andMr. C. Murphy asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he will introduce a scheme for the subsidisation of winter feeding for breeding ewes.
9.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Sheep and Lamb Production.
8.
andMr. C. Murphy asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries whether the incomes of sheep producers in the west Wicklow area have kept pace with rising costs in the past three years.
10.
andMr. C. Murphy asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries the estimate, if any, of the fall in sheep numbers in County Wicklow during the past three years.
11.
andMr. C. Murphy asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he will provide assistance for the establishment of co-operative lamb-fattening stations in the mountain area of west Wicklow.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 to 11, inclusive, together.
A number of schemes designed to help the sheep industry are already in operation. These include the mountain lamb subsidy scheme, the hogget ewe subsidy scheme, the extension to the mountain lamb subsidy scheme and the export guarantee scheme for carcase mutton and lamb. Expenditure under these schemes in 1975 amounted to almost £3 million. In addition in the context of the handicapped areas scheme, I intend to introduce soon a special scheme for the provision of assistance for joint projects undertaken by groups of farmers for increasing fodder production in hill areas and for the improvement of hill grazing land farmed jointly.
Applications for assistance for the establishment of co-operative lamb-fattening stations from properly constituted co-operative societies will be open to consideration within the terms of the farm modernisation scheme. No separate information is available as to the relative trend of costs and incomes of sheep-owners in the west Wicklow area.
Sheep numbers in County Wicklow increased from 284,000 in 1972 to 288,000 in 1973 but declined slightly to 287,000 in 1974. The indications are that there may have been a further small decline in 1975 but detailed county statistics will not be available for some time.
In view of the Minister's statement that the sheep population and the income of sheep farmers are declining, would he not agree that the solution to the problem is for the Minister in the Council of Ministers to ask the Community to extend the common agricultural policy to sheep so as to give the sheep farmers a fixed income all the year round and not have this stop-go situation which means that when the French market closes we cannot sell sheep and the price of sheepmeat goes down?
The Deputy must be aware that I have been agitating for a common organisation of the market in sheepmeat for the past three years and that no later than the last meeting I complained that this thing was not being advanced in the way I had hoped and expected it would be. I got a definite undertaking that it would be an early item on the agenda at the March meeting, not at the February meeting because it is exclusively price-fixing.
Can the Minister tell the House now that he hopes that his efforts, or his agitation as he describes it, will bring about the situation where we would have a common agricultural policy for sheepmeat within the next six months?
I am always hopeful, but it needs only one member state to object to prevent us from having common organisation for the marketing of sheepmeat.
Surely the Minister will agree that sheep farming in the mountainous area of west Wicklow is very specialised and needs extra attention and subsidies and should be treated as a special entity. There is no way in which the sheepmen there can maintain their lambs; they must let them go when the prices are at their worst. Would he not think a special case could be made for a co-operative lamb fattening station at west Wicklow?
Could I appeal to Deputies to make their questions brief?
I have already said that, if it was a properly qualified coop and makes application, it could come within the scope of the modernisation scheme and get grants.
Would the Minister not accept that it is not enough to say somebody should make application, but that he should be able to put forward the terms of the scheme and have the scheme specially modified to suit the conditions?
No, I cannot do that. I cannot decide what can and cannot be given under the modernisation scheme.
This is leading to argument.
The scheme will have to be modified to suit the conditions of west Wicklow.
It is an EEC scheme and I cannot modify it at will.
Is the Minister saying this scheme is suitable as it is for sheep farming in west Wicklow?
I said in this House on many occasions that I am not satisfied with the modernisation scheme as it stands. I took no part in the formulation of the scheme. We are trying to have it amended and we must get agreement on that within the Commission.
Three years have elapsed and nothing has happened.
The Minister mentioned that the grant allocation has been increased this year. Could the Minister say when the previous increase was in the last few years?
There was an increase of £1 last year.
Arising out of the Minister's statement about the failure to have the common agricultural policy extended to cover sheep, would he confirm that in no single way were the interests of this country advanced during the presidency of the Minister for Foreign Affairs?
That is a separate matter.
This is not a matter for the Minister for Foreign Affairs; it is a matter for the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries.
He was president of the Council for six months.
Yes.
That is a separate matter.
It is really a matter for the Council of Agriculture Ministers.
The Minister was chairman of that.
Yes.
And he got nowhere.
I could not allow the Deputy to misrepresent the situation. It needs only the UK, France or any other member State to say: "No, we will not have any part of this", and there is power of veto.
The Government had the presidency for six months and the Minister for Foreign Affairs was running round the world settling everybody's problems but did nothing for this country.
The presidency does not deprive the other member states of the power of veto.
Would the Minister make an effort to convince the Government and the officials in Brussels that it is of vital importance to the sheep industry, particularly in Galway, to have a common agricultural policy for sheep?
The Government do not need any convincing, nor do I.
12.
asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries why lamb subsidy grants have not been paid to certain farmers in the Carlow area who qualified since the scheme was introduced.
Subsidy was not paid to some sheep-owners in the Carlow area under the mountain lamb subsidy scheme because they did not comply with the requirements of the scheme in regard to mountain grazing.
I should like to know what way the regulations have been changed because since the scheme was introduced by Deputy Haughey, when he was Minister for Agriculture, farmers who produced this type of lamb received this subsidy. Why have some farmers been refused this subsidy? Is the reason that the Department have not a penny, as the Minister said before?
My information is that these farmers did not receive this subsidy on all occasions. In 1974 they received it in error. What those farmers told the local official who was investigating this was accepted by that official but following investigations in 1975 it was shown beyond all doubt that they did not comply. I sent an official to investigate this and, following that investigation, I am satisfied that they did not qualify under the terms of the scheme. The subsidy scheme on mountain lamb was introduced in 1966 and under this scheme a subsidy is not payable unless the flock owner has grazing rights on mountain lands and has grazed all his lambs on such lands. Where appropriate, he is required to furnish a declaration and evidence to this effect. When the people concerned were asked for this evidence they could not produce it.
Due to the situation in the Mount Leinster-Blackstairs area it was very difficult for the Department, when the scheme was introduced, to define mountain rights and hill rights. As a result of that, in consultation with the committee of agriculture a certain area was laid down. The Minister informed me that the subsidy was paid in 1974 but I can assure him that the subsidy was also paid in 1975. Why the change?
I sent down an official who knows the area to carry out a special investigation and I am informed that after consultation with a member of the council, who is a former chairman of the Borris Ewe Breeders' Association, and also with the local agricultural adviser he made his recommendations to the effect that they did not qualify.
Is the Minister stating that the local CAO, and the chairman of the sheep breeders' association, agreed with the official that these people did not qualify?
I did not say the local CAO was involved; I said the local agricultural instructor was involved. I told the Deputy that after consultation with these people the official made his recommendation.
Who was the other person mentioned by the Minister?
A member of the council who is a former chairman of the Borris Ewe Breeders' Association. I have not told the Deputy what they said but I have told him what the official recommended on his return.