asked the Minister for Fisheries the unilateral conservation measures he proposes to take to protect Ireland's fishing industry pending agreement on the European Community's internal fishery regions.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Fishing Industry.
22.
Orders were made by me on the 16th of this month prohibiting boats of over 33 metres in registered length or having a total engine power of over 1,100 brake horse power from fishing in a designated area extending at least 50 miles from our baselines and also requiring vessels exceeding these limits to keep their fishing gear stowed when inside the designated area for a lawful purpose. The question of taking further unilateral measures for the conservation of our fish stocks is being kept under consideration.
Would the Minister indicate to the House how he proposes to implement these unilateral decisions as to weight, capacity and length of the shipping craft? How can he guarantee that the boats which will be fishing will be within the limits he has announced?
The Naval Service will be looking after that matter. Officials of the Department of Defence have looked at a further vessel in Denmark. A further fishery protection vessel will be delivered in November of this year. A further keel is being laid down and, wherever we buy vessels, we will be seeking a subvention of three-quarters from the Common Market authorities in respect of the purchase of such vessels.
The Minister will note that he has not answered my question. How does he know what weight the boat is, what length it is and what capacity it has?
Boats are registered. If a boat is recognised, the registration will give the length and all further details.
All these details must be forwarded in advance?
No. Obviously the Naval Service will look at a boat and see whether it is 33 metres in length or 1,100 brake horse power. They will board her, arrest her if necessary, and bring her to port.
If the Minister does not know in advance, he cannot know which boats to order. I want to come on to a more general question and leave the other matter to my colleagues. I want to ask the Minister if he is in a position to take a unilateral measure of this sort—which it obviously was—in relation to an exclusive conservation band? Does the Minister not recognise that the Government's position is totally inconsistent in that it says that it cannot take unilateral action on an exclusive band anyway subject to licensing arrangements such as we have always promoted?
No, that is not so, The Government are relying on The Hague Convention where it is laid down that it is permissible for member States to take unilateral action provided they have first made representations to the Commission. Other members are of opinion that this may not be so and we may be brought to the court of the Common Market to see if our contention is correct. We hold that it is correct.
The Minister is reported today as saying in some television report last night that the Government could not take unilateral action for the coastal band because this would be inconsistent with their obligations in the Community. Is that now the Government's position—that we will not be taking any such action because the Government have now changed their minds, if the Minister expressed himself precisely?
That is not the present position. The position is that we, as a Government, are seeking an exclusive 50-mile limit within the context of our signing the accession treaty within the Common Market. We shall strive for that through a series of very complicated measures. That is the present position. I foresee a long period of negotiations, perhaps up to two years, before this battle is finished.
Could the Minister give any indication of the percentage, in round terms, of boats which have been fishing in our waters from other countries which were over 110 ft?
I could not give such an expression of opinion but many of the French vessels from Brittany are smaller, not up to the size; many Dutch vessels are of that size and German vessels, when they fish, are of that size. I would not like to give an opinion on the number or percentage of vessels.
In other words, the Minister is telling us that he brought in this alleged conservation measure without realising exactly what its impact is.
I am not. The position is that this measure was brought in because the larger vessels have very much greater fishing capacity. They are the vessels that scoop the bottom of the sea and have been the cause of a reduction in fish stocks. This was a wise measure brought in unilaterally by the Government within our rights under The Hague Convention. We have taken that measure and hold ourselves in no way blameworthy for taking it.
Would the Minister agree with the commonly held opinion that the bulk of fishing inside our 50-mile limit is done now and will continue to be done by boats which are under 110 ft?
I do not so hold. I hold that boats of the larger size are far more damaging to fish stocks.
I want to bring in Deputy Blaney.
Just one last question. Can the Minister now reconcile his present position with his statement of some months ago that we could not in any circumstances defend a 50-mile limit?
I reconcile my position with that statement inasmuch as I have told the House and Deputy O'Kennedy that we are now taking steps to have an increase in our Naval Service so that we will be prepared and able to protect such a limit.
Might I ask for two points of clarification? First, even if all the protection vessels the Minister might wish for were available in the morning, where will the personnel to man them come from? Secondly, since his announcement and his elevation to the new post of Minister for Fisheries and his declaration of this 50-mile operation, is he aware that the rocks along the coast of Donegal are being scraped by vessels very much larger and very much smaller than those the Minister has in mind? Foreign vessels are up there by the score this very week.
If the Deputy has any information in that respect, I shall be glad if he will give it to me and I will give it to my colleague, the Minister for Defence, who will see that the Naval Service get on the job. I do not believe that the rocks on the Donegal coast are being scraped because we are making a patrol right around the coast of Ireland with our Naval Service vessels at present and if foreign vessels were as near shore as that I am certain they would be caught.
A final question from Deputy Gallagher.
What about personnel?
I have called Deputy Gallagher.
Will the Minister tell the House how can the Naval Service decide whether a boat is 100 ft. or 120 ft? Without some information, some form of registration, how they can tell whether they should arrest a boat or not?
I fear we are having repetition.
Every member of the Naval Service has his own good eyes to begin with and, after that, when the registration of a boat is read, there can be documents on board the Naval Service vessel or, in fact, books which will tell them what is the tonnage and length of that vessel. I believe that the officer in charge of the Naval Service would decide whether the vessel was over 33 metres in length.
The remaining questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.
The Minister was about to answer one of my questions.
I am sorry, I cannot go back now. There will be other opportunities.
The usual thing is that the Minister is allowed to answer when he wishes to do so.
I had called a Deputy.