asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries the progress made towards a beef classification scheme.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Beef Classification Scheme.
16.
The technical specifications for a possible beef classification scheme have now been finalised. These incorporate certain modifications to the original specifications in the light of the experience gained in classifying over a million carcases under the beef intervention arrangements.
In contacts with the interests concerned no final agreement was reached on certain more general aspects, especially on the financing of the scheme, and these aspects are still under consideration.
Is the Minister satisfied that farmers sending their cattle to factories are being fairly treated by those meat factories in regard to classification of carcases for intervention?
The position is that there is not agreement at the moment with the Irish Fresh Meat Exporters' Society to operate a scheme on a certain basis. For that reason, as I indicated in the last sentence of my original reply, there are aspects which are still under consideration. In the meantime, the Minister is taking every step he can to see to it that there is proper classification. It is again, a matter where there are two sides to this and agreement must be reached.
In the light of the fact that this has been going on now for three or four years, will the Minister not agree that it is time for mandatory action to be taken regarding classification of producers' cattle in factories? There is a widespread feeling that there is malpractice in this area and that cattle which eventually make prime quality in factories are paid for at the second-class rate.
Technical specifications for a scheme were drawn up in February, 1972, by a technical study group set up to advise in the matter. These criteria were operated on a trial basis at a meat factory over a period of 12 months. When purchase of beef under the EEC intervention system commenced, the technical specifications were useful for intervention purposes. In the light of experience gained, certain modifications were introduced and specifications have now been finalised. The main points at issue in regard to the proposed beef classification scheme were (a) who would operate the scheme and (b) who would pay the cost.
In September, 1973, the Department wrote to Córas Beostoic agus Feola suggesting that the scheme should be introduced on the basis that trained staff employed by the individual beef exporters would carry out the actual classification. A limited number of qualified Córas Beostoic agus Feola personnel would keep a general check on the classification standards and that this Department would co-operate in the training of staff and demonstration of educational work related to the scheme.
In October, 1973, the Irish Freshmeat Exporters' Society stated that under no circumstances would they agree to operate a scheme on this basis, nor would they agree to any involvement at Córas Beostoic agus Feola in the operation and supervision of the scheme. The society recently indicated that they favoured the introduction of a beef classification scheme, but only if it were to be operated by the Department. The proposed scheme was discussed separately with the IFA and the ICMSA. Both organisations agreed in principle with the proposed scheme and appeared to accept as reasonable that the cost would be met by the Department and producers on a pound for pound basis. Both indicated they would prefer a scheme under Department supervision. It has been estimated that up to 30 classifiers would be required supported by about 40 to 45 factory personnel attending to the more mechanical procedures. In addition, there would be five or six supervisors. Classifiers and supervisors would be recruited for factory and departmental staff who have considerable experience of meat factories, preferably beef plants. That is the present state of play. The desire is to get agreement and a beef classification scheme.
Does the Minister not agree that the refusal of the Freshmeat Exporters' Society to accept this scheme, except under conditions which they would dictate, is rather high-handed? Is it not time for the Minister to tell them the conditions he will introduce mandatorily?
Before the Minister reaches that stage, he is endeavouring to reach agreement and that will be the best in the end for everybody.
Would the Minister agree that at present there is no classification and that each factory varies in their classification of animals suitable for intervention?
As a general statement, I would not agree.
What are present classification standards?
I suggest you go to a factory and find out.
This is a very serious matter. If the Minister thinks the farming community will tolerate that type of answer——
We cannot proceed along those lines.
I do not accept that there is general dishonesty in the trade. At the moment the Minister is endeavouring to reach agreement with the interests concerned, both the producers and processors of beef, to get a classification scheme. I am of the opinion that it would be better for the Minister to get agreement on such a scheme and to have it operated in friendliness than to have it by mandatory action. If that is possible, it should be done that way.
In his reply, the Minister stated that negotiations have been going on since 1972, over four years and nothing has yet been done to the detriment of the Irish farmer.
The Deputy's insisttence on four years would be an over-simplification because there was a period during that four years when the great volume of beef went into intervention. In that situation, classification was adhered to.