asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs why a request by Comhaltas Ceolteóirí Éireann for a grant to enable them to participate in bicentennial celebrations in the United States of America was not allowed by the Cultural Relations Committee.
11.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann.
10.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will consider the request of Comhaltas Ceolteoirí Éireann for a grant from the Cultural Relations Committee for a visit to the United States of America to participate in the bicentennial celebrations.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 and 11 together.
Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann applied for financial support from the Grant-in-Aid for Cultural Relations, which is administered by my Department, towards the cost of three tours in the United States in 1975 and 1976. The regulations governing the Grant-in-Aid provide that no payments can be made from it save in accordance with schemes recommended to the Minister for Foreign Affairs by the Advisory Committee on Cultural Relations. The committee did not recommend the payment of a grant and I had therefore no function in the matter. My function arises only in relation to positive recommendations made by the committee, in which cases I am called upon to approve, reject or modify the recommendations for expenditure from the Grant-in-Aid.
Might I ask the Minister if he does not agree that Irish music and songs form part of our culture? Or, would he agree with his fellow traveller, the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, who described them as bog oak culture——
I did nothing of the sort; I described certain categories——
——on a radio programme three years ago?
Let us not engage in argument. Order.
I listened to him. I am a member of Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann. I play Irish music. Indeed, if playing Irish music is bog oak culture, I am delighted that the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs called us bog oak culturists.
Lest the House be in doubt about my attitude, I regard Irish music and songs and the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs as part of Irish culture.
I would like to stress the attitude——
(Interruptions.)
We must proceed by way of supplementary question.
Is the Minister aware that the Queen of England knighted a group called The Beatles for their cultural, ambassadorial work once when they visited America? Is the Minister aware that more people attend functions of Irish music in America than ever attended concerts by The Beatles?
I will pass on the Deputy's suggestion of the introduction of knighthood here. More relevantly perhaps, Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann in the present year are receiving £52,000 from Roinn na Gaeltachta and £30,000 from Bord Fáilte towards musical entertainment programmes in Ireland. Also £1,200 was made available by Bord Fáilte towards US tours of Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann in October, 1975, and March, 1976. These may well have been factors influencing the Cultural Relations Committee in their decision. The Cultural Relations Committee's total resources are this year £81,000, £30,000 earmarked for bicentennial projects, one of which includes an Irish folklore demonstration in the Smithsonian Institute in America. The remaining £51,000 has to be used for a very wide variety of purposes in many parts of the world. A body in receipt already of £83,200 from public funds, or almost twice as much as the total amount available to the Cultural Relations Committee for activities other than bicentennial activities, may very well feel it has to use its funds in a manner that precludes additional financing of a body which is already, relatively speaking, well endowed by the Irish Exchequer.
Would the Minister agree then that we should not denigrate our Irish music and song and put them into a lower category than the theatre or by other cultural aspect?
Of course, the Cultural Relations Committee have given grants on a number of occasions. In regard to the various groups involved in this area of work on Irish music and song this has been a feature of the advice given to successive Ministers by the Cultural Relations Committee.
Is the Minister aware that the music of the Star Spangled Banner, the American National Anthem, was composed by Carolan, our Irish bard? That is news to the Minister.
The Minister seemed to me to confine his replies to Deputy Loughnane to the question of making funds available to the Cultural Relations Committee. In view of the national importance of Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann, particularly in the context of these bicentenary celebrations, are there any other funds available to the Minister in his Department which could be used for this purpose?
No. There are no funds other than this particular fund which is being expended and this year, as I say, a large proportion is being directed to the bicentenary. If I might just reply to Deputy Loughnane's last question, my hesitation in expressing any view on the authorship of any national anthem derives from a vague recollection that the last member of my family who expressed a view as to the authorship of a national anthem was subjected to a libel action.
Is the situation then that any contacts between Ireland and the United States on this very important occasion can only be funded through the normal Vote of the Cultural Relations Committee? Has no special fund been set aside to promote contacts of a cultural nature?
On the contrary, as I mentioned in my reply—perhaps I spoke too quickly—the Government have added to the normal vote of £52,000 an extra £30,000 this year with a view to helping to finance or part finance, Irish activities in relation to the United States Bicentenary. Other Irish agencies also assist in this area including, as I mentioned, Bord Fáilte.
Is it a fact that the total amount of funds available for this purpose is the Vote for the Cultural Relations Committee in the Minister's Department?
In my Department of course, yes. The funds available for the promotion of cultural activities in my Department are these funds which this year consist of £52,000, representing a normal increased figure in current money terms on last year, plus a special £30,000. But other Departments or other agencies have also assisted towards activities in relation to the bicentenary.
I am not concerned with tourism or anything of that nature, but surely the Minister would agree that it would be possible for him, if he had a wish to do so, to provide funds for Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann for this purpose under different subheads in his Department's Vote.
No.
One that comes immediately to mind is the subhead for International Co-operation. If the Minister were anxious to help Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann I am sure he could find a subhead in his Department's Vote to promote cultural contacts apart from the subhead for the Cultural Relations Committee.
The International Co-operation subhead is for a totally different purpose and, without having my brief on the point, I would not attempt to use it for any other purpose. Such a step would be regarded with grave disfavour by the Comptroller and Auditor-General.
We have spent quite a long time on this question.
There has been quite a song and dance about it.
The Minister is getting annoyed.
No. He is merely attempting a wry form of humour.
It did not work obviously.
Does the Minister agree that, if he has not funds available in his Department for this purpose, it would be desirable to provide funds for this purpose and would he not be prepared even at this late stage sympathetically to examine the other subheads to see if funds could be made available and would he not confine his looking at this matter to the cultural aspect? His Department exists for other purposes than promoting cultural relations.
That is why funds for other such purposes cannot be diverted to cultural purposes and there are no other subheads under which I could properly provide money for what the Deputy has in mind. Were there other funds at my disposal, however, I would have some hesitation in using them in these particular circumstances when the expert advice given to me is that funds should be used in other ways and when the body concerned is receiving £83,200 from the Irish Exchequer and other sources this year.