complained that the larger seaside resorts were too commercialised. Many visitors preferred the smaller places but frequently these were badly signposted. Many of the beautiful areas in the country are not adequately signposted. A number of visitors thought the hotels were too much alike. Personally I prefer a place like Poulaphouca House rather than a modern, continental-style hotel. Tourists want to see something different when they come to Ireland. From the comments some of them made I gather the food was reasonably good and most of them were interested in home cooking. In the visitors book of one guesthouse there were many comments about the home-made brown bread served in that house. Bord Fáilte can promote as many campaigns as they wish but if visitors are not satisfied they will not return to this country.

I welcome the amount of money being spent on the amenity areas in the west of Ireland but much more is needed. The telephone system in the west is bad, the roads are not up to standard and the local authorities are not able to provide enough money for good roadways. We must also consider the question of planning in amenity areas. Housing is not allowed in such areas except in very exceptional cases. In Connemara there is a very beautiful drive along the coast road from Clifden to Galway and there are very few houses there. However, where it would not interfere with the scenic view, an occasional house should be allowed. There should not be a blanket ruling that no house be built in these amenity areas. Even in respect of rural cottages—I would prefer to call them houses—there are set planning regulations but in order to keep Ireland beautiful and attractive there must be variety in house styles. People for whom cottages are being built should have a say in the designing of them. While there are good solid houses in most of our housing estates, the design is uniform for each estate. Anybody who designed a house that appeared to be out of character was usually told that he did not comply with the Planning Act. This was a pity because it led to the uniform type of building.

Another matter that is of vital importance and which needs careful consideration by any Government is the question of where to draw the line in relation to environment and to the protection of the country against pollution. If we are to make employment available for our people and, especially, if we are to provide off-farm employment for small farmers, we must have industry but at the same time we must be careful in the siting of industries that we do not destroy or pollute the countryside. Something we gained by this country having been occupied for years was that it was a holiday place for people from across the water. In those times no industries were allowed to be developed here. Consequently the air was pure and clean. Anybody who has been to an industrialised country will have noticed the difference in the air on his return here. This is true particularly of anybody, like myself, who suffers from any chest condition.

However, it is practically impossible to industrialise a country while keeping the air free from pollution. But we must ensure the application of every modern way of preventing pollution. After that the matter is simply one of making a decision as between people and pure air. Nobody can say that it is possible to industrialise a country and at the same time to ensure that the air will be as pure as it was before. There may be a number of clean industries but no industry is totally clean. Indeed, anywhere there is a concentration of smoke, even if it is in the form of exhaust fumes from cars, there is some pollution. While a Minister for the environment might be of much use in this regard he would need to apply much common sense to his decisions. The aim must be to have a balance as between the creation of employment and industry and the keeping of the air free from pollution in so far as that is possible but it must be our priority to provide employment for our people.

Roads and their signposting are very important in tourist areas. It is important, too, that the smaller amenity areas are developed. Close to where I live there is a rainbow trout lake and Bord Fáilte have co-operated with the local farmers in regard to the area so that there is no bad feeling locally. At one time that was not the situation but now stiles have been erected and all is well. In this connection I would ask the Minister to bring his influence to bear on the Minister for Local Government with a view to a restoration of the amenity grants. These grants were of immense value in the smaller amenity areas. I have been told that some of the larger tourist areas are becoming too commercialised and, consequently, have lost their appeal for the ordinary tourist.

Regarding grants for guesthouses, I was surprised to find last year that Bord Fáilte were not inclined to give any such grants. There was one case which concerned a very beautiful guesthouse near where I live and which overlooked a lake. The guesthouse owner applied for a grant towards the provision of a couple of additional rooms but he was refused. There was a rumour, too, that Bord Fáilte were not inclined to give grants to hotels in the smaller amenity areas. While there may be too many guesthouses and hotels in some areas, it is not fair to apply a blanket rule in regard to grants. In the past Ireland had the reputation of being one of the cheapest countries in which to live. This was a great attraction for tourists but it is no longer the case. It might be said that we have priced ourselves out of the tourist market. It is very costly to stay in a first-class hotel. While there are people who require this type of accommodation, many in the middleincome group opt for a guesthouse. There is also the consideration of the livelihoods of the people involved in providing this accommodation.

I trust that any guesthouse owner who genuinely wishes to expand will qualify for an appropriate grant in 1976. I trust that some of the money being voted will be devoted to this purpose.

Some foreigners whom I met here expressed disappointment that they did not see enough of our Irish culture of which they had heard so much. There seems to be the impression among our own people that unless we become European in our ways there is no respect for us but to those people I would say that there would be much more respect for us if we were to preserve our Irish culture, not in the stage-Irish fashion but in the fashion of the everyday life of our people. We have some of the best games in the world. Hurling is one of the most exciting games to watch. They have seen our dances and have been very taken with them. They have heard our songs and our language, which some run down because of some kind of inferiority complex. Because of that inferiority complex it is felt apparently that if we present ourselves as native Irish with an Irish culture we are just not in the picture.

In the big hotels the normal everyday life of our people is not presented. It is our culture people come here to experience because they have read about it and want to experience it at first hand. If they stay in big hotels they go away disappointed. Our big hotels are facsimiles of continental hotels. Variety is very important. Most people love variety. We had a good deal of variety in the past and that was probably what made the country such a tourist attraction. I do not want the variety of poverty. One can have variety without poverty. The Irish way of life would be an attraction to tourists.

I congratulate Bord Fáilte on doing a really good job. Someone referred to the closing down of CIE hotels. I would be critical of the sale of these hotels at a time when prices are depressed because CIE would sell at a loss. CIE should not pull out of the hotel business. I do not approve of big hotels being built in isolated areas because they have to be closed down during the winter. I would approve of small family businesses or smaller hotels. I also think there should be restaurants to cater for people who are travelling. We all love Connemara in the summertime but none of us would like to live there in the depths of winter.

I trust the few remarks I have made will be helpful to the Minister. I know from experience in questioning tourists that what they want is good service. We will not sell the country unless we give good service.

Mr. McLaughlin

I welcome the setting up of this fund and I congratulate the Minister on the fund. My constituency of Sligo-Leitrim has a good deal to offer to the tourist. We have the Yeats' country. It is famed all over the world. We have many scenic areas. We have Lough Gill, Rosses Point, Strandhill and other areas. I was always a little sceptical of tourism because so many of our own people were coming home every year but this year I discovered we had something to offer to tourists. Tremendous business was done in the west as a result of tourists. They were a great boom. Bed and breakfast accommodation was very popular and I congratulate those who provided this amenity. If people enjoy a good holiday they are the best advertisement we could have for the country. During the holiday season the caravans, motorised and horse drawn, were very noticeable. The caravan parks were full. This was good for the local business community and for the garages. The weather was, of course, ideal.

With regard to big hotels, a few years ago a plan was prepared for an extraordinarily large hotel in Sligo. Fortunately the plan did not go ahead. Hotels like this are a waste of money, money on which there is no hope of getting a return. The Minister and his Department should look after what we have and keep them going instead of spending large sums of money on such a proposed building in Sligo.

Occasionally public representatives are approached about delay in the payment of grants. I know some people who spent in the region of £12,000 and did a good job. I was tired making representations to the Tourist Board for a grant of about £700. Where at all possible, people dealing with tourism should try to have these grants paid quickly. It takes a very substantial sum of money today to carry out a job.

A good deal more money could be earned by the tourist industry if the board encouraged people to spend their money at home. There is a tendency today for many young people who are financially well-off to go abroad on holiday. We have beauty spots throughout the length and breadth of Ireland which can compare favourably with any scenery in any other country. We have beauty spots in Donegal, Sligo, Cork, Kerry, and in many other counties. We should encourage our people to spend their money at home if at all possible. The country has gone through a rather tough time in the past few years. We are well on the road to recovery at this stage. We should do all in our power to hasten that recovery. This would mean that the Tourist Board could pay out money more freely. When we contact them about a grant we are told there is no money.

When the Tourist Board sanction the payment of a grant family circumstances may prevent the carrying out of the job and people are told they will have to get sanction again for the same job. That is most unfair. When a job is sanctioned that sanction should stand until the people are ready to carry out the job.

I should like to congratulate members of Tidy Town Committees. We owe a great deal to them. They work from April until September to keep their villages tidy and clean and bright. Were it not for the industrious members of those committees our tourists would have much more to complain about.

Many beauty spots in the west should receive more publicity. There are two lakes not very far from my own area, Lough Gill and Glencar Lake, which should be widely publicised. The fact that roads leading into the more backward parts of our rural areas are rolled and tarred is a big help to the tourist trade. If people follow the tarred roads they can go right up into the mountains. The local authorities have spent money and done a good job.

To protect our tourist trade we have to give a good deal of thought to pollution. I should like to congratulate the Sligo development committee on having ensured that any industry brought to the area was established two, three or four miles from the town of Sligo. We have three very successful industries there and all three are clear of the town. That is a great credit to the IDA and all those responsible for the establishment of those industries.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Dr. Gibbons.

Mr. Coughlan

I have offered on two occasions already. Four Fianna Fáil members have already spoken and three from the Fine Gael benches.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair takes speakers from alternate sides of the House. The Deputy should know that.

Dr. Gibbons

I regret very much that the Minister did not see his way to circulating a map or some diagram indicating the draft designated areas or the formulated zoning strategy decided on by Bord Fáilte. Would it be possible to have this circulated to Deputies at some later date?

Mr. P. Barry

It will be published with the Bord Fáilte development plan and Deputies will get copies.

Dr. Gibbons

When?

Mr. P. Barry

Some time in the next three or four months.

Dr. Gibbons

I am interested in this because I live in a part of the country which has been damned by virtue of the fact that we find ourselves in different areas and different regions for the various activities of the State and local bodies. Where I live convenient to Arigna mountain bestrides three counties. Over the years I have made various efforts to have this developed. At one time we went to some expense locally to put up signposts. We got as far as buying all the material to put up the signposts and we were told we would have to have planning permission from the county council. Then we were told the signposts would have to be approved by and come from Bord Fáilte. To make a long story short, nothing was done. Had it been left to private initiative, and if we were not bogged down in rules and regulations, we probably would have done something.

In the past I pointed out to the House that tourism development should take place in what one must regard as more or less a natural area. I consider that the area with which I am most acquainted, the Sligo area, would take in Boyle, Carrick-on-Shannon. Drumshanbo and all that part of North Leitrim. It is an awful waste of resources to see the various towns publishing their own literature, circulating it and making reference to nothing outside perhaps a four or five mile limit. As somebody said earlier, there is not much opportunity for lying in the sun in this country; one is more likely to move from one place to another. Composite information for a reasonably large area like this would be of much benefit to the tourist and the area concerned. That is one of the reasons I should like to see the map.

The other question I wanted to pose is in regard to zoning. When one looks at the development of the Shannon one sees that it is really divided into three or four zones. It is difficult to develop the Shannon on a proper basis while that obtains. Has any thought been given to developing the Shannon as one unit? Bord Fáilte have spent a considerable amount of money on the Shannon and have made a number of amenities available there. To that extent we cannot complain. If I may mention two in particular—the development of Carrick-on-Shannon and the contribution made by Bord Fáilte to the development of Forest Park in Boyle, both of which indicate what can be done by an interested body if money is made available. As Deputy Brennan has already pointed out, unfortunately the amount of money which will become available for such work in the future will be limited.

It appears to be much easier for the old, traditional places to attract interest and get money rather than the new places entering the tourist scene for the first time. I suppose that is understandable on a cost-benefit basis. Nevertheless, when, in what must be described as a virgin area, over a period of years one finds help is very slow in coming, one is inclined to give up the ghost. For that reason I would suggest to Bord Fáilte and to the Minister that some thought be given to those areas in the future. Many of these virgin areas have advantages from the point of view of tourist development. They have less pollution, one can carry out more sophisticated development there and make better use of the bogs around them.

Deputy Callanan referred to amenity grants. With him I regret very much that they have been curtailed. One feels that if such schemes were developed throughout the virgin areas it would be of tremendous benefit to tourism and constitute a tremendous attraction for potential tourists to those areas.

I listened to all of the debate today. Much has been said about hotels and extending the drinking hours. I would have some doubt about it. There may be some justification for extending the licensing hours in very limited circumstances. On the whole I think the time allowed for drinking in the country is sufficiently long. I am aware that the biggest objection one English tourist had about coming to Ireland on holiday was that he could not go into a publichouse without having people pouring drink into him; he could not take a quiet drink; he had to stand there while everybody proposed that he should have a round. As a result he said he would not come back next year because he did not want his family contaminated by the habits he observed in that place. That is another aspect and in respect of which we must think of our own people also. If the drinking hours are extended the tourists are not the only people who will avail of them.

I have no intention of repeating anything that has already been said. I rose merely to make those few points, particularly in regard to the designated areas, the question of development of a number of areas together rather than have them all going it alone. Bord Fáilte could do a lot in that direction. This should be done with regard to inland areas in particular as against the traditional seaside ones. If there was sufficient literature available pointing out to people who went to those traditional areas that there were other attractions for them inland, that would be a means of dividing the cake more equally throughout the country.

There is another aspect of this with which I have experienced difficulty. One has certain things on one's mind that one proposes to do. One makes suggestions to people that they co-operate in the interests of tourism. Such people may not have seen much benefit from tourism. Probably they are somewhat conservative in their outlook and therefore they are not prepared to co-operate. On the other hand, if a system were to be implemented of having tourists filter into the inland part of the country, over a period of time such people would see things in a different light and it would then be much easier for those interested in that type of work to get it started.

Mr. Coughlan

I take this opportunity of welcoming the Bill and of congratulating the Minister for putting so concisely before us what exactly the tourist trade means to the country. I want also to make some suggestions which I hope bear merit and will be helpful.

To outline what I have in mind, perhaps I may refer to one sentence of the Minister's statement when he said:

The Government can help the industry only if the industry helps itself.

As I see it, there lies the kernel of the problem. Bord Fáilte have done tremendous work within their limits but, unfortunately, they fell on lean times like every other industry. They did carry on in very difficult times improving our tourist trade. Now that the Minister sees the situation gradually returning to what it was, I must congratulate him, in anticipation of the reaction, on having taken the necessary steps to meet the demand. For that reason also I shall make some remarks and put forward some suggestions which I hope will be helpful. First of all, I have in mind designated areas. When we speak of designated areas we must understand what they mean. People talk about designated areas and about places that could be as far removed from tourism as we are from the Sahara Desert.

I would direct the Minister's attention to an area that has now completed in great detail a development plan for its tourism and tourist attractions, that is, the regional development organisation in conjunction with Shannonside. I had the honour of attending a Press conference in Clare on Monday or Tuesday which was attended by the public representatives of the counties Limerick, Clare and Tipperary and also by the local government officials, local public representatives and the tourist trade generally. There we outlined a programme for the region which comprises Clare, Tipperary and Limerick. It was the first publication of its kind presented in the country. It was detailed minutely and showed exactly what the potential was.

There is no use in people coming in here and talking about the variety of houses. What have Bord Fáilte to do with the variety or painting of houses? What have they to do with the laying of roads? That is not their job. Their job is the development of the region as a tourist attraction. I must congratulate, as I did yesterday, Shannonside and the regional development organisation for the months and months of hard work and study they put into this, showing benefits and attractions of all kinds to meet all pockets, which is a most essential thing.

The Minister should avail himself of the opportunity of going through that document. There were four speakers in all at the meeting from the body of the hall and I got the impression from one side anyway that there was a clash of bodies or personalities or whatever it was because of the fact that one group said: "We were doing this and not you" and taking exception because we had an advanced, energetic group who were prepared to go ahead with the development of the region generally. If this trend is allowed to develop in regard to what is being presented to us—and I am glad to see Deputy Daly here; I think he was there on Tuesday and I know Deputy Sylvester Barrett was there—if these bodies are allowed clash because one authority says "I did this and not you, and you are taking credit for something you did not do", this could spoil the whole movement.

We have in our region developments which cannot be surpassed in any other part of the country. We have developed our castles and made them an attraction for which it is practically impossible, unless a pre-booking is arranged, to get accommodation. We have more castles for development, and again I want to thank the Minister for the trouble he took in coming to Limerick and going step by step through a castle which is there for hundreds of years and which is bady in need of development as a tourist attraction. I know this has engaged his attention since his visit to Limerick, for which we are very thankful. It was not every Minister we could get to do that.

As well as the castles, we have the attraction of the country cottage, and these cottages must be booked well in advance. They are all similar—despite some people's opinion that there should be a variety—throughout Limerick, Clare and Tipperary. They are all laid out in the traditional Irish style of a country thatched cottage, fully equipped, in a modern manner, on the one hand, and in an old Irish fashion, on the other hand. These cottages scattered all over the region are one of our greatest tourist attractions. I would recommend to the Deputies in other areas to go there or at least get a booklet on what was presented to us yesterday by the regional development organisation together with Shannonside. We have done all these things because we have bodies, not as united as I would like to see them but, as the Minister said in his statement, engaged in a combined effort. When you get that you will have success.

Despite what has been said to the contrary, we are preserving and projecting our Irish culture; the siamsaí, the céilithe always took place at night in the public houses, particularly around the Lisdoonvarna areas, which Deputy Callanan should know well. I can assure you that that is where the European and American tourists who come amongst us are happy to spend their time. They are well catered for in our region, and I am surprised that statements are being made to the contrary by people coming from that area. It is a well-known fact that in the month of September, particularly around Lisdoonvarna and Ballyvaughan, you can dance and sing until all hours of the morning. I am not mentioning anything about the licensing laws; I shall talk about that in a moment. Despite the restrictions that are laid upon us during the summer season, our Irish culture is well protected. That was glaringly seen particularly in the village of Lahinch during the summer when people went into a particular public house because it was old-fashioned and then danced all through the day and night in the street outside that public house.

This is the type of attraction the tourist wants. He wants to get away from the campus; he wants to get away from the expensive lay-out. When a person goes away for relaxation and for a vacation, he wants to get a completely different atmosphere to what he has left. This is what we should be striving to provide, and this is what we are providing in our region. Our region has been mapped and graphed. The attractions that may be popular in one place may not be liked in another place, but we have co-ordinated the whole region with different amusements and attractions to suit all tastes and pockets. That is the kernel of the success of our tourist trade. We all know what farm holidays are. The farm houses are there. Most of us who want to get away from our everyday tensions and worries prefer to go as far away from the telephone and newspaper as we possibly can. This is the relaxation people want. While we face up to the troublesome times through which we are going there are times when we want to get away from them. This is the key to the success of tourism.

We hear talk about holidays abroad. While I have been abroad on many an occasion it was not on holidays. However, I spent one holiday abroad when I had to get up with the clock, go out with the clock and eat with the clock. It was like being on a barrack square and was no holiday for me. I could stay up until 4 o'clock in the morning in the bar if I wished but I had to be down again at 9 o'clock in the morning. I had to be out at 10 o'clock, back again at one, out at three and back again at six for a dinner nobody wanted. If that is what people want on a holiday they can have it. I had that type of holiday once and I do not want it again. I believe I am not alone in this. Cheap fares may be an attraction but in the long run people find that what tourism means is relaxation and comfort.

We can give relaxation and comfort to foreigners as well as to our own people. I want to congratulate Bord Fáilte for working under such financial difficulties over the last few years. In my area we are determined to develop what we have to the utmost because by our actions in the past we have created a region which caters for all. We attract everybody to our area. The only thing I will say is that our licensing laws need some reform. When a young family come on holiday the children are out on fine evenings up to 10 o'clock. They then have to be settled in and after that if the parents want to meet friends and go out for a drink the Garda are down on them. Some members of the Garda are understanding but there are other members who are very different and want to regulate everybody's life as well as their own. The licensing laws should be relaxed particularly for the people who have only about three months in the year to try to make up for what others can do all the year around.

I said I would be as brief as the Minister was in his statement; I hope I will be as effective as he has been. In my area we have a very great attraction—the airport. We can send people from there all over Ireland. We have a shopping centre. The Minister will receive requests with regard to the development of this region, including the airport. We have set a headline for the country and I know that because of what we have done others will come along and copy the headline. I know there will be demands from other regions when they see what we have done but we want to go a few steps further for the completion of our programme. I appeal to the Minister, when he receives those requests, to give them the attention they deserve. The Minister at some inconvenience came and saw what we have done in regard to castle development and cottage development so I believe we will get what we require. The other regions can then come along and see the whole complex in the perfection which we will present.

Ruairí Brugha

The Minister presented a very interesting speech which is very welcome because it indicates support by him for the tourist development plan and the principles behind it. The tourist industry is very valuable to us and is also essential to us at the present time. Tourist income is money in the bag as every pound spent by a visitor is equal to about £1.40 in exports because the visitor pays the full retail price for whatever he buys while what Irish industry earns from abroad is on the cost price.

Few people realise the tremendous value of the approximately £120 million tourism income we benefit from here and of the large volume of employment that is generated through that income. I welcome the Minister's approach in his speech. It is important that the Government should understand what is set out in the tourist development plan. It is not just a plan for next year or the following year but a longterm plan which will call for considerable capital if the tourist industry is to keep up with the growth forecast as projected by Bord Fáilte. If the Government provide the necessary capital for tourist development the money will come back to us as a community.

Other Deputies have complimented Bord Fáilte and I should like to add my tribute. I have studied their conservation policy and generally I am aware of the considerable degree of headwork that has been going on among themselves and with consultants over the past couple of years. They are to be complimented on their approach to conservation.

In addition to Bord Fáilte's efforts we have the excellent efforts of the many tourist regions. These regions are administered by managers under voluntary boards and they represent an excellent example of decentralisation of effort to local areas. I do not think the efforts made by these voluntary bodies could be matched by any form of State agency. Supporting the regions is a very large number—about 600, I think—of national and local industries and enterprises of various kinds who are contributing for years past very large sums of money—large in terms of what individual businesses can afford—up to a total not far short of £100,000 at present. This indicates what business generally feels about tourism and its value to ordinary enterprise and to the economy.

There are also the efforts made by many private individuals many of whom—I have no idea who they are— do a considerable amount of voluntary work travelling abroad and persuading different groups to visit Ireland and generally publicising Ireland abroad. Results this year to date, while not good, should give most of us confidence. The American market has held up although it is down in the European area. There is a pretty satisfactory increase in the number of European visitors and, in the circumstances of the present time here, the British market is quite satisfactory.

On the work of Bord Fáilte it is good to note the local improvements that have resulted from the efforts of the board and regional bodies and local authorities in the case of resorts. I urge the Minister to give all possible support in that area because I believe that money spent on improvement of resorts, recreation schemes and so on is well spent. In trying to apply a conservation policy Bord Fáilte arranged a survey and I noted their positive approach to the very serious problem of pollution of rivers and of the importance in the expansion of tourism of protection of the environment and amenities. This highlights the need for some form of national environmental amenity and planning authority, whether a Department or agency. The important thing is to have one: it is badly needed and its lack emphasises the failure of the Government to give a clear lead in this area. I do not want to overstress this subject which has been spoken of a great deal but if we have no means of effectively protecting our landscape and environment generally from increasing pollution and if we have no national authority able to take planning decisions regarding the siting of industry, particularly oil refineries, we will be called to account at a later stage. The time is now ripe for the Government to make a decision in this matter rather than have the existing position continue where the matter of environment, amenities and pollution is divided between several Departments.

I now come to a couple of points of criticism. There is still serious inadequacy in road signs from the viewpoint of visiting motorists. While this is the function of local authorities it is a sign of failure on our part in that area. The Minister, with the Minister for Local Government, should make an effort to increase the rate of improvement and updating of road signs.

Deputy Brennan spoke of the number of hotels that are facing difficulty arising out of the recent years of, one might say, unsatisfactory results. I should like to see the Minister finding some means of helping some of these hotels, the more valuable ones anyway, over the hump. I am sure the Minister is aware that there are some hotels which cost a lot of money to put into existence and which have come up against hard times. Like industries they are finding it difficult to provide the liquid capital. I do not know what means there is for helping in exceptional circumstances of this kind but I should like to point out that the same principle applies to them as applies to any industry which is in a similar difficulty: they do not need very much but, if they do not get it, it will cost four or five times as much to replace them if they go out of business.

I understand that the Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach, Deputy Kelly, was critical of the condition of Dublin at present and I should like to say something on that subject. I know the bye-laws are not up to date in regard to the maintenance of premises, that there is a difficult problem with Dublin Corporation regarding private premises. Something should be done to deal with that problem and ensuring that the owners of premises which are empty keep them in order. In my view the reason there are such a large number of vacant premises in the city at present largely arises out of the inflationary situation. A big part of that inflationary situation arises out of the present Government's failure to deal with the problem.

Another problem which has been developing in Dublin in the last few years is the serious shortage of gardaí in the city centre. There has been an obvious increase in vandalism, especially at night, and we have the problem of the continuous breaking of shop windows. I can understand the difficulties about supplying gardaí but nevertheless in a street like O'Connell Street, if anything happens during the evening, one can hardly find a garda and this is not good enough. I realise there is a difficult civic and social problem developing anyway in major cities such as Dublin. The problem calls for a new approach on the part of the local authorities, the schools and the Garda to the question of what means one can find, other than punishment which is not enough, to ensure some standard of civic behaviour.

The Government should be alert to the seriousness of this matter and give a lead in bringing together the various elements who are only waiting for a guide. The areas I speak of are the schools, the Garda and the local authorities. We are gradually moving into the sort of situation which highly industrialised areas such as Dublin suffer from. I speak of this mainly from the point of view of its ill effect on visitors to to the city. We would all like visitors to the city to be able to leave after their tour with a good impression of Dublin.

Mr. O'Kennedy

In the course of his speech the Minister told us that the pressure on existing sources was such that the quality which attracts the visitor is being eroded. He was referring to the environment and the problems we face not just in maintaining the environment but ensuring that for those who live here and for those who visit us the environment will remain one of the most attractive assets of the country. It is significant that a number of those who have been calling for a Department of the Environment recently associated that with a call for a separate Department of Tourism. They have suggested that a Department of the Environment would also be associated appropriately with a Department concerned with tourism.

There is a great deal of justification for this approach and the Minister's speech today significantly, and properly, devotes a considerable amount of attention to the environment. In other speeches made by Ministers for Transport and Power in introducing a Bill of this type there has been little or no reference to the environment. This Minister has seen fit to make a detailed reference to it particularly because of Bord Fáilte's concern for the environment. For that reason it is difficult to square the Minister's concern, Bord Fáilte's concern, with the Taoiseach's total lack of concern. Once again the Taoiseach has proved in this House— I say it once again because he referred us today to a reply he gave six months ago—that apparently he is not aware of the concern nor is he determined or convinced in any sense of the need to deal with this situation.

Mr. P. Barry

On a point of accuracy, the Taoiseach today said an inter-departmental committee was sitting on this matter but they had not reported yet.

Mr. O'Kennedy

In the first instance he referred us to the reply he gave in April, 1974.

Mr. P. Barry

Which was to the effect that an inter-departmental committee was sitting on this matter.

Mr. O'Kennedy

Had he shared the concern of so many people who have this feeling he might have been a little more generous in expressing this. He might have shown the concern of this Minister activated by Bord Fáilte.

Mr. P. Barry

I do not like interrupting the Deputy but he has been grossly unfair to and is misrepresenting what the Taoiseach said at Question Time. Fortunately I was here at that time and heard what the Taoiseach said.

Mr. O'Kennedy

It is hard to recall what the Taoiseach said because the Taoiseach is not in the habit of saying that much but in this area it is important that we activate a concern. There is screaming around the country while we at this end, the Government in particular, are showing no signs of urgency in this area.

Mr. P. Barry

The Taoiseach said an inter-departmental committee was sitting on this matter and he did not want to prejudge their findings by making an announcement at this stage. That was the perfectly rational, sensible thing to say.

Mr. O'Kennedy

The Taoiseach made some other extraordinary statements and if the Minister wishes to argue on them I will. He said that because there were so many it was difficult to co-ordinate——

Mr. P. Barry

And that is why the inter-departmental committee are sitting on this matter. There is no point in pretending that there is not a problem in this regard.

Mr. O'Kennedy

It is vitally important that there should be a tourism conservation policy but this must not be left only to Bord Fáilte, because conservation of the environment is not a matter that can be delegated to a committed, informed and concerned semi-State body such as Bord Fáilte is in this area. For instance, the Minister said that it was the board's eventual aim to persuade the local authorities to incorporate the designated areas into their statutory development plan. He went on to describe the local authorities as the "guardians of the environment". It would be no harm if we made a realistic assessment of what is involved here. If anyone can say with any degree of conviction that our local authorities in any real sense are the guardians of the environment, then all I can say is forget it because they have neither the expertise nor the capacity to be the guardians of the environment. For the Minister to so describe them is not in accordance with reality. If they were and if they had the necessary expertise and capacity, I am sure they would do what they could to remedy the situation.

I do not think the local authorities, as at present constituted, can have within themselves the necessary degree of research, expertise, or development of new ideas, to be dynamic bodies in this or any other area because they are purely administrative. If there is a local authority engineer concerned about the environment, it is a very casual, part-time concern. I mention this so that we can place this problem to which the Minister has paid some attention in its proper context. It is important that we adopt an efficient and determined approach to this problem as has been done in almost every developed country in Europe and elsewhere whose main attractions for visitors are the cleanliness of their cities, the development of their forests and their cool, clean, pure air and water.

Now we come to the Minister's responsibility. In my constituency and others we have seen evidence of the damage done by one State body because of the lack of overall control. With everybody in this House, including the Minister, I support what Bord na Móna are doing. I am glad to see they are having a successful period. They are generating employment and playing a very crucial part in the country's economy. It can be said without very much qualification that the operations of that board along the Shannon and the silt from those operations have in a very real way damaged our most basic amenity in central Ireland—the River Shannon. If the Minister doubts me, he can consult any number of anglers' associations, yacht clubs and swimming clubs, and he will find that this is the case. It is rather strange that the Minister responsible for directly co-ordinating the activities of all these State bodies, including Bord Fáilte, should not see the obvious contradiction here, that a body which is operating under the direction of the Department of Transport and Power is one of the culprits against which Bord Fáilte have so properly directed their concern.

This again highlights the urgent need for a Department with control over the environment. We have been told that for the past 12 months a review body have been considering how to co-ordinate such matters, and they may be sitting for a further 12 months. While all this is happening, what is so relevant and necessary to present-day conditions here is being postponed. Apparently the Minister should have control to deal with bodies which are in a very real way contributing to pollution. This, too, highlights the need for overall control and direction.

The location of industries has been referred to and I do not need to go into any great detail on this. Obviously, if the authority concerned with the location of industries is the Minister for Local Government after consultation with the Minister for Industry and Commerce, then, in my view, there is little hope that environmental programming will be taken into account, judging by some of the decisions which were taken recently by the Minister for Local Government. A Minister responsible for drainage, sewerage and other services, even if he were activated by concern —and there is little evidence that the present holder is—would scarcely be the man to exercise appropriate control over the environment. The result is that there appears to be a lack of consistency and clear direction in the location of industries.

Our tourism programme in isolation cannot be directed solely towards the visitor because the visitor will only see the conditions in which we live. He will be attracted to Ireland if our normal conditions are attractive. The ability to walk down the streets at night in peace and safety was an attraction in this and other cities in the past but that is not so now. Visitors have expressed some concern about this, although in comparison with other cities we do not have such a great problem. This problem goes beyond the responsibility of Bord Fáilte. As a matter of social obligation, we must show our social concern by attacking this problem in a very determined and positive way and so setting a headline for others. This will show that we are concerned and as a result visitors will realise that when they come here on holidays they will enjoy themselves and can walk our cities in peace and security.

Of course, one can over-stress this point. I am not suggesting for a moment that there is a pattern of open crime in our streets—far from it. This may call for a reallocation within the Garda who are at present very much concerned with matters of fundamental concern to the State, and, if this means extra recruitment, it can only be to the benefit of all concerned. Bord Fáilte have done a lot by promoting tidy towns, because environment is not just concerned with forests, rivers and lakes.

Debate adjourned.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 23rd October, 1975.