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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 2 Dec 1976

Vol. 294 No. 9

Vote 50: Health (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That a supplementary sum not exceeding £10 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1976, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Health (including Oifig an Ard-Chláraitheora), and certain services administered by that Office, including grants to Health Boards, miscellaneous grants and certain grants-in-aid.
—(Minister for Health.)

Before Question Time, I was dealing with our aims in promoting a good health system. Perhaps I was inclined to harp back to the 1970s when this House implemented the Health Act and to dwell on the then aims of the health system. We are falling short of our targets in regard to the general medical services scheme and we are falling far short on the hospitalisation end. Any scheme dealing with health must visualise for the future a good hospital service.

Regrettably, for a long time past we have been talking of regional hospitals which we had hoped it would have been possible to establish in each health board area. Not merely that but we had hoped that such hospitals would be backed up by a proper information service and by personnel from the faculties in universities. Furthermore, we had hoped that our medical school would be updated and a better training system established. We hoped that more young doctors would remain here and elect to work in their own country. These were all targets and the shots we are firing now are falling far short of those targets.

In regard to the general medical services, it looks as if the unbridled horse of inflation is seeing to it that we will not be able to accomplish the aims which we set out to achieve in 1970. If we continue on present trends and if expenditure on the health services is going to outrun the rate of inflation, we will not be able to accomplish them within the next ten years. I mentioned these matters to try to gain some perspective of the vast amount of work yet to be done in the Department of Health. Due to the present-day trends, there is no hope of achieving the hospital programme we set out to achieve. We have to settle for a lower target in the health services. Our aim was to have at least a 300 bed surgical hospital for each health board area.

In my health board area we find ourselves being forced back to the position whereby we have to amend our targets and settle for less. We find ourselves in the position of reconstructing units which are there already and of adding extensions to them in order to try to update them and to bring them into more accord with present day medical demands. It is a pity that we should have to amend our aims. It denotes that we are not going to achieve the high level of hospitalisation or hospital services that we had hoped to achieve in the 1970s. I dwell on this part of the scheme because hospitalisation calls for about 80 per cent of the total expenditure on health and demands the largest share of the Health Estimate. If we have to settle this year for the same terms obtained last year on the general end of the scheme it indicates that we are not going to make any progress on the hospitalisation side. It is a sombre picture not calculated to enthuse one with the aims we had even six years ago. We now find that we cannot make further progress either on the GMS side of the scheme or on the hospitalisation end. Let us make up our minds to co-ordinate our plans and if we have to settle for less, we should set aside the funds at the start of the year which will ensure that at least we shall be able to build one or two hospitals in some health board areas, or if we are not able to do that, to extend and update some of the units which are already there.

If we in the House want to make a contribution and if we want to provide leadership for the community, we must be seen to be doing this unless we intend to become irrelevant. We will become irrelevant if, having made our estimates at the beginning of the year, we have to come back to the House looking for large Supplementary Estimates. Unless we can check inflation we shall continue to go down hill. It is not enough for the House to be satisfied with last year's performance. Whilst in the past we have had a relatively low growth of population, we know that we now have the highest birth rate in the Community although we are the smallest unit in it. If this continues, our population will have crossed the divide and will have started to grow rather than reduce as in the past. Hopefully the rural population will increase and there will be an end to the trend of drifting from rural parts to the urban areas. People put more emphasis now on the quality of life but this factor is taken in conjunction with the standard of living. In the past people found it necessary to emigrate and this was responsible to a large extent for the decline in the population in rural Ireland.

Each generation has its own difficulties and improved standards of living do not necessarily bring the contentment that people hope for. The greatest problems of our time relate to the absence of a sense of respect and to the trend towards violence in the community. Contentment is closely related to health so one might well ask what we are doing in the context of the health services to make our community more content. The maturity of our citizens is an important factor in all this and the degree of maturity that we attain depends on the progress we make in relation to the operations of the various Departments of State. We must ensure that we get the best returns possible for money spent but I submit that at present the results we are getting are not the best possible.

There are many ways in which we could effect savings in the Department of Health but the one area that springs to mind first in this regard is that of the prescribing of drugs. The extent to which our bill for drugs has increased is a scandal. The best doctors that I have met would not prescribe drugs unless it was absolutely imperative to have recourse to them. The general practitioner to day is over-prescribing. Since the health scheme was implemented a few years ago there would not appear to be the same control in this area as there had been previously. If we wish to be realistic in our approach to curbing the use of drugs we must take positive steps to achieve control and this is the place where those steps must be taken in the first place. We should legislate for a rigid control in the field of the dispensing of drugs and, if necessary, provide for strict disciplinary action in respect of those who are regarded as over-dispensing. In regard to effecting savings there are many other subheads I could mention but suffice it for the moment to concentrate on the area of drug prescribing.

Ours is a small country but if the present birth rate trend continues we can expect a greatly increased population and this would necessitate a rigid examination of expenditure under every subhead that comes before us. However, the experts tell us that for some time our high dependency rate will continue. It is regrettable that we have such a high rate of dependency, the highest in Europe, perhaps. In the past we ascribed this situation to a high degree of emigration which left an imbalance in population make-up because those who emigrated were the able bodied while those who stayed at home were the older age groups and the very young. However, that trend is being reversed and in about ten years' time there should be no question of any such imbalance. In arriving at these views I am applying the rule of thumb, as the late President Roosevelt would have said, but I am convinced that an examination of present trends would confirm my opinion.

As Members of this Parliament it is our responsibility to suggest ways and means of effecting savings especially when money is scarce, instead of sanctioning expenditures for some Departments to a degree where the moneys become totally irrelevant.

To return for a moment to the question of drugs, I wonder if steps could be taken here similar to those taken in England. I am not sure how the situation in England is working out in practice but it was designed rigidly to control the movement of drugs. It is not very long ago since serious consequences could have arisen as a result of the use of a drug which was being used in hospitals and which also was being prescribed by vets. The drug in question was as a specific against typhoid fever and was used only sparingly in our hospitals. It was also used by veterinary surgeons. Now it would have been all right were it only used by veterinary surgeons but it was available to farmers and, that being so, there could have been very serious consequences were it not for the fact that this freedom of use was detected and the drug was quite rightly brought under rigid control. I make the point in relation to one drug. How many other dangerous drugs are available without control?

I do not want to outstay my welcome. I have made a number of points and I have tried to summarise the position in regard to the general medical services and hospitalisation. We have on record all the information we need about hospitalisation. In view of our income and the way we spend it, in view of the fact that the Department of Health is an intensive labour unit, in view of the fact that we have an increasing birth rate and an increasing demand for better hospitalisation and so on, it would be well to have another look at our plans for health over the next decade and, if necessary, adjust those plans in line with our income. We should temper the wind to the shorn lamb. It does not make for good management here or in the Department to make Estimates at the beginning of the year and then find we are short on our targets and unable to meet our commitments. That means coming back again for more money. We should find ways and means whereby we could arrive at a more accurate estimate within which to work. I suppose that would be the ideal. For a number of years now we have been coming back regularly to discuss Supplementary Estimates. Our objective should be directed towards saving and towards attempting to curb the erosion of our money so that it will do better work and go further. If the House could give a lead in this direction we would be taking a substantial step forward in bringing about a balance and providing more up-to-date hospitalisation and better general health services.

It is difficult to make a proper assessment of our health services and what is happening in the structure of those services. It is difficult to make a worth-while contribution to this debate other than pinpointing the anomalies that exist in certain areas of our health services. In the last few years there have been adverse changes especially where medical cards are concerned. Thousands of medical cards have been withdrawn from people who are really entitled to them. There was a time some years ago when borderline cases were given consideration. I recall many Ministers for Health emphasising hardship cases. How is a hardship case defined now? A tremendous number of people need medical attention but because the medical card is withdrawn they and their children are deprived of this essential service. The health boards and the executive officers can no longer plan to bring about some degree of perfection in the structure of our health services. They are disheartened. Every day there is a cut in some particular service. One thinks immediately of the transportation of the physically handicapped. They are now deprived of transport to clinics for treatment. If there are to be cuts those cuts should occur in areas where the incidence of hardship is lowest.

Sufferers from coeliac disease are undergoing a good deal of anxiety and frustration because of the failure with regard to the EEC directive on the labelling, presentation and advertising of foodstuffs. I am sure every Member has received representations about this. There is a failure both in the case of imported foodstuffs and the case of home manufactured goods to display clearly the contents of the particular foodstuff. This is of tremendous importance where gluten is concerned. The Minister must be aware that gluten content has been shown to increase the risk of cancer in patients with coeliac disease. I understand that the joint committee set up by this House has recommended that a directive on the packaging and labelling of foodstuffs be made mandatory. However, to relieve the anxiety and frustration of the people concerned, I hope the Minister will indicate his stand and the stand of the Government on this important issue, or are we to be dictated to from Brussels? This is urgent and I hope the Minister will convey to the Minister for Health forthwith that a statement must now be made by the Department in relation to safeguarding people suffering from coeliac disease.

It is difficult to make a worth-while contribution or make any suggestions to improve our health services because of the appalling lack of finance. We must look at the areas of urgency, one of which is mental illness. There is a lot to be desired in this area. This disease is on the increase. When people undergo treatment in a psychiatric hospital and are then discharged, there is no follow-up whatsoever to help those people to readjust themselves in the community. The result is that these patients are being discharged and, after a short period, because of this lack of follow-up they find themselves back in the mental hospital.

We should consider the idea of employing psychiatric nurses and training them specially for work outside hospital to help these people to readjust in the community. We should also establish more clinics in our general hospitals rather than having people going to the large mental hospitals. I have no doubt that many a person in urgent need of treatment is prevented from receiving it because of the ordeal of going to a large mental hospital. Therefore, it would be important for the Minister to establish out-clinics in general hospitals.

I am also anxious that more consideration be given by the Minister to involving people in that service. Here I am talking about the voluntary contribution of the many community service councils throughout the country who can help by inviting people who are suffering from mental illness to their homes, to community centres or other places of recreation. This is a part that the community can play and it would be a worth-while involvement for the people in the community associations.

I asked the Minister some time ago what he or the Government are doing about the report of the committee on non-accidental injuries to children. There are many people inquiring about this report and still children are being battered. I asked the Minister at the time if it was possible for hospitals to establish registers so that there would be some record of the number of children that are being abused. This is an area that does not require big finances. If a parent arrives at a hospital with her child and it is established that child has been abused, there should be some follow-up whereby some social worker or professional person would make contact with the home in question and, failing that, prosecution should be instituted. This phenomenon is on the upward trend, brought about by drunkenness, bad temper or other reasons, but it is the unfortunate child who suffers and little or nothing is being done to prevent such abuses. The report on this is with the Department and we on the health boards who have been calling for the implementation of this report should know what the Minister is doing in this matter.

There is another report where children are concerned. It is very easy to set up a commission to investigate something, have them report back and then bury the report in a file in some Department. I would inquire about the interim report of the task force on children at risk, which was submitted to the Department. I am aware also that the final report is with the Minister for Health. I would like to know what is being done about it. Is the Minister providing the moneys for the implementation of this report? Is there any hope that at least some of the report will be implemented next year?

It is easy to talk about the amount of vandalism around the country but I should like to know what the Government have done about this problem. It is their responsibility to combat it. There are many young boys and girls who are deprived of security in their homes and they are brought daily before our courts. We have district justices throwing their hands in the air and saying to the individual charged: "There is little or nothing I can do for you; I cannot put you into an institution because there is not one for you nor can I recommend you to a voluntary organisation that might help you". Voluntary involvement is dealt with in this report and there are people who are prepared to help by the establishment of day schools. The people of Cork have submitted a plan to the Department of Education for the establishment of such a school. It is envisaged that this school would be attended by boys and girls who cannot cope with the national school curriculum. Absence from school is the first indication of a young person going wrong.

I understand that the Department of Health is mainly responsible for the task force report, but I believe that the Departments of Justice and Education are also involved. I should like to know if the Government are coordinating the efforts of these Departments. Would information be made available to us as to what should be done in this regard in the new year? I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will convey to the Minister my views on this. There are many people willing to help in this field and I would not like to see them being discouraged at this stage because of the failure of the Minister to make a statement on this report.

Another matter that needs careful consideration is the question of the mentally retarded. Many of them are placed in institutions for training but, unfortunately, when they reach 18 they are discharged. There are no services available for them with the result that they are admitted to a mental hospital. It is sad to see a young person being admitted to a mental hospital. I know of hundreds of young people who, after leaving a training institution, are asked to spend the remainder of their lives in a mental hospital. Surely we could help such people. Our main aim should be to prevent them entering mental hospitals where they would be kept for the remainder of their lives.

Here, again, we must talk of voluntary community involvement but one could go overboard on voluntary involvement. The people involved in this kind of work need backup services; they need social workers and specialised teachers to help them provide essential services for such people. The Government should devote more money to voluntary involvement.

I appreciate the Deputy's comment and I should like to mention that next Monday I will be officially opening a housing scheme for Share, a group of young people who have built houses for the aged, the lonely and the homeless.

I welcome this and it proves my case. Young people are becoming involved in helping their own community. I know of the involvement and the anxiety of the Parliamentary Secretary in this regard but, unfortunately, this year the contributions to a number of community services, such as meals on wheels, were cut. We all realise the value of meals on wheels. That service is keeping old people out of institutions. We should realise that to keep an old person in an institution costs in the region of £43 per week and they are getting a meal at their door for as little as 20p. Old people are anxious to end their days at home, no matter how humble it might be. The voluntary involvement necessary in this regard cannot be effective unless we have the backup services, the doctors, nurses and social workers. I believe voluntary workers are saving the Southern Health Board a considerable amount of money at present.

I should like to know how many geriatricians we have. They are very important because they assess the health of old people on admission to hospital and they assess the conditions at home. After the condition of the person has been assessed, he is discharged and referred to the voluntary community services. People like that are needed if we are to keep our old people out of institutions. I believe that there are only three such people in the country and I should like to know how many there are. Geriatrics is a specialised field. We should give more attention to the employment of such people in our institutions.

I am talking about areas which are not costly but which are vital to the community, such as the pre-school service, which is the responsibility of the Department of Health. Pre-school groups are necessary for many reasons. Some women have to work in order to maintain the home and others have to visit clinics. These women should have somewhere to place their children during their absences. I welcome the development of pre-school groups but one must use a certain caution in regard to developments of this kind. I applaud the people who provide pre-school services but such services have a dangerous element. How many people realise that children may be placed in a building which is a fire hazard? It is all too easy for a person to start a pre-school group. All buildings chosen for this purpose should be inspected. I condemn the people who provide such a service for a quick cash return.

The Department of Health should direct the issuing of licences for the establishment of pre-school groups. It is always best to take action before it is too late. I have mentioned this subject on a number of occasions and I have experience of some places in which I would be most reluctant to place a child. I remember questioning the Minister on this matter. His reply was that this matter was being investigated. The Department should issue directives in regard to the buildings used for pre-school groups and the qualifications of the personnel who are in charge of the children.

Another aspect is that it is an area where it is possible to detect physical handicaps in children and that is why it is necessary to employ qualified personnel to take care of the children. I know the Parliamentary Secretary has a great interest in this subject. The position at present is that children are medically examined once a year. They are again examined on admission to school. When the late President Childers was Minister for Health he placed great emphasis on this subject. I maintain that children should be medically examined every six months over a two year period. Members of the medical profession who are involved in child care will agree with this.

I am concerned that the State has no control over private nursing homes. An obligation should be placed upon doctors attending private nursing homes to record the examinations of children over a two year period. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to stress the importance of this matter to the Minister. There is no point in spending a great deal of money on our health services without thinking about a return for it. Therefore, a proper health service must start with the care of children.

Last year I spoke about the commission that was established to combat poverty. I have great respect for the people who were appointed to that commission but, unfortunately, their work repeats what has been done by the various community associations and the National Community Service Council in Dublin.

Debate adjourned.
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