asked the Minister for Justice if he will make available copies of the recent consultancy report received by him on the Garda Síochána; and if he will state (a) the cost of the survey (b) the terms of reference of the consultants and (c) the length of time the survey was in progress.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Garda Consultancy Report.
10.
The consultants' terms of reference which run to several paragraphs were circulated by me on 18th June, 1975 when I replied to a parliamentary question by the Deputy and they are in the Official Report for that day (Volume 282, column 875).
The assignment has not been fully completed but, in any case, it would be contrary to the normal practice both in the public and private sector to publish the findings of management consultants.
The cost of the survey will be of the order of £45,000. It will take roughly two years to complete from commencement in April, 1975.
Am I correct in interpreting the Minister as saying the report will be confidential to the Minister?
The Deputy is correct in saying that and that will be normal practice with regard to the consultancy report in both the public and private sectors. There are a number of considerations why confidentiality has to be maintained. For example, the report might contain references to individual posts or individual persons and it might be invidious to publish these in the overall scheme of the report. When the consultants are assessing the facts for their report they obtain information in confidence and unless there was such an assurance to the degree of co-operation necessary a complete full study might not be forthcoming. Of course there is a particular reason with regard to Garda matters in that the report necessarily has details of the strength of stations, manning and so on, and there would be certain implications which it would be undesirable to publish.
I understand the necessary confidentiality that the report must have and I appreciate that when the consultants were doing their work they got confidential information, but I want to know who is going to study and assess the report which is going to form the basis for the reorganisation of the Garda force for the years ahead?
There is a steering committee representing the public service and the force. They will be the people to whom the draft report will go in the first instance and it is in consultation with them that the final report will be prepared and it will be submitted to me and from my assessment the ultimate decision to implement will be mine. In its implementation I will have the fullest discussion with the persons who are going to be directly involved, the members of the Garda and the Garda Representative Body.
Could I ask the Minister if he would not consider it reasonable to make the report available to representatives of the Garda Representative Body? Surely the Minister will trust their capacity regarding confidentiality.
It is not a question of not trusting them. I do trust them completely in this matter. For the reason I have already indicated the report was prepared on the basis of confidentiality and on the basis of all such reports, that is that they are management consultantcy reports for submission to management in either the public or private sector, and it is standard practice that such reports are not made available to the people on the staff side.
I wonder if the Minister is aware of the opinions held by members of the Garda Síochána that not enough consultation took place at the lower level with the ordinary guards when this report was being compiled and that there is a certain amount of unrest and they believe now that they are going to be kept from seeing this document.
I am not so aware. The information I have is that the consultants in compiling the report had the fullest consultations and that there was no inhibition put on them by reason of the terms of the reference which were drawn in very wide terms and enabled them to go anywhere and see anybody they pleased in the Garda Síochána. Consequently they would exercise their professional judgement in carrying out their brief. They would have gone wherever they felt it necessary to go and consult with whomever they felt necessary.
I would refer the Minister to the November issue of the Garda Síochána magazine which specifically states in its editorial that there is dissatisfaction with the amount of consultation that took place. I hope the Minister when he gets the opportunity will see what is in the editorial and assess it.
I do not accept that the views in that editorial are official views or representative of the force as a whole. It is a representative body magazine. This view may be held and they are quite entitled to put it forward in their editorial. The information I have is that because of the terms of the reference, which were wide, it was a matter for the consultants to decide how to carry out their terms of reference and they made whatever consultations they felt were necessary to compile their report.