Vol. 288 No. 7
andMr. Moore asked the Minister for Local Government if he is aware of the public concern at the shortfall in moneys allocated by his Department to local authorities to complete and continue public water and sewerage schemes at present in progress and to meet existing commitments.
11.
andMr. Moore asked the Minister for Local Government the amount of money which has been allocated to local authorities for the commencement of new water and sewerage schemes and for new additions to existing schemes.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 and 11 together.
The capital allocations made to date in respect of expenditure this year on major public water and sewerage schemes in progress or recently completed were based on returns furnished by the local authorities showing the financial position in relation to these schemes at 21st December, 1975. In my opinion these allocations were reasonable and generally should suffice to meet commitments. If, in due course, the circumstances of any individual local authority raise a special problem, the matter can be considered further.
In the normal course, allocations for new major works are not made until relevant loans are approved. Having regard to the level of existing commitments on a very heavy programme of ongoing works, including some schemes of exceptional size, new loans for further major works for which capital has been allocated to date are those in the small schemes programme, for which the total allocation amounts to £608,000. I might add that the total capital provision for sanitary services programmes in 1976 is £19 million— £1.28 million more than last year and over 130 per cent more than in 1972-73.
Is the Minister aware that there is a serious shortfall in the moneys allocated to certain local authorities to enable them to meet existing commitments on water and sewerage schemes alone? Is he also aware that some local authorities have asked him to receive a deputation?
Yes, Kerry County Council have so indicated.
Is the Minister further aware that the increase of £1.82 million over last year's capital allocation for water and sewerage schemes is not sufficient to meet even inflation?
Yes, it is a relatively small increase when one considers the increase between 1972-73 and this year. As I told the House, the increase is 130 per cent over what it was when I took office just three years ago. Therefore, although we are not doing nearly as much as we should, we are doing the best we can.
Costs have gone up about 200 per cent.
I find it hard to accept the Minister's answer due to the fact that Dublin Corporation applied for £3.5 million for very necessary works and the Minister sanctioned only £1.75 million. That is a factual statement I am making——
It is not a supplementary question.
——and it is borne out by the figures in the capital programme. We therefore have to cut back on housing, water and sewerage schemes. We should be glad if the Minister would give us advice as to how we can do these necessary works with £1.75 million.
The Deputy is making a speech.
I am very glad the Deputy is asking for my advice in the matter, because Dublin Corporation got £1,750,000 for 1976 and Dublin County Council who, as the Deputy is aware, are connected in many ways in regard to water and sewerage schemes with Dublin Corporation, got £4,025,000, a total of £5,775,000 for the Dublin area. This represents over 30 per cent of the total allocation for sanitary services. If Deputy Moore wants my advice it is to consider that they should not look a gift horse in the mouth. They are doing very well and unless he believes that Dublin is Ireland and that they should get the whole lot he should be satisfied with what they are getting.
We had the usual parochial mind of the Minister. We applied for £3,500,000 and we have been allocated only £1.75 million. We have not got it yet.
We must proceed by way of question.
The Minister asked if I think Dublin is Ireland. I do not but I realise, and the Minister should realise, that over one third of the people live in the Dublin area. That is the big difference. The Minister is just bluffing. We will be cutting back on housing and drainage from now on.
Might I point out to Deputy Moore that the amount which the two Dublins, county and city, got this year is only £1½ million less than his Government gave to the whole country three years ago?
Order.
May I take the next lecture? Has a request been received by the Minister from Cork County Council to receive a deputation, when was the request made to him, when does he intend meeting the deputation and is he aware of a very serious cash crisis situation which exists in County Cork?
May I make a point of order?
On a point of order, may I point out that neither Questions Nos. 10 nor 11 contain any reference to Cork County Council.
Obviously I have touched the Minister's corn.
If the Deputy puts down a question he will receive an answer.
Questions Nos. 10 and 11 have already referred to Kerry County Council, Dublin Corporation and Dublin County Council. It appears that Cork is an area on its own because the Minister does not refer to Cork. I have asked him——
We have not time for repetition at Question Time.
I will not repeat. I will continue with the question I have been asking the Minister. Is he aware that a serious cash crisis has already arisen in Cork? Is he further aware that, despite the approval last year of a scheme by his Department and although certain expenditures have been incurred on the scheme, that the contract cannot now be signed because of a fear by Cork County Council that his Department will fail to honour their commitments as they have been doing over the past six or eight months?
The only comment I can make in reply to Deputy Fitzgerald is that the reason I replied to Deputy O'Leary about Kerry and to Deputy Moore about Dublin was because I expected they would come up with the questions they did and I had adequate replies for them. I was not aware that Deputy Fitzgerald would come in here or I would have had his reply. If he puts down a question I will be only too glad to give him any information he wants.
Is the Minister aware——
May I ask for brevity, please?
Is the Minister not aware that Questions Nos. 10 and 11 cover his Department and if he has not his homework done in relation to Cork, could it be possible that the Minister is embarrassed about the situation that he has allowed to arise in Cork? Would he indicate, in reply to my first question regarding the deputation, if he has received a request for a deputation, when he received it and when he intends meeting that deputation? Surely on questions like that he should be able to give me a reply?
Those are rather specific questions.
All the information I can give the Deputy as far as Cork South County Council are concerned is that they got £4 million this year and that Cork North got £120,000 this year as a first instalment. This is because there was a big backlog. Deputy Fitzgerald does not seem to understand that water and sewerage schemes nearly did not exist when the previous Government were there. They now expect us in three years to remedy all they did not do for the previous 16 years. Would the Deputies catch themselves on?
Would the Minister——
I am passing on to another question. The Deputy may ask a brief supplementary.
Would the Minister in his lecture explain to me what the £4 million he is talking about refers to? Does it refer to 1975 or 1976? If it refers to 1976, is he aware that already his Department have committed themselves to Cork County Council to the tune of £5.2 million? Who will make up the shortfall?
I suggest that Deputy Fitzgerald might wait and see what happens. What has happened now is that we have given real money to the local authorities in the beginning of the year. We did not do, as our predecessors did, wait until half way through, give them a small amount and tell them to hope that they might get something later on. They have got the money now.
Question No. 12.
The Minister does not know what he is talking about.
Order. Question No. 12.
If the Minister is allowed make a political speech are we not allowed to ask questions at Question Time?
Order. Question No. 12.
12.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he has received the results of tests carried out on the Templemartin/Cahercrin group water scheme, County Galway; and when the scheme will go ahead.
The results of the further yield and quality tests on samples of water from the proposed source for this scheme have not yet been received in my Department.
A copy of the design drawings and design data have been sent to Galway County Council for examination and approval.
It is not possible at this stage to indicate when the scheme will be in a position to go ahead.
13.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he has received the result of tests carried out on the Ballymacward/Castleblakeney group water scheme, County Galway; and when the scheme will go ahead.
The results of the latest quality tests have not yet been received by my Department. When these results are available, it will be possible to assess the likely overall cost of the proposed extensions and the group's financial capacity to proceed with the work involved.
What effort has the Minister made to hurry up the extensions to this scheme which have been awaited for a considerable time?
I am afraid it is not the function of the Department to hurry up the scheme. This must come from the group and the county council. I cannot do any more than I have done. I asked for information which I passed on to Deputy Kitt.
When did the Minister ask for the tests?
Very recently.
Since the question was put down?
I am not in the habit of doing things like that. The date was the 17th November, 1975.
Has nothing been done since the 17th November, 1975?
I suggest that Deputy Kitt might talk to the local people because they are the people who are holding up the scheme at the present time.
Was it a quality or a quantity test the Minister asked for?
A quality test.
Is this not an extension of the scheme that is there, so how does quality arise?
Quality tests were asked for and they have not yet been received.
Question No. 14.
I would like to follow that up and I am sure Deputy Kitt would also. Surely if that scheme is in operation it is a question of quantity?
I am sorry, this is leading to argument. Question No. 14.
Would the Minister not agree that it is a question of money?
No. There is a new source proposed by the group scheme from a well near Annagh Bridge. Perhaps the Deputies might discuss the matter with the local people and they would find out what the information is and they would not be holding up the time of the House asking stupid questions.
Question No. 14.
The Minister did not mention about the new source until now.
The Deputy should know that, since he is the man representing the people involved.
I did not. I asked for information on it.
Is the Minister aware——
I have called the next question. Question No. 14.
It is a very important question.
The Chair is giving a lot af latitude and Deputies persist in imposing on the Chair.
This is a final supplementary. Is the Minister aware that a trial hole has been bored at this proposed source to find a natural filter, as I understand? Is it not really a question of money not being available for this scheme?
The Deputy has already asked that question.
I am afraid Deputy Kitt is trying to get around to what Deputy Lalor would object to very strongly, a political angle to this matter. In fact, the situation is that in relation to the well near Annagh Bridge, the results of which we got on the 17th November, 1975, the report showed that filtration would be necessary to ensure that the water would be potable and that this would be costly and difficult to maintain. Therefore, there is a further check to be made and the question of money does not arise at this stage.
