asked the Minister for Justice when it is intended to form the local security service units announced by the Taoiseach in June, 1974.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Local Security Service Units.
22.
It has been decided not to proceed for the present at any rate with the implementation of the arrangements for the setting up of the proposed security service.
Would the Minister say why he did not give me that information last week, when I put down a question to him?
The Deputy's question last week so far as I recall was in the context of vigilante groups. It was never proposed that there should be vigilante groups.
We should cut out the semantics. Certainly, I used the words "vigilante groups". I put two questions to the Minister. The Minister then denied that the Taoiseach ever made such a suggestion. Then I said "an assistant police organisation" and again the Minister denied that there was any such suggestion. Does the Minister say that he did not understand the question I was asking last week?
I was anxious that there should be no misunderstanding in the public mind because the Deputy asked questions about vigilantes in the context of questions put by another Deputy relating specifically to vigilante groups and it was important that the idea of vigilante groups should not be confused with this particular matter.
Would the Minister not agree that he was deliberately evasive because of the embarrassment that the Taoiseach's off-the-cuff suggestion made in 1974 was not implemented?
I can assure the Deputy that there was no embarrassment on my part as regards this. It was just, as I say, that it was extremely important to distinguish between the two concepts.
I want to pursue this even though I know I have just gone over the time. It is not my fault that the question was reached just before 3.30 p.m. Will the Minister agree that in June, 1974, in a debate on the Northern Ireland situation the Taoiseach said it was decided to set up in each city and town a security service unit based in local Garda stations who would report on any suspicious activities to the gardaí?
I agree that that proposal was suggested at that time. As I indicated to Deputy Andrews last year it was proposed in a different context, and, hopefully, the distressing context which gave rise to that proposal will not recur. This is not a subject we like to talk about because of the serious implications. The proposal the Deputy referred to was made in a different context.
That was not only a proposal, it was a decision conveyed to the House. Obviously, it was a decision which must have been examined, because in reply to a Parliamentary Question on 15th November, 1974, the Minister said he was not in a position then to make a statement on it. In reply to a question on 23rd January, 1975, he said that detailed arrangements for the setting up of such a force had been drawn up.
That was so.
That was in the context of the situation obtaining in 1974-75. Is the Minister aware that since then the Government have decided—I say that deliberately—that we are living in a state of national emergency? Have conditions so improved between 1974-75 and the declaration of the state of national emergency which still persists, as not to warrant the setting up of a force which was thought to be justified at that time?
If the Deputy reads the full reply to the question on 23rd January, 1975, he will see that I said that detailed arrangements for the setting up of such a force had been drawn up but the question of proceeding with the proposal is one that would have to be reviewed in the light of all the circumstances since the idea was first mooted. A review of the idea since it was first mooted has led us to the conclusion that, for the moment, it is not necessary to proceed further with it. There is nothing inconsistent with that decision and the necessity for declaring a state of emergency. The reasons for the declaration of the state of emergency were gone into in great detail in the course of the emergency debate.
Can we take it that conditions have improved beyond what obtained in 1974 and early 1975?
The particular context in which that proposal was made no longer exists.
Notwithstanding that we now have in existence a state of national emergency which was decided upon by the Government?
The Deputy is seeking to make the two things one and the same. They are not. That proposal was made in the context of a particular situation at that time which——
I am pursuing this deliberately because the Minister was deliberately evasive last week when I put the question to him.
I was not. I have already emphasised the importance of distinguishing this concept from the concept of vigilantes, which was the word unfortunately, and I am sure mistakenly, used by the Deputy in his supplementary on that day.
This decision was conveyed to the House within weeks after a series of bombings in Dublin. The state of emergency was declared within weeks after what appeared to the Government to be more serious bombings in Dublin. Could the Minister make a distinction between these two events?
If the Deputy recalls, it was pointed out in the debate on the state of emergency that the two events which led to the declaration of the state of emergency were climactic events to a series of serious events which had preceded them. They were the last straw.
The climax has been reached?
I sincerely hope so.
Will the Minister proceed to undeclare the national emergency?
When the time is ripe the Government will do so, and I hope it will be soon.
The remaining questions will appear on the Order Paper for the next sitting day of the Dáil.