asked the Minister for Defence the number of army personnel sent on courses outside the State in each of the past three years; the location of each training centre; if it was a civilian or military base; the type of training involved; and the cost in each case.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Army Courses.
19.
Compilation in detail of the information sought would involve a disproportionate expenditure of official time. The general picture is, however, as follows.—
1. During the years 1974, 1975 and 1976 approximately 170 personnel were sent on courses abroad.
2. The number of courses was 86 of which 47 took place at military establishments and 39 at civilian establishments.
3. The courses were in Britain, the United States, France, Luxembourg, Holland, Italy and Sweden.
4. The military courses varied from a training course for Air Corps pilots of 2 weeks' duration in France in 1974 to a command and staff course of 13 months' duration in the United States in 1975-76.
5. The civilian courses varied from a signals course of 4 days' duration in England in 1974 to a parachute instructors course of 2 weeks' duration in England in 1976.
6. Under subhead AA of the Vote for Defence, which covers visits and courses at home and abroad, the expenditure in the period indicated in the question was:—
1974—£57,052
1975—£72,666
1976—£62,000 approximately.
Did the Minister say in the initial stages of his reply that it would be a waste of time to compile this?
I said no such thing. I told the Deputy that in order to compile the information requested by him it would involve a disproportionate expenditure of official time when the officers of the Department could more usefully exercise themselves at something more profitable.
Surely this information should be available on tap in every Department apart from the Department of Defence? Is the Minister telling me that the Department of Defence have not got on tap the type of information required considering the Minister gave some selective details of the information? I am not satisfied with the Minister's reply. Can he supply this information? If he does not supply it, I will have to extract it in another way.
Any questions within reason that the Deputy puts down will be answered.
This is a reasonable question. It is one which has been the subject of discussion in the House from time to time. Can the Minister indicate if the training for parachutists has been discontinued?
That is a separate question.
The question relates to the Army personnel sent on courses outside the State. I want to find out if a particular type of training was discontinued.
No type of training has been discontinued.
Question No. 20.
Can I get a full answer to my question? Is the Minister just going to give selective details?
I have given the Deputy the information in reply to the main text of his question. In order to go into the very great detail the Deputy suggests, would take a considerable amount of very useful and valuable time which can be ill afforded in my Department or in any State Department at the moment.
I am not satisfied.
This must be the Deputy's final question. We cannot debate these matters.
This might be the subject of an Adjournment debate yet.
That is immaterial to the Chair.
I again ask the Minister to supply the details or has he got them? Is there some reason why——
This is repetition.
Is there some reason why the Minister wants to conceal facts from the House? Is that the reason the Minister is not providing a reply to my question in detail?
Order.
It is ridiculous to say it would absorb the time of officials in his Department when this information is on tap in his Department as it is in every other Department.
I have given the Deputy the information I feel it is desirable for him to get.
Question No. 20.
Further arising——
The next question has been called.
I want to find out——
Deputy Dowling, please. I will not tolerate this conduct.
——what information the Minister is concealing——
The Deputy will resume his seat forthwith.
I wish to raise the subject matter of this question on the Adjournment——
I will communicate with the Deputy.
——in view of the unsatisfactory nature——
Order. The Deputy will resume his seat.
——of the Minister's reply.
Deputy Dowling.
You are protecting the Ministers all the time. Do not be protecting the Ministers. They are able to protect themselves.
If the Deputy persists with that kind of behaviour, he must accept the consequences.
You persist and we cannot do anything about it.
There is a point of principle involved here. It is a question of seeking information.
I have assisted the Deputy to the utmost of my ability.
Is there not some obligation to ensure that we get information? One can easily visualise the simplicity of this question when one knows that each Department has its accounting section. All training would be recorded in the accounting section and the information would only have to be gleaned from it.
The Deputy is opening up the matter again.