It is proposed to take No. 10. By agreement, there will be no interruption for Private Members' Business.
Order of Business.
May I request the leave of the House to move the adjournment of the Dáil for the purpose of discussing a specific and important matter of public interest requiring urgent consideration, namely, the decision of the Minister for Fisheries yesterday to postpone further the fishery conservation measures which were due to come into effect from March 1st?
The Chair has received notice of this matter from Deputy Gallagher in accordance with Standing Order No. 30. One of the criteria which the Chair has to apply in determining whether the motion is one contemplated by Standing Orders is whether the matter requires "urgent consideration". I have given the Deputy's request careful thought Fishery conservation measures have been the subject of debates and questions here recently. The matter is an on-going one and a second suspension of the implementation of certain measures does not, in my view, create a situation that brings the matter within the category of motions contemplated by Standing Order No. 30. I regret, therefore, that I cannot accede to the Deputy's request.
If it does not, what does? Do you not recognise, Sir, that this is a matter of urgency and a consideration of importance to the public, a matter which developed only yesterday in its present form when the Minister for Fisheries announced in Brussels the further postponement of the Government's decision to limit access to our fishing waters? In the light of that event which happened only yesterday, and of its obvious urgency, and of its apparent public importance, will the Ceann Comhairle not reconsider his decision?
As I said, the Chair has given the matter full and sympathetic consideration. I have had the advice of much experienced staff in the matter and this is my decision. I have nothing further to add.
Would the Minister not be glad to have the views of this House on this important matter?
May I ask another question? This House is completely starved of information on what is happening at meetings in Brussels affecting a vital part of Irish interests and affecting many many thousands of our citizens in the winning of their livelihood. We find it difficult in the House, by the Taoiseach's own admission last week, to know to whom to direct parliamentary questions on this issue. Sometimes we are told it may be the Minister for Fisheries. Sometimes we are told it may be the Minister for Foreign Affairs. All this adds up to a matter of extreme importance to the Irish people not only in the context of our fisheries but also in the context of our relationships with our partners in the EEC. You said, Sir, that you had the benefit of advice from officials experienced in this matter. I suggest there is nobody more experienced in this matter than the people elected by the people to represent them.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
I am afraid the matter cannot claim priority on today's business.
A Cheann Comhairle, so far as your decision was based, among other things, on the fact that these conservation measures were on-going measures, would you not acknowledge that yesterday's decision was a new development in that the Minister had previously given a deadline at which it would expire? This is a new development which occurred only yesterday and surely that is not on-going. Conservation will continue for many years. In that sense it is on-going, but the decision taken yesterday was dated from yesterday only and the consequences of that, as is evident from the reports in the national papers this morning, are matters of urgent public importance. Surely it is not in any circumstances an on-going matter as defined by the Chair.
I have nothing further to add.
Before the Taoiseach leaves the House, in the light of the importance of this matter which I hope will be obvious to the Taoiseach if not to the Chair, would the Taoiseach be prepared to give public time to debate this important matter?
Suitable opportunities are provided, as the Deputy knows, through questions.
Will the Taoiseach provide time tomorrow?
No.
Will he provide it next Tuesday?
No.
Will he ever provide it, or will we ever know where we stand between these two Ministers?
Deputies
Hear, hear.
I am glad Deputy Lynch's colleagues are pleased to see him back.
(Interruptions.)
Order.
There is no need for Deputies to get excited. They know exactly the procedure of the House. It is long established. There is a recognised procedure for any issue that requires to be raised. The Opposition are aware of it and they can use it.
There is always the facility available to the Government when they think a matter is important enough, and if it does not come within Standing Orders, to make Government time available to discuss it. The Taoiseach now refuses to do that.
I have just got the request.
Do I take it from your reply, Sir, that civil servants are to be the sole arbiters as to what will or will not be discussed in this House?
The Chair accepts full responsibility for the ruling.
On the basis of advice from civil servants.
It is my ruling.
Deputy Gallagher asked a legitimate question. You mentioned the advice given to you and the question is: are the Members of this House to be guided by what civil servants say is their opinion? Are they to be the sole arbiters of what is of national importance?
It is my responsibility. I have already said that.
The people will not accept that.
In view of the fact that the Taoiseach said these matters can be appropriately discussed at Question Time, will the Chair allow debate on these issues as the Chair has consistently refused to do at Question Time? To quote the Chair: "It is not proper for debate." The Taoiseach takes the view that it is proper for debate at Question Time. How are we to establish our rights on these matters?
I did not say that. I said it could be raised by means of question.
Deputies know full well we cannot have debate at Question Time.
The Deputy has questions down today which he has not proceeded with.
The Deputy has just withdrawn a question on this subject.
This is a little playacting.
(Interruptions.)
Who is playacting? What about the references in Brussels by the Minister for Fisheries to doves fluttering in their nests?
I am not playacting in Brussels or anywhere else.