(Dublin Central) asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if members of the staff of his Department were allowed time off on the national day of mourning to attend the funeral of former President Eamon de Valera.
42.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - PO Staff Funeral Attendance.
41.
(Dublin Central) asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if employees of his Department, in areas other than Dublin, who took time off to attend religious services on the national day of mourning for the late Eamon de Valera, had deductions made in their pay for so doing.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 41 and 42 together.
The arrangements approved for the civil service generally were applied in my Department. Staffs in Dublin offices who were not required for maintenance of essential services were given time off to enable them to pay their respects as the funeral cortège passed.
Some staff at five offices outside Dublin absented themselves from duty without authority on the day in question for periods ranging from one to four hours. In accordance with standard practice, pay was disallowed for the periods of unauthorised absence.
May I ask the Minister, with regard to the staff referred to by him as having absented themselves without permission, if such persons, or any of them, had sought permission and been refused it?
It is possible that some of them sought permission but the only information I have is that they withdrew their services. Whether they sought permission and were refused it and withdrew their services, or whether they simply withdrew their services, their pay would be disallowed. I take it the Deputy would agree with the need for maintenance of discipline in the public service?
Yes, I certainly would agree with the necessity for maintenance of discipline. But would the Minister agree that it is, to say the least of it, misleading for the Government to issue a public statement which conveyed to the general public, and indeed to the staff of the Minister's Department, that Government offices were closing on the occasion in question and that the Government were calling on the private sector to follow suit, and that in fact what happened was that persons employed in the Minister's Department who sought permission to take time off to attend the funeral were refused it?
Some civil servants may have read the announcement as carelessly as did the Deputy. If so, they may have been under a general misapprehension. Let me read out the text of the statement issued by the Government Information Services on behalf of the Department of the Taoiseach:
The Government have designated the day of the funeral, Tuesday, 2nd September, 1975, as a day of national mourning for the late Mr. de Valera. Civil servants in the Dublin offices——
Repeat—"in the Dublin offices"
——of Government Departments will be given time off on that day to enable them to pay their respects as the funeral cortège passes on its way to Glasnevin. It is hoped that other employers will give similar facilities to their staff.
"Similar facilities" would be, of course, also in Dublin because the funeral was in Dublin.
Are we to take it from what the Minister has just said that he is saying that civil servants who sought this permission, in Dublin, were given it?
Yes.
Is the Minister stating this categorically—that no civil servants in Dublin were so refused?
That is right.
The Minister, I think, will be getting further questions on that.
Question No. 43.
I may be, but let me give the information I have from my Department. That is, that the absences which occured and which had to be penalised took place at Athlone, Cork, Dundalk, Galway and Westport. Instructions in accordance with the circular letter I have read were issued to all Dublin branches and offices of the Department on the 1st September, 1975, and all head postmasters outside Dublin were informed by telegram on the same day that the arrangements made by the Government in connection with the funeral did not involve the closure of any offices, or the granting of time off to civil servants outside the Dublin city area. I think the whole matter is extremely clear and that my Department acted perfectly properly.
Are we to take it that when the Government refer to a day of national mourning, in effect they mean in Dublin?
This goes somewhat outside my competence as Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, but the funeral took place in Dublin and the Government's view was that national mouring would be properly indicated in the capital city by the closing of premises in the city through which the cortège was to proceed. It is clear that provincial centres are in a somewhat different category.
Are we to take it that if there is a day of national mourning it refers only to Dublin?
That has been already asked.
It has not been asked.
It has been asked.
Is it a fact that anybody outside the Pale cannot take part in a day of national mourning?
References to the Pale have no relevance at all because Dublin city was the area where State offices were closed. That procedure is quite proper, but in any case it is for me as Minister for Posts and Telegraphs only to say that my Department fully complied with the directive issued and dealt with the matter properly in all centres.
Is that not discrimination against civil servants in the rest of the country?
No. The circular was perfectly clear; the Government's policy was perfectly clear, and what was done was perfectly proper.
Is it not discrimination against the rest of the country?
What does a day of national mourning mean?
In a sense it is discrimination against the rest of the country that the capital happens to be Dublin, but Dublin is the capital and Dublin is where the funeral took place and Dublin is where the offices were closed. The Opposition are making a great fuss——
I have called the next question on a number of occasions.
(Interruptions.)
Is this not very disedifying? May he rest in peace.
We are talking about positive, deliberate disrespect.
I am very sorry that Deputy Lalor should have made that reflection and I believe the public will disapprove of the suggestion that the Government were deliberately disrespectful on the occasion of the funeral of ex-President de Valera.
They certainly disapprove of the Government's performance.
It is a most improper reflection.
I have made the statement.
It is on the record.
Yes, and I stand over it.