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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 30 Jun 1976

Vol. 291 No. 14

Health Services (Limited Eligibility) Regulations, 1976: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann approves the following Regulations in draft:—

Health Services (Limited Eligibility) Regulations, 1976,

a copy of which Regulations in draft form was laid before Dáil Éireann on the 22nd day of April, 1976.

The effect of these regulations will be to increase the income limit for limited eligibility health services from £1,600 to £3,000 in the case of non-insured persons, other than farmers.

In addition, I intend to make regulations this week to increase the present income limit of £2,250 to £3,000 per annum in the case of insured, non-manual workers.

As I explained in my Estimates speech, the present income limits for limited eligibility health services require to be up-dated in line with increases in incomes generally in the economy. The present limit of £1,600 was fixed in September, 1971, and adjusting it in line with national wage agreement increases since that date produces a comparable figure today of £3,000.

Similarly, up-dating the limit of £2,250, which was fixed in April, 1974, in line with national wage agreement adjustments provides a present-day figure of approximately £3,000.

My objective in introducing these new limits is to ensure that the same proportion of the population as heretofore retain entitlement to free hospital care and the other services involved in the limited eligibility category. The regulations are not designed to increase the percentage of the population covered.

Unless new income limits at £3,000 per annum are set, an estimated 85,000 people, who are now eligible for these services, will become ineligible by the end of this year. We cannot, of course, allow this to happen because it would mean a real reduction in our present standards of entitlement to health services.

In the case of female employees, an estimated 5,000 will become ineligible by 5th July unless the new limit of £3,000 per annum is introduced. An estimated 30,000 male, non-manual employees, together with some 40,000 dependants will become ineligible by January next, while 5,000 non-insured persons with some 5,000 dependants will become ineligible during the course of 1976, unless the new limits are introduced.

Officials of my Department have had a number of discussions with both medical organisations and have explained to them the basis of the proposed new limits. As a result of these discussions, the organisations are not objecting to the new limits.

Both organisations have requested that a new system for identifying eligible patients at the point of health care delivery be introduced in order to ensure that eligible patients only are treated free of charge. The chief executive officers of health boards and myself have agreed to this request and a more efficient system of identification is being worked out at present.

Finally, I would point out that these regulations will have the effect of doing away with the present anomaly whereby there are different limits for insured non-manual employees and for non-insured persons. In future the limit of £3,000 per annum will apply to both groups.

The manner in which the Dáil is being asked to agree to this amendment of the health regulations to enable income limits to be increased reflects in miniature the haphazard and erratic approach of this Government to the entire administration of our health services. This proposal has followed the same uncertain course as all the others which have been brought forward over the last few years by the Minister for Health. First of all, we have the bold vote-catching announcement; then follows a long period of uncertainty and confusion during which it becomes abundantly clear that the announcement was made without consultation, without any real assessment of the cost or the implications of what is involved, and without any regard to the possibilities of the effective operation of the proposal. Finally, a deadline approaches. There are frantic discussions, appeals, compromises, and in the end the Dáil is asked to agree to the proposal on an emergency basis, because otherwise the public at large or some section of the public will suffer.

This proposal we are dealing with here today is a classic case of the Coalition on/off/on again approach to administration. The debate on the Health Estimate and on this proposal has been left in a state of suspension now for some considerable time, and we are today, on the eve of the adjournment of the Dáil for the summer recess, asked to rush this proposal through, because if we do not some 5,000 people will be deprived of these limited eligibility benefits on 5th July next. Of course we on this side of the House do not want to see 5,000 persons deprived of these benefits, benefits to which they have up to now been entitled. Therefore we are going to let this motion by the Minister for Health go through unopposed. But I want to place on record our view that this is not the right way to deal with this important, complicated aspect of our health services.

The Minister has at last today in his brief introductory speech given us some estimate of the numbers involved, and he states that there will not, in fact, be any increase in the total proportion of the population covered for these limited eligibility benefits, that all this measure is supposed to do is to keep the same sections of the population covered as have been covered up to now. I believe that proportion is somewhere in the region of 85 per cent of the population, although the Minister did not give that precise statistic in his speech.

I do not want to encroach on the already very limited amount of time which is available to the House to deal with the business that must be disposed of before the summer recess, but there are some points which I feel I must make, however briefly. First, I want to suggest that we in the House, both the Government and the Opposition, regard this measure as no more than an interim, ad hoc emergency adjustment and that we decide to return to this difficult situation later on in the year with a view to straightening it out permanently. I believe the overall aim should be realistically to relate the services which can be provided in our hospitals to those in need of them, to try to assess the cost and what sections of our population the hospitals can cope with and for whom we can afford as a community to provide these services free of charge. This is a concrete question that we must tease out, and decide what exactly is possible in regard to making these limited eligibility services free of charge to certain sections of the population and how that can be implemented.

Secondly, and related to that, is the need to eliminate the anomalies that still exist. The Minister very blandly at the end of his remarks claimed that these regulations will have the effect of doing away with the present anomaly whereby there are different limits for insured non-manual employees and for non-insured persons. In future the limit of £3,000 per annum will apply to both groups and I accept that. But there will still be anomalies and of course the principal one is the one which is causing a great deal of anger and frustration among the people concerned, that is, that non-manual workers are still being discriminated against in relation to their manual colleagues. That is something we must examine with a view to bringing some standard into operation. I do not think anybody can justify a situation where a manual worker with an income of £10,000 a year is entitled to these services free of charge, whereas his colleagues who happens to be in a non-manual type of employment is denied free access to these services if his income is over £3,000 a year. There is also the fact that this anomaly gives rise to artificial distinctions between different types of employment. For instance, an electrician has been held to be a manual employee, whereas a chief electrician has been held not to be and so on. This distinction between manual and non-manual employees is quite artificial.

Thirdly, I want to urge the Minister to resolve his difficulties with the consultants. That is an urgent need now. The willing and whole-hearted co-operation of those consultants and their tradition of dedicated service is absolutely vital to the structure of our health services. The Minister should harness that. He should set out to create the right atmosphere and the climate of goodwill. He should recognise that the services these consultants provide is not a routine, mechanical nine to five sort of service. It involves a very special degree of dedication on their part and very special qualities.

The Minister should now make every effort to resolve any difficulties which still remain in this area. One gathers from what he said here today and from newspaper reports that some progress is being made. He should, in the interests of the general administration of the health services, bring the difficulties which he has with this profession to an end. Those health regulations are one aspect of the administration of the health services which could advantageously be referred to an all-party committee of the House for consideration. The various complications which exist in the situation are the sort that could be properly teased out in a co-operative spirit by all the parties in the House coming together in an all-party committee. We have had general suggestions about the establishment of an all-party committee. This is one aspect of the health services which should be brought before such a committee if and when it is established.

Finally, I want to refer very briefly to a technical aspect of these regulations. I want to make it clear that I do not expect a reply from the Minister on the point I am going to raise, but I would like him to have it examined by his departmental advisers because it is of some importance. I refer to Article 6, paragraph (3), of the Health Services Regulations, 1971, which provides as follows:

The class of persons entitled to avail themselves of services under section 52 or section 56 (2) of the Act shall not include persons who require treatment for injuries received in a road traffic accident except where it is established to the satisfaction of the chief executive officer of the health board that the applicant for such services has not received or is not entitled to receive damages, or compensation in the nature of damages, from another person in respect of the injuries.

On the face of it that seems a reasonable sort of proposal, but I want to draw the Minister's attention to the fact that in cases where there is contributory negligence it can work very unsatisfactorily.

That particular article envisages a situation where damages are awarded in toto but under the present legislation it is possible that a plaintiff, particularly an infant plaintiff, can have the amount of damages to which he is entitled reduced because of contributory negligence. I believe in those circumstances the Bill which the health authority present should similarly be mitigated. It is a technical aspect of these regulations which is causing some difficulty and some hardship in practice. I do not expect the Minister to give me any answer to this now. I ask that it be looked at and perhaps some proposal put forward to deal with the difficulties which arise.

They arise out of a situation where the health authority have a bill for hospital and other medical services which would be perfectly all right if the plaintiff were awarded the full amount of compensation to which he is entitled. Under the present legislation those damages and compensation can be mitigated to the extent that there is contributory negligence. That should have a bearing on the bill which the health authority present.

I do not want to delay the House because we have a very busy day today and we are very pressed for time. These are some comments I wanted to make in regard to this motion, but having said that, this side of the House are prepared to agree to the motion.

First of all, in case it might be forgotten, I certainly will look into the point the Deputy made with regard to road accidents and financial liability for them. I am afraid I could not make a long comment on it now, but I will promise to do so as soon as I can.

The Deputy complained about the manner of the introduction of this particular regulation. I do not know if he has forgotten but I announced in the Dáil in April that the regulation was to be introduced. There was no confusion. There were no frantic discussions. As far as I am concerned there was no intention to rush into something without consultation. As far as the medical organisations were concerned they were informed of this change. The Medical Association and the Medical Union did not object to the increases. Therefore, as far as I am concerned, after notifying the public and consulting with the medical organisations, I was firmly bound to the introduction of this change which, as I explained, merely retains eligibility for a certain number of the population, 85,000 to be exact. All this information was included in the speech I made on the Estimate some time ago.

There is a possibility that Members of the House did not fully realise that the regulation was being discussed in conjunction with the Estimate. As far as that is concerned the reason for the introduction of the regulation was explained and in respect of the other regulations which I propose to make this week, and which do not necessarily need Dáil approval, the intention was to retain the status quo. I know there are some sections of the Press which try to create the idea that there is constant conflict between the medical professions and me, and conflict as far as the consultants in particular are concerned. There may have been a certain amount of misinformation about certain issues that there are between me and my Department and some of the medical organisations, but they have nothing and never had anything at all to do with the raising of the limits for the purpose of eligibility.

There was from one of the organisations a suggestion that they might not implement in full the regulations which I trust will be passed in the next few days, but they were concerned with other things about which consultations are now in progress. They are concerned, for example, with the filling of consultant vacancies, and I think a reasonable conclusion has come in respect of that. They are concerned about the terms and conditions and the appointment of consultants. They are concerned about and have discussed with my officials the common method of selecting consultants. They are also concerned with the integration of certain private consultants into the health service. They are also concerned, as the Deputy has mentioned, about the definition of a manual worker and a non-manual worker. That I certainly will have to give consideration to, because I see certain anomalies in respect of the descriptions that are given to workers who have different functions.

One of the things that was the concern of my Department and of the two organisations concerned was the identification of persons with limited eligibility. It is right that this should be done, that there should be proper identification and that the people who are identified as being eligible for the services will get these services and those who are not will not get them. We cannot afford to apply this regulation in a haphazard way.

There was also a question raised, which again has nothing at all to do with the regulations I am determined to put through, about the provision of support facilities, both from inside the hospital and as far as the hospital consultants are concerned. In any case these what appear to be differences between the medical profession and the Minister for Health are not unusual. My predecessor had quite a long struggle over very many years in order to have implemented the choice of doctor or GMS scheme as we now know it. The figures I have given I gave some months ago as to those who would be affected by this regulation. As I said, the purpose of these regulations is to ensure that they will not lose their entitlement by reason of the fact that their salaries or wages increased in the meantime. I also did say in the Estimate speech that there are about 50 to 55 per cent of the population——

How much?

——50 to 55 per cent of the population affected for limited eligibility. I gave all these details in the Estimate, but the Deputy was probably more concerned about the Estimate rather than the regulations at that time.

There was reference by many of those who spoke in the last debate on the Estimates and on this regulations with regard to the establishment of an all-party committee. This I have undertaken to do, but I could not say at present, nor, frankly, would I know what would be the best composition for it. I would readily say as well that I will see a big input from the Members of the Dáil and possibly of the Seanad. Whether it would be a good thing just to have Members of the Oireachtas on that committee or not I do not know, because there is a certain amount of information that of necessity must come from the medical organisations, and, of course, from my own Department as well. It is a pity that the debate was not concluded, even though there was a fair amount of time given to it. If I had heard all the various opinions that I know would have been expressed in the House we possibly would have been able to come to a positive decision as to what the composition would be. I make this commitment again here today, that as far as the establishment of an all-party committee is concerned I propose to put a submission before the Government and hope to have this committee working as quickly as possible.

There were various criticisms about the administration of the health services and as to whether or not the health boards themselves were a success or whether we should revert to the old county system. My view is that we should not revert to the county system but if there are improvements to be made these improvements could and should be made in the health boards themselves.

There are also various suggestions as to how economics could be effected. Of course, with some allegations—I do not say unfounded in many respects—allegations of waste and allegations to the effect that many economics could be made, the Dáil Committee will have an opportunity to discuss these things. I know many Members of the Dáil are also members of the health boards. In any case, the input of all these people would give us the present position and possibly make recommendations for the future. When the health boards were established it was envisaged, and I think promised by my late predecessor, that after five years a review should be undertaken. I believe that too, and therefore the establishment of an all-party committee would be one of the submissions I would put to the Government. An all-party committee with outsiders is something I would like to think about before I make that submission.

I am grateful to Deputy Haughey for his support of this measure. As I have said, it merely keeps those who are at present eligible for these services in eligibility for a period of two to two-and-a-half years, if not sooner when, of course, regulations may have to be introduced in order to up the maximum limits for these services to which these people are entitled at present.

Question put and agreed to.
Business suspended at 2.10 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.
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